Who's making the quality amplifiers these days?

the Nay Sayer

Rockwood, Coustic, Pyramid, Rochfird Fozghate, Sparkomatic, Craig. A+
quality.

Stupid is as stupid does...

Who's making the quality amplifiers these days?

Most companies are putting out at least one line of quality amplifiers these
days. So really, the answer to your question is "too numerous to list."

Hey, you don't like the list? Don't ask then man.

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Who's making the quality amplifiers these days?

Most companies are putting out at least one line of quality amplifiers
these
days. So really, the answer to your question is "too numerous to list."




The old saying 'You get what you pay for' applies here.
If its too good to be true ....
And alot of companies overrate their power..

"Nay-Sayer" wrote in message
oups.com...
Stupid is as stupid does...

Oh, then you must know that those are not good brands and it stands to
reason, then, that you know some good brands.

Why, then, did you ask this question?

MOSFET

Some people just can't spot sarcasm.

MOSFET wrote:

Why, then, did you ask this question?

MOSFET

MAYBE because I've been out of the loop for a while and there are now a
lot of brand names I'm not familiar with. The next time you wish to
use your room temperature IQ and corresponding logic, do us all a favor
and DON'T....

the Nay Sayer

Oooh. A internet fight! Throw in some personal insults because your
ego has been hurt as a result of you not thoroughly explaining your
question and reason for it. Thats Hot.

"Nay-Sayer" wrote in message
oups.com...

MOSFET wrote:

Why, then, did you ask this question?

MOSFET

MAYBE because I've been out of the loop for a while and there are now a
lot of brand names I'm not familiar with. The next time you wish to
use your room temperature IQ and corresponding logic, do us all a favor
and DON'T....

the Nay Sayer

Geez, lighten up. Take a deep breath or a valium or something.

We didn't mean to **** you off. Ephedra was just playing with you. The
thing is, we get tired of "which is the best" questions because, of course,
there is no definitive answer. Everybody thinks their brands are the best,
of course. There are tons of good brands out there. Most companies that
were making good stuff 10 years ago (Xtant, Phoenix Gold, MTX, etc.) are
still around making good stuff. But when you ask 10 of us that sort of
subjective question you are going to get 10 different answers and all sorts
of debate.

MOSFET

MOSFET, you are a better person than I. You should be a hostage
negotiator or something.

Why does it always have to get personal. Its just CAR AUDIO, not heart
transplants!

MOSFET wrote:
Geez, lighten up. Take a deep breath or a valium or something.

We didn't mean to **** you off. Ephedra was just playing with you.
The
thing is, we get tired of "which is the best" questions because, of
course,
there is no definitive answer.

I was asking who's making the quality stuff (ie not junk). I thought
it was a pretty simple and straight foward question, guess I was wrong.


Most companies that
were making good stuff 10 years ago (Xtant, Phoenix Gold, MTX, etc.)
are
still around making good stuff.

That was ten years ago. A lot can happen in ten years (eg all the new
brands that are around now that weren't ten years ago)....

the Nay Sayer

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

"Nay-Sayer" wrote in message
oups.com...

MOSFET wrote:

Why, then, did you ask this question?

MOSFET

MAYBE because I've been out of the loop for a while and there are now a
lot of brand names I'm not familiar with. The next time you wish to
use your room temperature IQ and corresponding logic, do us all a favor
and DON'T....

the Nay Sayer

Geez, lighten up. Take a deep breath or a valium or something.

We didn't mean to **** you off. Ephedra was just playing with you. The
thing is, we get tired of "which is the best" questions because, of
course,
there is no definitive answer. Everybody thinks their brands are the
best,
of course. There are tons of good brands out there. Most companies that
were making good stuff 10 years ago (Xtant, Phoenix Gold, MTX, etc.) are
still around making good stuff. But when you ask 10 of us that sort of
subjective question you are going to get 10 different answers and all
sorts
of debate.

MOSFET


probably should have asked which brands have gone to **** in the last 10
years..
a number were top-notch gear a decade ago, but have gone downhill..

"Dark1" wrote in message
...

probably should have asked which brands have gone to **** in the last 10
years..
a number were top-notch gear a decade ago, but have gone downhill..

