In response to an inquiry about muddy sounding mixes, one person wrote:

There is no such thing as a fake instrument. There are acoustic and
electronic instruments.

Another guy wrote:

THATS BULL CRAP! FAKE OR REAL IF ITS PANNED HARD RIGHT YOU SHOULD
HEAR THAT PAN. GET PRO TOOLS MAN! I steped up from Cubase SX on an
edirol audio card and wow! PT just outshines the old setup!

Another guy wrote:

I am sure that SOMEBODY will violently disagree, but the BBE Sonic
Maximizer Plug-in can do wonders especially if it can be used on
individual instrument tracks...


It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

I had to de-lurk to answer this (I've been reading since Gabe was
posting).

My take on this is summed up by a story a friend of mine told me about
his
teenage son and his friends. He has been a professional musician since
the 60's.
At a baseball game, his son's friends were all telling him how they
wanted to
be a musician like him. He was suprised, because his experience was that
none
of (other than his son) played an instrument. After some questions he
understood that they were talking about creating CD "mixes", like DJs.
They all rip "mixes" and trade CDs. That's what they think a musician
does.

If you think music is something you extract from a CD, then all this
talk about
microphones and rooms is gibberish at best. This concept of music as
something
that is manipulated rather than created is a big part of the present,
and
probably the future for a while. This also goes for "composers" who
build MIDI
sequences of sophisticated orchestra sample CDs as the final product
instead
of templates for eventual recording sessions, in the hope that is sounds
just
like a "real" orchestra.

What these people and those who record acoustic instruments have in
common is
that they use recording equipment to "organize" the sounds they
"capture". But
the 2 user groups have very different needs and goals, even though they
use
the same hardware and many of the same techiques.

Don't confuse the guy who slaps a coat on the side of the barn with
the guy who does portraits and landscapes.

Henry Salvia

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message...

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.


Why do you come here? TO PARTY Duuuuuuuuuude!!

If you leave I'll have to drive to Canada and... and... um... well....
ask you not to abandon the asylum just yet. I don't know about
anyone else, but I do believe that I am seeing a resurgence of
interest in 'the real thing'. Over the past six months the studio
biz has swung towards an increase for me. It appears people
are tiring of beeing swooned by low dollar, errr.... excuse me
wannabes that claim to do things they really can't... at least it
seems that way. Potential clients are once again looking at
hiring session players and aren't so blasted concerned about
what cool looking 'plug ins' we have. I have only lost one client
to a home studio in the past 6 months, and that's after they had
recorded everything but vocals. (I think they'd rather be in a more
altered state when they track those and I don't go there often any
more, so this one doesn't concern me). If this keeps up, all may
not be lost to home computers after all.

Anyway... after all these years, your input is still valued by me.

--
David Morgan (MAMS)
http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com
Morgan Audio Media Service
Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901
_______________________________________
http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

I don't know about anyone else, but I do believe that I am seeing a
resurgence of interest in 'the real thing'.


Yes, I think there is hope. Even the average listener is starting to
miss the quality of music that used to exist. (yes, there is quality new
music, but not very much).

http://channels.netscape.com/celebri...13.htm&sc=1403

Many fans also say they just don't like what they're hearing. It may
not be surprising to hear older fans say music just isn't what it
used to be when they were growing up. But the poll also found that 49
percent of music fans ages 18-to-34 - the target audience for the
music business - say music is getting worse.

Interesting assessment, Henry. Sad, but much of it so true...

Julian



On Fri, 03 Feb 2006 21:32:49 -0800, Henry Salvia
wrote:

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

I had to de-lurk to answer this (I've been reading since Gabe was
posting).

My take on this is summed up by a story a friend of mine told me about
his
teenage son and his friends. He has been a professional musician since
the 60's.
At a baseball game, his son's friends were all telling him how they
wanted to
be a musician like him. He was suprised, because his experience was that
none
of (other than his son) played an instrument. After some questions he
understood that they were talking about creating CD "mixes", like DJs.
They all rip "mixes" and trade CDs. That's what they think a musician
does.

