Is there a simple way to silence an area of audio under Performer,
actually modifying the audio data itself to contain (essentially)
all-zero sample values?

I'm making a language quizzing CD with a series of words and sentences
for me to translate. That means that it has hundreds of patches of near
silence that I'd like to force to be totally silent. Since there are
many of them, I'd like to do that by a very fast means, such as by
hilighting each such patch and hitting some sort of command-key. I can
think of several much more complicated ways of achieving that effect,
but those would be cumbersome for hundreds of such passages.

Also, it's important that it actually directly modify the raw audio data
itself, because I'd like to subsequently apply a little bit of
"presence" reverb to the result. It would be nice, but not necessary,
for it to apply a very fast (say tenth second) fade out and fade back in.

Anybody know of a fast way to do this?

--

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Gary Morrison wrote:

I'm making a language quizzing CD with a series of words and sentences
for me to translate. That means that it has hundreds of patches of near
silence that I'd like to force to be totally silent. Since there are
many of them, I'd like to do that by a very fast means, such as by
hilighting each such patch and hitting some sort of command-key. I can
think of several much more complicated ways of achieving that effect,
but those would be cumbersome for hundreds of such passages.

Look in the options for editing and find the one that doesn't close up
the gap when you cut out a section. Sometimes this is called "ripple
edit." Once you figure out how to enable this (it may be the default
setting), you can highlight the area that you want to be silent, use
whatever shortcut there is for "cut" and that's it.

"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
...
Is there a simple way to silence an area of audio under Performer,
actually modifying the audio data itself to contain (essentially) all-zero
sample values?

I'm making a language quizzing CD with a series of words and sentences for
me to translate. That means that it has hundreds of patches of near
silence that I'd like to force to be totally silent. Since there are many
of them, I'd like to do that by a very fast means, such as by hilighting
each such patch and hitting some sort of command-key. I can think of
several much more complicated ways of achieving that effect, but those
would be cumbersome for hundreds of such passages.

Also, it's important that it actually directly modify the raw audio data
itself, because I'd like to subsequently apply a little bit of "presence"
reverb to the result. It would be nice, but not necessary, for it to
apply a very fast (say tenth second) fade out and fade back in.

Anybody know of a fast way to do this?

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

Audition (Ex-Cool Edit Pro) will do what you want with a single mouse click
after highlighting the area you want silenced. I believe it is also
possible, although I haven't tried it, to create a 'script' to apply the
fade-out and fade-in you describe.

Tell me more about "presence reverb" applied to silence. How does that
work, and what does it achieve?

Steve King

Gary Morrison wrote:
I'm making a language quizzing CD with a series of words and sentences
for me to translate. That means that it has hundreds of patches of
near
silence that I'd like to force to be totally silent. Since there are
many of them, I'd like to do that by a very fast means, such as by
hilighting each such patch and hitting some sort of command-key. I
can
think of several much more complicated ways of achieving that effect,
but those would be cumbersome for hundreds of such passages.

Sounds like the perfect application of a "gate" function
where you can adjust the threshold so that anything below
some selected level (like -30dB, etc.) gets "muted". Once
you set the threshold properly, you can apply the effect to
the whole file automatically without manually selecting
each section.

Some software like CoolEdit/Audition has a single function
called "silence" which will zero out the highlighted area(s).
And you can set up any keyboard key to apply any function
using the "Favorites". Likely other software has similar
functionality.

Steve King wrote:
"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
...
Is there a simple way to silence an area of audio under Performer,

Audition (Ex-Cool Edit Pro) will do what you want with a single mouse click

So you're suggesting that not only he change his program of choice, but
also change his computer platform?

Perhaps Performer has this same function, or as Richard suggested, a
gate.

Richard Crowley wrote:

Sounds like the perfect application of a "gate" function
where you can adjust the threshold so that anything below
some selected level (like -30dB, etc.) gets "muted".

I am in fact using a noise gate (or actually a downward expander), but I
can't set high enough a threshold without making the audio sound bad. I
need to put a little human intelligence into it.



Some software like CoolEdit/Audition has a single function
called "silence" which will zero out the highlighted area(s).

Soundtrack Pro, part of Final Cut Studio, has that, but, for unrelated
reasons, it's not practical to use it for what I'm doing here.

So far the best idea I've had for doing what I'm trying to do is to
apply a plug-in that has an input our output volume setting, and set
that input volume to zero.

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

Steve King wrote:

Audition (Ex-Cool Edit Pro) will do what you want with a single mouse click
after highlighting the area you want silenced.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I kinda need to stick with Performer
for this, even if only because I've already begun the project under
Performer and I have everything all set up to work under Performer.
That plus I have a nice setup for creating the resulting CD from the
Performer project.



Tell me more about "presence reverb" applied to silence. How does that
work, and what does it achieve?

Oh, nothing particularly special: Basically a small-room sort of
reverb, just to keep it from sounding too bare and dead. That is, the
sort of thing you'd barely notice if listening casually and uncritically.

--

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will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

In article ,
Gary Morrison wrote:

Is there a simple way to silence an area of audio under Performer,
actually modifying the audio data itself to contain (essentially)
all-zero sample values?