Oh, like Rockford Fosgate? Talk about the poster-boy for "gone to ****".
Not only has the quality gone down, but they are trying to rely on their old
reputation by making the "Punch" line of amps their "entry-level" brand (it
used to be "Series 1"), and the "Power" series is really what the "Punch"
series used to be. Back in the day, any "Power" series amp was a truly
incredible piece of amplifier technology. It's kind of sad to see the
quality go down and these venerable names watered down.

From what I have heard, Soundstream has gone downhill as well, although I
think it has a couple of overpriced "flagship" amps that might be OK.

MOSFET

They have all gone downhill. Electronics in general are made faster
cheaper and with less concern about durability.

PPI still makes some ok amps IMO.

But if your looking for the tank amps of yesteryear, good luck.

They have all gone downhill. Electronics in general are made faster
cheaper and with less concern about durability.

PPI still makes some ok amps IMO.

But if your looking for the tank amps of yesteryear, good luck.

I can list two dozen amps made today that I'd take before an amp made a
decade ago.

Don't confuse the abundance of low-cost alternatives with a general
degradation in technology and quality.

Even a deacade ago they were going down hill.

Im not saying all amps are garbage. But as a whole, yes, the qaulity
has gone down hill. Im sure there are many top notch amps out there.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Even a deacade ago they were going down hill.

Im not saying all amps are garbage. But as a whole, yes, the qaulity
has gone down hill. Im sure there are many top notch amps out there.
\

How important is quality though?

I paid 300 bucks for 2 10 inch lightning audo subs, box, and Lighting Audio
150W amp combo deal, and it all sounds great, I use a Pioneer DEH-P8400MP
headunit, factory 4x6 in doors and Pioneer speakers from walmart 6x9 in
rear, not sure what model number but they were only 50 bucks. I have been
wanting to upgrade the 4x6 in doors but all in all I am extremely happy with
the way it sounds. The only thing that sux is it is a Chevrolet Malibu
Classic (2004) and the warning beeps that chime when keys are in ignition
and door is open, or headlights on and car is off, or whenever a dummy light
comes on was all part of the factory HU so I dont get the chimes anymore, no
big deal though if I ever did leave my lights on it has an auto turn off
after 45 minutes or something like that and I can still see the dummy lights
;p. I dont usually have a problem forgetting my keys in the ignition.

Even a deacade ago they were going down hill.

Im not saying all amps are garbage. But as a whole, yes, the qaulity
has gone down hill. Im sure there are many top notch amps out there.

Well, that's my point. There are many top notch amps out there. More now
than back then. And in fact, these top notch amps today are better than the
top notch amps from 10 or 15 or 20 years ago. Which amp from yesteryear
would you prefer over, say, a Brax or Genesis amp of today? If you want to
deliver 1200 watts to your sub, which amp would you do it with back then?
They didn't have class D and it was rare to find amps that were as powerful
then as you find all over the place today. You rarely found anything with
the kind of adjustability and crossovers you do now. The connectors were
esoteric and incompatible half the time.

Like most things electronic, technology has improved and so has quality.

Metra makes a harness for that vehicle that has the chimes built in it is
model # GMRC-01 i think. it is a lttle pricey though (MSRP $59.99)

--
The Clown Prince of Car Stereo


"Sean Scott" Its@secret wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Even a deacade ago they were going down hill.

Im not saying all amps are garbage. But as a whole, yes, the qaulity
has gone down hill. Im sure there are many top notch amps out there.
\

How important is quality though?

I paid 300 bucks for 2 10 inch lightning audo subs, box, and Lighting
Audio
150W amp combo deal, and it all sounds great, I use a Pioneer DEH-P8400MP
headunit, factory 4x6 in doors and Pioneer speakers from walmart 6x9 in
rear, not sure what model number but they were only 50 bucks. I have been
wanting to upgrade the 4x6 in doors but all in all I am extremely happy
with
the way it sounds. The only thing that sux is it is a Chevrolet Malibu
Classic (2004) and the warning beeps that chime when keys are in ignition
and door is open, or headlights on and car is off, or whenever a dummy
light
comes on was all part of the factory HU so I dont get the chimes anymore,
no
big deal though if I ever did leave my lights on it has an auto turn off
after 45 minutes or something like that and I can still see the dummy
lights
;p. I dont usually have a problem forgetting my keys in the ignition.