If you think music is something you extract from a CD, then all this
talk about
microphones and rooms is gibberish at best. This concept of music as
something
that is manipulated rather than created is a big part of the present,
and
probably the future for a while. This also goes for "composers" who
build MIDI
sequences of sophisticated orchestra sample CDs as the final product
instead
of templates for eventual recording sessions, in the hope that is sounds
just
like a "real" orchestra.

What these people and those who record acoustic instruments have in
common is
that they use recording equipment to "organize" the sounds they
"capture". But
the 2 user groups have very different needs and goals, even though they
use
the same hardware and many of the same techiques.

Don't confuse the guy who slaps a coat on the side of the barn with
the guy who does portraits and landscapes.

Henry Salvia

I saw a report on the news last night - and I don't have the exact
numbers - but:
it appears that 9x% of the population thinks downloading for free is
bad and 58% of the people think music is getting worse. We've finally
reached the more then 1/2! Wahoooo!!!!

I think music is a bit like the movies these days. 80 Jillion to make a
film - and to make it good they only needed to spend 15K on a script!

In response to Henry's post I wanted to add a similar experience.I
lived in a townhouse community, and I guy my age (50's) who knew that I
was a musician and had a home studio, came up to me with some
"exciting" news. He said" I'm making my own cd!". he looked proud and
pumped up. When I questioned his new skills, he explained that he had
learned how to "download" all kinds of songs and music from the
internet...
On a video production forum that I frequent, there are alway guys
posting questions on the audio section on how to create "orchestration"
by programs or plug in's.I reccomended to one of these guys that he
look for somebody who actually knew how to PLAY a musical
instrument.What a novel idea.
Bruce yarock

"Turntable DRAG?
I didn't know turntables were into cross-dressing!
Anyway!
Nobody pays for software or pretty much any digital media anymore. "

and our school systems are more interested in sports and not the arts
and we wage war while our society goes to the cheap (ie walmart)
our schools are collapsing and we teach only to pass
a standarized student with no real understanding
and the riaa sues

garbage in, garbage out
long live king george and his cronies

Schultz:" It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. "

Important, but.... eminently changeable with......

Schultz:" It certainly doesn't have anything to do with the way the
instrument is played. "

again nice... but not subject to the old punch in restraints with....

Schultz:" The arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it."

To me the arrangement is a VERY large factor, and eminently changeable
with..... with...

Schultz:"It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the
recording. It's not about mic placement."

Well you have to get use a decent mic to get a good clean signal out to
record, but I think it is amusing all the time spent in this forum
talking about mic specifications. I would submit to you that there are
very few people here who could identify all the mics used in a mix
after the fact by listening. That is the Pepsi challenge. It probably
****ing off the guy who spent $2000 on a mic, that Springstein can get
commercial results from a lowly SM58.

Shultz:" It's not even about mix decisions."

Of course it is all about mix decisions!... that are incredibly
powerful and flexible...because of the....because of the....

Schultz "Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE. "

BINGO. All the things you said ring true...but would you pass me my
latest software update please????

Schultz" The inmates have the keys to the asylum"

This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.

In article .com,
wrote:

This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.

I don't find it threatening so much as sad. It's a sign people don't really
know what real instruments sound like any more. If they don't know, they
won't care.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

wrote in news:1139060949.799096.194070
@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

and our school systems are more interested in sports and not the arts
and we wage war while our society goes to the cheap (ie walmart)
our schools are collapsing and we teach only to pass
a standarized student with no real understanding
and the riaa sues

My local middle school is full of performing arts fanatics. The school has
somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 students in grades 6-8 (11, 12, and 13
year olds). There are more than 200 in just the sixth grade band. They
perform in the gym on a basketball court and occupy half the room from
under one basket to under the other and all the way to the wall. Parents
are packed into the other side and up the bleachers to hear them.

And there are two more bands (total 550 students), three orchestras (450
students) and five choruses (400 students), plus honor groups. Toss in
theatre arts and 2/3 of the school participate in performing arts.

And then there's the high school with six string orchestras...

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in news:3FUEf.249431
$OU5.170707@clgrps13:

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It
certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

Nonsense. Of course it's the performance. If you lose focus of that
essential fact then depression sets in. The software is just another
suite of tools to change the performance, no different from a compressor
or equalizer.