Fastest way I can think of from within DP4 is to use Strip Silence
(Audio-Strip Silence), tweak the boundaries by hand, then Merge
Soundbites across the entire track so you emerge with one big soundbite.

e

Eric wrote:

Fastest way I can think of from within DP4 is to use Strip Silence
(Audio-Strip Silence), tweak the boundaries by hand, then Merge
Soundbites across the entire track so you emerge with one big soundbite.

Yeah, that was one of the difficult ways I knew of. Thanks for the
suggestion though!

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

Is there a simple way to silence an area of audio under Performer,
actually modifying the audio data itself to contain (essentially)
all-zero sample values?

Yes, there are several ways to do this. One would be to select the
regions you want muted & delete them, Cmnd-X. Then place a quick fade
at each edge of remaining audio. Then Merge them all into one new file
with the merge command, Opt-Shift-M. Or you can draw automation volume
curves arouns all the sections you want muted. This will allow the
quick fade out & in that you want.

Also, it's important that it actually directly modify the raw audio
data
itself, because I'd like to subsequently apply a little bit of
"presence" reverb to the result.

You don't need to actually modify the audio file in order to add the
reverb. However, if that's what you really want to do, bounce to disk
will create a new audio file containing your volume automation, or if
you opt for deleting method, merge will do the same thing.

Scott Fraser

"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
...
Richard Crowley wrote:

Sounds like the perfect application of a "gate" function
where you can adjust the threshold so that anything below
some selected level (like -30dB, etc.) gets "muted".

I am in fact using a noise gate (or actually a downward expander), but
I can't set high enough a threshold without making the audio sound
bad. I need to put a little human intelligence into it.

Maybe record in a more quiet location so you have a
good dynamic range to work with.

On Sun, 14 May 2006 10:18:03 -0500, "Steve King"
wrote:


Audition (Ex-Cool Edit Pro) will do what you want with a single mouse click
after highlighting the area you want silenced.

Or after you have selected and run any function, hitting F3 repeats it
as many times as needed.

I believe it is also
possible, although I haven't tried it, to create a 'script' to apply the
fade-out and fade-in you describe.

I haven't figured out any way to assign a hot key to a script, but if
you create a favorite, you can assign a hot key to it.

Julian

Richard Crowley wrote:

Maybe record in a more quiet location so you have a
good dynamic range to work with.

Most of what I need to get rid of is not as much background noise as
fairly quiet (but not quiet enough for the noise gate) noises coming
from the actual source itself (e.g., swallowing, inhaling, and such).

--

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Scott Fraser wrote:

You don't need to actually modify the audio file in order to add the
reverb.

As I recall, the automation I apply would be, in effect, applied to the
output of the reverb rather than the input.



However, if that's what you really want to do, bounce to disk
will create a new audio file containing your volume automation, or if
you opt for deleting method, merge will do the same thing.

Does bouncing to disk work on a track-wise basis, or a soundbite basis?
I would need it to be applied to a soundbite. (I'm intentionally
creating a very large number of tracks, so that I can quiz myself better
by setting my CD player to play them back randomly.)

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
...
Steve King wrote:

Audition (Ex-Cool Edit Pro) will do what you want with a single mouse
click after highlighting the area you want silenced.

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I kinda need to stick with Performer
for this, even if only because I've already begun the project under
Performer and I have everything all set up to work under Performer. That
plus I have a nice setup for creating the resulting CD from the Performer
project.



Tell me more about "presence reverb" applied to silence. How does that
work, and what does it achieve?

Oh, nothing particularly special: Basically a small-room sort of reverb,
just to keep it from sounding too bare and dead. That is, the sort of
thing you'd barely notice if listening casually and uncritically.

Oops. Sorry. I didn't notice the reference to Performer. If their isn't
something similar to what I described in performer I's be surprised. About
the reverb --- something that doesn't call attention to itself it sometimes
a good thing, but I'll have to apply some reverb to a silent clip to see
what that sounds like.

Steve King

As I recall, the automation I apply would be, in effect, applied to
the
output of the reverb rather than the input.

Not if the reverb is on a post fade aux. Then it would decay naturally
after the clip has faded out.

Does bouncing to disk work on a track-wise basis, or a soundbite
basis?

Bounce to disk will include as much or as little as you select, meaning
it can include multiple tracks and/or multiple soundbites within one
track.

I would need it to be applied to a soundbite. (I'm intentionally
creating a very large number of tracks, so that I can quiz myself
better
by setting my CD player to play them back randomly.)

I'm not sure what you mean because I think you're referring to tracks
as CD ID markers not as multitrack channels. Digital Performer has a
number of ways to accomplish just about anything, so I'm sure you can
get what you want. I'm just not sure exactly what you're trying to do,
although I suspect it's about playlist manipulation rather than
multitrack bouncing or multiple soundbite rendering.

Scott Fraser

Steve King wrote:
"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
. ..
Steve King wrote:

Tell me more about "presence reverb" applied to silence. How does that
work, and what does it achieve?

Oh, nothing particularly special: Basically a small-room sort of reverb,
just to keep it from sounding too bare and dead. That is, the sort of
thing you'd barely notice if listening casually and uncritically.