Well I can't comment about amps in that price range. But minus
technology advances, a $300 amp in say 1988 from RF was much better
built than a $350-400 amp from them today. Every year they find ways to
cut costs and keep there profits rising.

Well I can't comment about amps in that price range. But minus
technology advances, a $300 amp in say 1988 from RF was much better
built than a $350-400 amp from them today. Every year they find ways to
cut costs and keep there profits rising.

That's debatable, but even if I accepted the premise that RF amps were
better then than they are today, this is simply a business decision on their
part - not a trend in the industry or a statement about technology or the
capability to build quality amplifiers. Some of these companies sold their
names to other companies and the new companies are going off name
recognition alone. This is something that doesn't really go the other way,
you know?

Today, dollars per watt has gone down. Watts per pound has gone up.
Features have gotten better. There's greater compatibility. And the
selection is far far better today than it used to be. I call that progress.

Your right, it never really goes in the direction of higher qaulity.

I also agree that features have gotten better and yes, there is a
huge capability to build far superior amps, but again, this is prob.
only being done in the high end amplifiers, to which I have little
expirience with because of costs.

Your right, it never really goes in the direction of higher qaulity.

I also agree that features have gotten better and yes, there is a
huge capability to build far superior amps, but again, this is prob.
only being done in the high end amplifiers, to which I have little
expirience with because of costs.

I don't think there's been a shift to higher prices, really. I think
yesterday's high end amps have now become today's high end amps with a few
bonuses. But, in addition to today's high end amps, you've also got even
higher end amps (two of which I listed really to exaggerate) and you've got
lower end amps. There's a market for all of these genres. Some people want
100 watts for under 200 bucks. You couldn't really buy that back in the day
(when you take inflation into account). But if you still want a great amp,
you can spend, say, 300 or 400 for one and it will easily beat yesterday's
300 or 400 dollar amp. The quality will be about the same, but today you'll
get more power because the watts per dollar have increased for the most
part.

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...

"Dark1" wrote in message
...

probably should have asked which brands have gone to **** in the last 10
years..
a number were top-notch gear a decade ago, but have gone downhill..

Oh, like Rockford Fosgate? Talk about the poster-boy for "gone to ****".
Not only has the quality gone down, but they are trying to rely on their
old
reputation by making the "Punch" line of amps their "entry-level" brand
(it
used to be "Series 1"), and the "Power" series is really what the "Punch"
series used to be. Back in the day, any "Power" series amp was a truly
incredible piece of amplifier technology. It's kind of sad to see the
quality go down and these venerable names watered down.

From what I have heard, Soundstream has gone downhill as well, although I
think it has a couple of overpriced "flagship" amps that might be OK.

MOSFET

Lanzar comes to mind as well.. opti became opti "SL" (**** line?) and RMS
power ratings went with it..
there's been one hell of a trend of companies riding old reputations with
lesser equipment..

"MZ" wrote in message
...
Don't confuse the abundance of low-cost alternatives with a general
degradation in technology and quality.

That is such a good point! Especially because today these "box stores"
(Best Buy, Circuit City, Good Guys, etc.) are EVERYWHERE and carry only low
to mid-level brands. It is way too easy to form an opinion about the entire
industry by looking only at these stores. The true "high-end" brands still
only distribute through specialty car-audio retailers.

MOSFET

Mark, I agree with what you are saying that today you get more power and
more features for the dollar, no question about it.

But we talked about this before on that thread I started "Do you Like Older
Amps?", and I sincerely believe that the AVERAGE construction of today's
amps is not as solid as ten years ago. Absolutely, there are still
companies like Brax building really solid amps. But when you look at the
amp industry as a whole and the majority of amps sold today by companies
like Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer, Alpine, etc., it seems to me that your
"average" $300 amp is not built as well as an "average" $300 amp built ten
years ago. Does it have more features and more power? Yes. But
construction in general HAS declined.