People have always used tools incorrectly to destroy performances. More
tools, more options make more ways to screw it up. Also provides more
tools for the educated and attentive to improve or repair.

Software doesn't kill mixes, people do.

"My local middle school is full of performing arts fanatics."

and what rich metro area are you in???

here in the belly of the whale,
they have cut all funding,
the schools should be replaced because the buildings are collapsing
around the students
funding is going into football and basketball
as that is what they see on tv

no string intruments in the music programs. they cost to much!!!

David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

Why do you come here? TO PARTY Duuuuuuuuuude!!

If you leave I'll have to drive to Canada and... and... um... well....
ask you not to abandon the asylum just yet.

No ****. Right now I can't even find my keys.

But we could carpool to Canada.

--
ha

Carey Carlan wrote:

My local middle school is full of performing arts fanatics. The school has
somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 students in grades 6-8 (11, 12, and 13
year olds). There are more than 200 in just the sixth grade band. They
perform in the gym on a basketball court and occupy half the room from
under one basket to under the other and all the way to the wall. Parents
are packed into the other side and up the bleachers to hear them.

And there are two more bands (total 550 students), three orchestras (450
students) and five choruses (400 students), plus honor groups. Toss in
theatre arts and 2/3 of the school participate in performing arts.

And then there's the high school with six string orchestras...

This is all wonderful, but I assure you, this is not the norm right now
in the USA, and especially not the norm where this isn't money in the
neighborhood. I won't bore you with the regional details here, but the
direction is not good right now, and hasn't been for about a decade.

--
ha

wrote in message
ups.com...
"My local middle school is full of performing arts fanatics."

and what rich metro area are you in???

here in the belly of the whale,
they have cut all funding,
the schools should be replaced because the buildings are collapsing
around the students
funding is going into football and basketball
as that is what they see on tv

no string intruments in the music programs. they cost to much!!!

We don't need performing arts anymore.
We just teach kids to "feel good about themselves".
Its cheaper than drugs.

wrote:

Schultz" The inmates have the keys to the asylum"

This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.



Wouldn't have to be, if the inmates had the slightest ****ing clue what
they're doing, but all you have to do is read this group for a couple
weeks to realize they don't.

Besides, what do you consider "old guard?" Anyone who remembers how to
position a microphone on a real instrument? Anyone who can hear the
difference between quality equipment and music store crap? Anyone who
knows enough about how gear works to be able to solve simple problems?
Why the hell would anyone with actual skills and knowledge feel
threatened by obvious ignorance and incompetence?

Here's a new flash for you: the people you denigrate all use the same
gee-whiz digitoys you do (or considerably better), PLUS having the
benefit of having tried other, time-honoured ways. Sometimes a new
approach is better. Sometimes the new way falls short and the material
is better served by an existing approach. It is more than a bit
presumptuous for those with little or no experience with so-called
"traditional" methods to declare their approach "better." How can they
know?

It's possible to recognize deficiencies in new technologies without
being a Luddite.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"Henry Salvia" wrote in message
...

What these people and those who record acoustic instruments have in
common is
that they use recording equipment to "organize" the sounds they
"capture". But
the 2 user groups have very different needs and goals, even though they
use
the same hardware and many of the same techiques.

Don't confuse the guy who slaps a coat on the side of the barn with
the guy who does portraits and landscapes.


Maybe I'm still idealistic but I see no reason why the two 'sides' of this
issue can't inform one another.

jb

wrote:

Schultz" The inmates have the keys to the asylum"


This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.



Shultz:"Wouldn't have to be, if the inmates had the slightest ****ing
clue what they're doing, but all you have to do is read this group for
a couple
weeks to realize they don't. "

I'm laughing my ass off that my little play on words set you off so
much! Sounds like you've spent way too much time recording way too much
bad music. Got your goat again!

Schultz, you are spending way too much time your time "in the control
room making even bad news sound good ". It is really stressing you
out. I don't waste my time on **** that sounds bad to begin with, maybe
move that $2,000 mic around a bit and that band will start to play in
tune. LOL.