Oops. Sorry. I didn't notice the reference to Performer. If their isn't
something similar to what I described in performer I's be surprised. About
the reverb --- something that doesn't call attention to itself it sometimes
a good thing, but I'll have to apply some reverb to a silent clip to see
what that sounds like.

The idea here is that you are applying the reverb to the signal AFTER
the gating. This hides the abrupt closing of the gate. Normally the
gate will cut off the tail of the speech as it drops down to the noise
floor... adding a touch of fake reverb will replace that tail with a new
one. It can really reduce the "unnaturalness" of the gate.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
Steve King wrote:
"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
.. .
Steve King wrote:

Tell me more about "presence reverb" applied to silence. How does that
work, and what does it achieve?

Oh, nothing particularly special: Basically a small-room sort of
reverb,
just to keep it from sounding too bare and dead. That is, the sort of
thing you'd barely notice if listening casually and uncritically.

Oops. Sorry. I didn't notice the reference to Performer. If their isn't
something similar to what I described in performer I's be surprised.
About
the reverb --- something that doesn't call attention to itself it
sometimes
a good thing, but I'll have to apply some reverb to a silent clip to see
what that sounds like.

The idea here is that you are applying the reverb to the signal AFTER
the gating. This hides the abrupt closing of the gate. Normally the
gate will cut off the tail of the speech as it drops down to the noise
floor... adding a touch of fake reverb will replace that tail with a new
one. It can really reduce the "unnaturalness" of the gate.
--scott

Aha. Claro.

Steve King

Steve King wrote:

About
the reverb --- something that doesn't call attention to itself it sometimes
a good thing, but I'll have to apply some reverb to a silent clip to see
what that sounds like.

Well, the point is that reverb tails can span from a sounding part of
the audio into a silenced passage.

--

(Preferably reply to the newsgroup, please. If you reply by Email, I
will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

Scott Fraser wrote:

As I recall, the automation I apply would be, in effect, applied to
the
output of the reverb rather than the input.

Not if the reverb is on a post fade aux. Then it would decay naturally
after the clip has faded out.

I need the reverb to be placed into the soundbites themselves, since
I'll be exporting those soundbites to become the tracks of the CD.



I'm not sure what you mean because I think you're referring to tracks
as CD ID markers not as multitrack channels.

Yes, each soundbite I'm creating, of which there are upwards of a
hundred, will become a track on the resulting CD.

So, in short, this isn't a typical mixdown kind of scenario.

--

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will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

Scott Dorsey wrote:

The idea here is that you are applying the reverb to the signal AFTER
the gating. This hides the abrupt closing of the gate.

Yes, indeed that's the idea.

However, I'm using a downward expander rather a really abrupt gate, but
yes, your interpretation of what I'm trying to do is correct.

--

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will sincerely try to receive your message, but it will probably get
buried in spam.)

"Gary Morrison" wrote in message
...
Steve King wrote:

About the reverb --- something that doesn't call attention to itself it
sometimes a good thing, but I'll have to apply some reverb to a silent
clip to see what that sounds like.

Well, the point is that reverb tails can span from a sounding part of the
audio into a silenced passage.

--

Yes. Someone with their brain in gear, unlike myself when I posted that,
explained that that was what you wanted to do.

This whole thread reminds me of a lesson learned long ago. When there is no
ready way to do something automatically, just buckling down and doing it
manually may be the best choice. Even with a hundred tracks, you could have
been done with the project in a few hours. I was at a friend's studio the
other day. He is a composer who positions himself as a high-end sound
designer for corporate and documentary projects. We were talking about
removing sibilance, as he was messing with a De-Esser. I asked him if I
could try something on the about five minute male problem narration track.
I manually treated each offending s-sound. It took about 15 minutes. About
the same time that he spent tweaking the black box. We both agreed that
mine was a more pleasing solution. Of course it could have gone the other
way, too.

Steve King

I need the reverb to be placed into the soundbites themselves, since
I'll be exporting those soundbites to become the tracks of the CD.

In this case you'll need to do a bounce to disk then, rather than a
merge. Again, there are two ways to do it in DP. (1) Make your last
insert post fade & place the reverb plugin in that insert, with the
wet/dry mix determining the amount of reverb. The decays will trail
into the silences. Bounce that track to disk. (2) Send from your audio
track to a post fade aux which has your reverb inserted fully wet. Set
the amount of desired reverb with the aux fader level & set the output
of that aux to match that of your channel containing the audio clips.
Select both tracks for the bounce to disk operation. Same result,
slightly more effort, which in this case yields you no real benefit.
With multiple tracks to mix, this would be a preferable approach.

Yes, each soundbite I'm creating, of which there are upwards of a
hundred, will become a track on the resulting CD.
So, in short, this isn't a typical mixdown kind of scenario.

It was confusing because in Digital Performer a "Track" refers to a
linear mono or stereo audio 'voice' containing soundbites arranged in a
time line. In your case this one Track will consist of what will
eventually become numerous CD "Tracks". Same terminology to mean
different things in different programs.

Scott Fraser