MOSFET

Mark, I agree with what you are saying that today you get more power and
more features for the dollar, no question about it.

But we talked about this before on that thread I started "Do you Like
Older
Amps?", and I sincerely believe that the AVERAGE construction of today's
amps is not as solid as ten years ago. Absolutely, there are still
companies like Brax building really solid amps. But when you look at the
amp industry as a whole and the majority of amps sold today by companies
like Sony, Kenwood, Pioneer, Alpine, etc., it seems to me that your
"average" $300 amp is not built as well as an "average" $300 amp built ten
years ago. Does it have more features and more power? Yes. But
construction in general HAS declined.

That just doesn't make any sense. When you talk about an "average", you
have to take into account the fact that manufacturers today are making
things more affordable. So the "low end" stuff is going to bring down the
average. But the fact remains that there are MORE high quality amplifiers
today than there ever were.

Next you talk about solid construction. Well, they're simply doing it
another way. Sure, back in the day you could get a Rockford amp that would
safely drive speakers down to an ohm. But why do you need that today, when
today's Rockford amplifiers are capable of providing 4 times as much power
into 4 ohms? And they do so with a smaller footprint and without getting as
hot. Yeah, I owned some of those older amps too, and trust me, I wouldn't
trade my newer Orion for any one of them. And it's not like Orion is one of
these hand-crafted gold plated insert useless construction features
amplifiers like a Brax or something. My Orion is probably the "average"
that you speak of.

"MOSFET" wrote in message
...
Mark, I agree with what you are saying that today you get more power and
more features for the dollar, no question about it.

But we talked about this before on that thread I started "Do you Like
Older
Amps?", and I sincerely believe that the AVERAGE construction of today's
amps is not as solid as ten years ago.

I have to disagree, I have an a/d/s 850MX that although I love I can't see
how it still works from looking inside. Terrible soldering, add-a
components everywhere, components improperly secured, AND a very expensive,
highly regarded amp for it's time.

OTOH I opened up my MTX Blue thunder Pro400X5, Absolutely beautiful!
Mil-spec circuit board, soldering was top notch. Component layout was
sensible.

When I got out of Pro-Audio repair I started repairing high-end car audio to
keep my chops up. I have seen this scenario time and time again.

It comes down to this. Technology has advanced. Switch mode devices have
become faster, and more reliable. Passives (caps, etc) hold their
tolerances longer and handle higher temps. Automated circuit board
manufacturing has improved. Surface mount architecture is now prevalent.
The only thing I have seen go down hill are fit and finish items, Notably
pots, but that is a manufacture decision based on cost. Things are getting
less expensive because they are easier to make, component quality has gone
up and outsourced labor prices have gone down.

Chad

"Chad Wahls" wrote in message
...
I have to disagree, I have an a/d/s 850MX that although I love I can't see
how it still works from looking inside. Terrible soldering, add-a
components everywhere, components improperly secured, AND a very
expensive,
highly regarded amp for it's time.

OTOH I opened up my MTX Blue thunder Pro400X5, Absolutely beautiful!
Mil-spec circuit board, soldering was top notch. Component layout was
sensible.

When I got out of Pro-Audio repair I started repairing high-end car audio
to
keep my chops up. I have seen this scenario time and time again.

It comes down to this. Technology has advanced. Switch mode devices have
become faster, and more reliable. Passives (caps, etc) hold their
tolerances longer and handle higher temps. Automated circuit board
manufacturing has improved. Surface mount architecture is now prevalent.
The only thing I have seen go down hill are fit and finish items, Notably
pots, but that is a manufacture decision based on cost. Things are
getting
less expensive because they are easier to make, component quality has gone
up and outsourced labor prices have gone down.

Chad

Yes, I wasn't talking about the guts, though there were some old amps that
were really beautiful from the inside. I owned once a Coustic 510DR (yes,
Coustic once made a few really high end amps) and it's guts were a thing of
beauty, as are the guts of my 9 year old Soundstream Ref. 700. I am talking
about the construction only, not the internal components.

Here is a really good way to illustrate my point, and Mark, even you
probably can't argue with this. If you were to take the most popular amp
sold in 1994 (by units) and then the most popular amp sold in 2004, I'll
wager that the 1994 amp would feel more solid and be better constructed.
No, it would not be as powerful or have the features.