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Turntable DRAG?
I didn't know turntables were into cross-dressing!
Anyway!
Nobody pays for software or pretty much any digital media anymore. "

and our school systems are more interested in sports and not the arts
and we wage war while our society goes to the cheap (ie walmart)
our schools are collapsing and we teach only to pass
a standarized student with no real understanding
and the riaa sues

garbage in, garbage out
long live king george and his cronies


The question for the digital artist is 'how do you redeem garbage?'

jb

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:bo7Ff.163187$AP5.111961@edtnps84...
wrote:

Schultz" The inmates have the keys to the asylum"

This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.



Wouldn't have to be, if the inmates had the slightest ****ing clue what
they're doing, but all you have to do is read this group for a couple
weeks to realize they don't.


Even teenagers learn things, whether they want to or not.

jb

reddred wrote:

Even teenagers learn things, whether they want to or not.

Yeah, but by the time I learned things, I wasn't a teenager any more.
Thank God.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

wrote:

I'm laughing my ass off that my little play on words set you off so
much!


Wow, good for you. You managed to irritate someone. And this *pleases*
you...

I guess I know how seriously to take your "contributions" from now on.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

"reddred" wrote:

Even teenagers learn things, whether they want to or not.


If my teenager spouts stupidity while being dismissive to those
deserving of her respect, we talk.

--
"It CAN'T be too loud... some of the red lights aren't even on yet!"
- Lorin David Schultz
in the control room
making even bad news sound good

(Remove spamblock to reply)

Lorin David Schultz wrote:

Besides, what do you consider "old guard?" Anyone who remembers how to
position a microphone on a real instrument?

Why bother with that? We have soft synths for everything, and anyone
can play a keyboard. Say, how do you hook this midi anyway? I connected
the OUTs together and I don't hear any sound. Does anyone else have
this problem?

Anyone who can hear the
difference between quality equipment and music store crap?

Well, that's a little harder. The hard part is to sort out what you
think you (or the music store salesman) know with what's really true.

Anyone who
knows enough about how gear works to be able to solve simple problems?

All problems are pretty simple, it's just that so many of the simple
solutions are wrong.

Why the hell would anyone with actual skills and knowledge feel
threatened by obvious ignorance and incompetence?

Because they have more money than I do, at least to spend on imporiving
their setup so that their recordings will sound professional.

"Scott Dorsey" wrote in message
...
reddred wrote:

Even teenagers learn things, whether they want to or not.

Yeah, but by the time I learned things, I wasn't a teenager any more.
Thank God.
--scott

Yeah that pretty much sums it up. But there were people who bothered to say
smart things to me and even if I tried not to, I listened. Some people don't
listen, but I can't imagine they'll be making music in ten years, maybe
they'll be in sales or dentistry.

jb

"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in message
news:Wj8Ff.163199$AP5.129965@edtnps84...
"reddred" wrote:

Even teenagers learn things, whether they want to or not.


If my teenager spouts stupidity while being dismissive to those
deserving of her respect, we talk.


Yeah, that's my point. They have to be coming around for some reason. If
they weren't trying to solve a problem that they don't even know how to
approach, they wouldn't be here. Of course kids are going to question
everything and be jerks. It sucks when they come to the bar you hang out in,
but they are definately looking for something, and they think it's here.

jb

wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

Schultz" The inmates have the keys to the asylum"


This can be a bit threatening to the old guard watching it.



Shultz:"Wouldn't have to be, if the inmates had the slightest ****ing
clue what they're doing, but all you have to do is read this group for
a couple
weeks to realize they don't. "

I'm laughing my ass off that my little play on words set you off so
much! Sounds like you've spent way too much time recording way too much
bad music. Got your goat again!


That's noble of him. Even trolls like you should have fun every now and
then.

Predrag

reddred wrote:

The question for the digital artist is 'how do you redeem garbage?'

One does not redeem garbage; one takes the garbage out.

There's no reason digital art can't be good art. The "democratization"
of digital art allows many who are not at all artists to be faux artists
among themselves (sic) g.

--
ha

wrote:

Schultz, you are spending way too much time your time "in the control
room making even bad news sound good ".

So you think bad news should sound bad?

It is really stressing you
out. I don't waste my time on **** that sounds bad to begin with, maybe
move that $2,000 mic around a bit and that band will start to play in
tune. LOL.

