wrote:
What's wrong with mono PA? I don't like it. Is that OK ?

Well it's been a while since I was a live sound guy, but for
physical reasons you generally can't get true stereo coverage in most
venues, as far as trying to make your lineup on stage match across a
stereo soundfield through a PA system. You just have too narrow an
area you can effectively cover with a stereo image in most venues.
There is pricey high end stuff installed in some concert halls that you
aren't supposed to know is a PA, and sometimes there is synthesized
stereo processing used sometimes which claims to compensate for the
physical limitations of a room (I haven't used that system), but that
kind of thing is the exception rather than the rule and you aren't
likely going to encounter that gigging around coffee houses and bars.

Probably what is most useful in stereo is reverb/echo, perhaps
some synth sounds or the odd guitar effects that pan across maybe, or
maybe being able to pan the sound away from a hot mic used by an MC
that walks out into the audience maybe. Still generally I think most
live sound is done with everything panned dead center, if not plain old
mono. And
a bad balance will be as sucky in stereo as it is in mono, and even
harder to get right.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

If my left channel was really smoking then maybe ;-)

Richard Crowley wrote:
bringmewater wrote ...

What's wrong with mono PA? I don't like it. Is that OK ?


Do you think you could sell CDs with only the left (or right)
channel at full price? If you had your choice of tickets:
* Stereo seating (limited supply)
* Left channel only seating
* Right channel only seating

Which tickets do you think would be sold?
Which tickets do you think you would have to discount (or give away)?



a cd does not have the ambient sound of the musicians filling the room
i always mix stereo and never try to deliver the same experiance to
every seat
the audio must follow the visual
so if your far stage left the instruments far stage left will be louder
for you than people far stage right
match the audio experiance to what the eyes are telling you it should
sound like
George

When I begin playing large venues in 20 years I'll keep that in mind.

Richard Crowley wrote:

Do you think you could sell CDs with only the left (or right)
channel at full price? If you had your choice of tickets:
* Stereo seating (limited supply)
* Left channel only seating
* Right channel only seating

Which tickets do you think would be sold?
Which tickets do you think you would have to discount (or give away)?

The nicest little hall around here, an older theater that still shows
movies, but which put a stage in for local theatricalities, seat 280. Of
those a third might be able to hear something resembling stereo that
correlated sensibly with what is seen on stage. And that's why I've run
FOH in mono there very often.

--
ha

Scott Dorsey wrote:
In article . com,
wrote:

What's wrong with mono PA? I don't like it. Is that OK ?


In a lot of rooms, it's not okay. Stereo is great if you have the room
for it, but sadly those places are in a very small minority.

And IIRC we are talking about one voice and one guitar here, right?

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...

a cd does not have the ambient sound of the musicians filling the room
i always mix stereo and never try to deliver the same experiance to
every seat
the audio must follow the visual
so if your far stage left the instruments far stage left will be louder
for you than people far stage right
match the audio experiance to what the eyes are telling you it should
sound like
George

But wouldn't you generally get that from the instruments (or the amps) on
that side of the stage? What about those sitting on the left side of the
stage who can't hear what's going on the right? (Not disputing your
expertise, George - I'm curious...)

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

Dave Martin wrote:
"George Gleason" wrote in message
...


a cd does not have the ambient sound of the musicians filling the room
i always mix stereo and never try to deliver the same experiance to
every seat
the audio must follow the visual
so if your far stage left the instruments far stage left will be louder
for you than people far stage right
match the audio experiance to what the eyes are telling you it should
sound like
George


But wouldn't you generally get that from the instruments (or the amps) on
that side of the stage? What about those sitting on the left side of the
stage who can't hear what's going on the right? (Not disputing your
expertise, George - I'm curious...)

i walk the venue
I don't experience a absence of anything
perhaps better described as diminished but that is what I am going for
the same sound you would hear without a pa only louder
George

In article writes:

And IIRC we are talking about one voice and one guitar here, right?

I believe so. Stereo effects on a guitar can work even in a small room
where people are likely to be closer to one speaker than the other.
People on opposite sides of the room won't hear quite the same thing
but they'll both hear a guitar with an effect, and those closer to the
center will hear the effect in stereo.

The voice and guitar should be centered, however.



--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"George Gleason" wrote in message
...
i walk the venue
I don't experience a absence of anything
perhaps better described as diminished but that is what I am going for
the same sound you would hear without a pa only louder

Gotcha - thanks.

--
Dave Martin
DMA, Inc
Nashville, TN

Dave Martin wrote:

"George Gleason" wrote...
i walk the venue
I don't experience a absence of anything
perhaps better described as diminished but that is what I am going for
the same sound you would hear without a pa only louder

Gotcha - thanks.

But in order for me to achieve that, I have to run mono in the room I
mentioned. Otherwise, since some of the front seats are very close to
the stage, and both too far left and right, using stereo in the PA means
folks can't hear what's happening on the other side of the stage, just
like they'd experience without a PA, being subject to the inverse square
law. Running mono in there lets me get more of the on-stage sonic
picture to more of the audients.

As it happens the Townhall Theater in Quincy CA is a very nice venue for
acoustic music. Grisman and crew played their opening tune, after which
David commented, "Wow, this is a very nice sounding hall, isn't it?" It
works very less well for any music that is overly amplified, becuase the
room's a litle too live for that.

--
ha

wrote:
When I begin playing large venues in 20 years I'll keep that in mind.

The same laws of physics apply. How much of the audience area do
you think you are realistically going to be able to cover with stereo
imaging? Would say, 20% audience coverage in stereo be good enough to
make you happy? If you *really* want stereo acoustic guitar for
"artistic reasons" I'd use a stereo acoustic guitar amp on the stage,
but in the house PA I'd use exteremly narrow stereo if at all, even
with the vocal reverb.

Mono is very underated - really.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News / M-AES
"the large print giveth and the small taketh away..." Tom Waits

hank alrich wrote:
Dave Martin wrote:


"George Gleason" wrote...

i walk the venue
I don't experience a absence of anything
perhaps better described as diminished but that is what I am going for
the same sound you would hear without a pa only louder


Gotcha - thanks.


But in order for me to achieve that, I have to run mono in the room I
mentioned.

anything from mono center only speaker to indvidual studio monitors
working as foh for each musician
what ever achieves the no pa sound best
George

Fred, Do you put all of this equipment in ONE case? How do you setup?
Is your SE-50 and Stewart amp in a rack where can tweak things or is
it all on the floor in the case? Can you tell me what case you use?

Thanks so much.


Freaky Fred wrote:
I do this same sort of thing. I use:

Shure Beta 57 Mic

Behringer 602 mixer

Boss SE-50 Stereo Effects Unit (delay, reverb, compression; whatever
you want, it's there)

Stewert PA 100B amp. (90 watts a side)

Electro Voice S-40 speakers (mounted on mic stands)

It all fits in a small rolling suitcase along with a small case for
mic
stands (one for the vocal mic and two for the speakers). The
speakers
are small, but are fine for vocal and acoustic guitar. The SE-50 is
no longer around but others are all over.

There are now lots of powered mixers with effects around that will do
the same thing.

Fred