Mark, you said that the low end brands are in a sense bringing down the
industry, or lowering the norms (I can't recall exactly what you said), but
THAT was my point. Not that all of today's amps are crap. In fact, I agree
with you, there are probably more manufacturers today of really high-end
gear. I am talking about amps for the masses (the typical Sony, Pioneer,
Kenwood, et.c), and I'm saying the construction quality has gone down for
THOSE amps.

MOSFET

Interesting the amps you use as examples. I've owned an a/d/s P840
(different from the 850MX), and nothing inside appeared to be cause for
alarm. I've worked on my old Blue Thunder 752 (had to replace a
transformer and repair a trace) and I concur with what you say. Solid
construction, vanilla design.


On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Chad Wahls wrote:


"MOSFET" wrote in message
...
Mark, I agree with what you are saying that today you get more power and
more features for the dollar, no question about it.

But we talked about this before on that thread I started "Do you Like
Older
Amps?", and I sincerely believe that the AVERAGE construction of today's
amps is not as solid as ten years ago.

I have to disagree, I have an a/d/s 850MX that although I love I can't see
how it still works from looking inside. Terrible soldering, add-a
components everywhere, components improperly secured, AND a very expensive,
highly regarded amp for it's time.

OTOH I opened up my MTX Blue thunder Pro400X5, Absolutely beautiful!
Mil-spec circuit board, soldering was top notch. Component layout was
sensible.

When I got out of Pro-Audio repair I started repairing high-end car audio to
keep my chops up. I have seen this scenario time and time again.

It comes down to this. Technology has advanced. Switch mode devices have
become faster, and more reliable. Passives (caps, etc) hold their
tolerances longer and handle higher temps. Automated circuit board
manufacturing has improved. Surface mount architecture is now prevalent.
The only thing I have seen go down hill are fit and finish items, Notably
pots, but that is a manufacture decision based on cost. Things are getting
less expensive because they are easier to make, component quality has gone
up and outsourced labor prices have gone down.

Chad

I think it's a later 850 when they were getting ready to go to the 860.
There are a lot of fixes in there (add-a-component), traces wick solder
better than solder wick. I've had to resolder the power tranny 3 times now
and it wasn't mounted on a box. Last soldering I added some structural
reinforcement and it is doing well. Now it's down with a blown channel,
anyone have schematics? Dunno how it blew but would be nice to get it going,
car shopping and it would make a nice addition.

Chad


"MZ" wrote in message
...
Interesting the amps you use as examples. I've owned an a/d/s P840
(different from the 850MX), and nothing inside appeared to be cause for
alarm. I've worked on my old Blue Thunder 752 (had to replace a
transformer and repair a trace) and I concur with what you say. Solid
construction, vanilla design.


On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Chad Wahls wrote:


"MOSFET" wrote in message
...
Mark, I agree with what you are saying that today you get more power
and
more features for the dollar, no question about it.

But we talked about this before on that thread I started "Do you Like
Older
Amps?", and I sincerely believe that the AVERAGE construction of
today's
amps is not as solid as ten years ago.

I have to disagree, I have an a/d/s 850MX that although I love I can't
see
how it still works from looking inside. Terrible soldering, add-a
components everywhere, components improperly secured, AND a very
expensive,
highly regarded amp for it's time.

OTOH I opened up my MTX Blue thunder Pro400X5, Absolutely beautiful!
Mil-spec circuit board, soldering was top notch. Component layout was
sensible.

When I got out of Pro-Audio repair I started repairing high-end car audio
to
keep my chops up. I have seen this scenario time and time again.

It comes down to this. Technology has advanced. Switch mode devices
have
become faster, and more reliable. Passives (caps, etc) hold their
tolerances longer and handle higher temps. Automated circuit board
manufacturing has improved. Surface mount architecture is now prevalent.
The only thing I have seen go down hill are fit and finish items, Notably
pots, but that is a manufacture decision based on cost. Things are
getting
less expensive because they are easier to make, component quality has
gone
up and outsourced labor prices have gone down.

Chad