Reading here lately one might get the idea that plenty of strutters lack
clue ****ing _one_ what it takes to get decent sound _right away_. No
retakes, no second chances, no digital turd polishing, just get it right
right now, because before you can ask, "What plug-in will turn this pile
of **** into lovely audio??" that audio is out for broadcast, sometimes
even as it is being captured.

The answer to a lot of this turd polishing angst is "**** cleaner". But
many erstwhile turd polishers seem to have no interest in learning how
to wipe their ass before going to the lunch room. It doesn't seem to
occur to them that effort invested _in front of the mics_ can be worth
more than a truckload of the finest plug-ins.

--
ha

Predrag"That's noble of him. Even trolls like you should have fun every
now and
then.

Predrag

There you go, kettle calling the pot black again! Your two cents are
worth I'm sure buys a decent lure in bum**** egypt or whatever little
cow town you are from. If you don't have anything of value to say why
don't you shut up? LOL. Maybe be that fishhook in the side of your
mouth is keeping it open.

"hank alrich" wrote in message
.. .
reddred wrote:

The question for the digital artist is 'how do you redeem garbage?'

One does not redeem garbage; one takes the garbage out.

There's no reason digital art can't be good art. The "democratization"
of digital art allows many who are not at all artists to be faux artists
among themselves (sic) g.


Maybe in their own little pond they can be as big as they want. But really
what I mean is this: we're just surrounded by trash. I mean, most stuff now
is trash when you buy it. So if you're going to be a 'sampling artist' or
even someone who uses snippets and samples, what can you take from
essentially lame music and can you make something worthwhile out of it? What
can you make out of stuff our wasteful society leaves behind? One of my
little obsessions anyway.

jb

wrote in message
oups.com...
Predrag"That's noble of him. Even trolls like you should have fun every
now and
then.

Predrag

There you go, kettle calling the pot black again! Your two cents are
worth I'm sure buys a decent lure in bum**** egypt or whatever little
cow town you are from. If you don't have anything of value to say why
don't you shut up? LOL. Maybe be that fishhook in the side of your
mouth is keeping it open.


I hear a giant sucking sound coming from your direction.

jb

reddred wrote:

Maybe in their own little pond they can be as big as they want. But really
what I mean is this: we're just surrounded by trash. I mean, most stuff now
is trash when you buy it. So if you're going to be a 'sampling artist' or
even someone who uses snippets and samples, what can you take from
essentially lame music and can you make something worthwhile out of it? What
can you make out of stuff our wasteful society leaves behind? One of my
little obsessions anyway.

I think the notion of "collage music" isn't a bad one. After all, I spent
many years trying to take pieces of thrown out consumer electronics and
making something worthwhile out of it, why not do the same for music?

The thing is, it's very hard to actually make something worthwhile out of
bits and pieces of discarded consumer electronics. You need to get a lot
of skills at picking things over and you need to know where to look and
where not to waste your time. Then you learn a bunch of skills about how
to substitute parts you've got for parts you need.

I imagine it's the same way with music, too. The problem isn't anything
inherent in building music from samples, the problem is that it's very
difficult to do and get anything decent out of it. And it looks deceptively
easy, so every kid and his brother are trying it.

I think, though, that it's important to know what instruments sound like,
so you don't delude yourself that you're making something that sounds like
a real instrument. The real problem with the growth in collage music is
that fewer and fewer people know what real instruments sound like in a real
space.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

"hank alrich" wrote in message .. .
David Morgan (MAMS) wrote:

Why do you come here? TO PARTY Duuuuuuuuuude!!

If you leave I'll have to drive to Canada and... and... um... well....
ask you not to abandon the asylum just yet.

No ****. Right now I can't even find my keys.

But we could carpool to Canada.


How about in May ?? You swing through Austin to see your
daughter and I'll meet you there. We can take my 87 Crown Vic
for a comfortable ride... after all... it was made in Canada !!

;-)

DM

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On 2006-02-05 (hankalrich) said:
Part of this is due to a tiny rural community with limited
resources, and part of it is due to a lack of money here for arts
education. Next town over is thiniing of eliminating music when the
present teacher retires, and it isn't for lack of student interest.
California needs to spend amazing amounts of money on prisons, so it
can't afford what it ought to pay for education, and not just arts
education.
I"ll bet they have plenty of money for their football and
basketball programs though.

Hey did they ever think that if they spent money on arts
education they might not have to spend as much on prisons?
I find that most folks with an appreciation for true art
etc. are better adjusted socially. tHen again, what do I
know?



Richard WEbb,
Electric SPider Productions
Replace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real
email address.



Great audio is never heard by the average person, but bad
audio is heard by everyone.

(hank alrich) wrote in
:

Carey Carlan wrote:

My local middle school is full of performing arts fanatics. The
school has somewhere between 1,000 and 1,500 students in grades 6-8
(11, 12, and 13 year olds). There are more than 200 in just the
sixth grade band. They perform in the gym on a basketball court and
occupy half the room from under one basket to under the other and all
the way to the wall. Parents are packed into the other side and up
the bleachers to hear them.

And there are two more bands (total 550 students), three orchestras
(450 students) and five choruses (400 students), plus honor groups.
Toss in theatre arts and 2/3 of the school participate in performing
arts.

And then there's the high school with six string orchestras...

This is all wonderful, but I assure you, this is not the norm right
now in the USA, and especially not the norm where this isn't money in
the neighborhood. I won't bore you with the regional details here, but
the direction is not good right now, and hasn't been for about a
decade.

I live in Duluth, Georgia. It's "culturally diversified" with most
students of asian, hispanic, and/or african background. There is no
great funding effort that I'm aware of beyond having a total of 3
teachers to cover the 14 daily classes of instrumental music.

The difference is the spirit of the students. They want to be in the
orchestra more than they want to be on the football team. That's what's
unique.

I was at work one day when I heard a couple of 20 somethings I work
with discussing what they were going to do that evening. This guy says
he is "performing" at a club in town. I naturally butt in and ask what
type of music his band plays. He proceeds to tell me that he's a DJ.
Now, I admit there is certainly a degree of talent needed to be a good
dj, but I had to laugh when he continued to mentioned his "gig" to
people. No matter what I said to these "kids" they couldn't see the
difference between actually playing instruments and playing a record of
people playing instruments. Or if they saw a difference, it was
irrelevent to them.


Carey Carlan wrote:
"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in news:3FUEf.249431
$OU5.170707@clgrps13:

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It
certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

Nonsense. Of course it's the performance. If you lose focus of that
essential fact then depression sets in. The software is just another
suite of tools to change the performance, no different from a compressor
or equalizer.

People have always used tools incorrectly to destroy performances. More
tools, more options make more ways to screw it up. Also provides more
tools for the educated and attentive to improve or repair.

Software doesn't kill mixes, people do.

I was at work one day when I heard a couple of 20 somethings I work
with discussing what they were going to do that evening. This guy says
he is "performing" at a club in town. I naturally butt in and ask what
type of music his band plays. He proceeds to tell me that he's a DJ.
Now, I admit there is certainly a degree of talent needed to be a good
dj, but I had to laugh when he continued to mentioned his "gig" to
people. No matter what I said to these "kids" they couldn't see the
difference between actually playing instruments and playing a record of
people playing instruments. Or if they saw a difference, it was
irrelevent to them.


Carey Carlan wrote:
"Lorin David Schultz" wrote in news:3FUEf.249431
$OU5.170707@clgrps13:

It's not about the sound of the instrument being recorded. It
certainly
doesn't have anything to do with the way the instrument is played. The
arrangement of the song doesn't even factor into it.
It's not about using mics that are appropriate for the recording. It's
not about mic placement. It's not even about mix decisions.

Heck no, it's the SOFTWARE.

The inmates have the keys to the asylum.

Nonsense. Of course it's the performance. If you lose focus of that
essential fact then depression sets in. The software is just another
suite of tools to change the performance, no different from a compressor
or equalizer.

People have always used tools incorrectly to destroy performances. More
tools, more options make more ways to screw it up. Also provides more
tools for the educated and attentive to improve or repair.

Software doesn't kill mixes, people do.