Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

"vas" wrote in message
...

Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

use switchers.

http://www.broadcasttools.com/product_list.asp

the 16x1 or SS 8.1 II are passive switchers. get one switcher for each
channel. then hook room 1 to ch one one each. room 2 to ch 2 and so on.

"vas" wrote in message
...

Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

use switchers.

http://www.broadcasttools.com/product_list.asp

the 16x1 or SS 8.1 II are passive switchers. get one switcher for each
channel. then hook room 1 to ch one one each. room 2 to ch 2 and so on.

In article writes:

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay.

I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver

Actually the ADAT style Elco connector would be a pretty good choice.
They make smaller ones if you want only eight channels per connector.
The jackscrew is available with a knurled shaft that can be turned by
hand, no tools required.

You're right that you won't find a commercial version of this, though.
It will either be wire-it-yourself (including the patch cables) or
give the job to a custom wiring house such as Whirlwind, Gepco, or
Horizon (or maybe you have someone local who can do it, or students
you can trust to do a good job).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article znr1097064759k@trad, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

In article
writes:

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay.

I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver

Actually the ADAT style Elco connector would be a pretty good choice.
They make smaller ones if you want only eight channels per connector.
The jackscrew is available with a knurled shaft that can be turned by
hand, no tools required.

You're right that you won't find a commercial version of this, though.
It will either be wire-it-yourself (including the patch cables) or
give the job to a custom wiring house such as Whirlwind, Gepco, or
Horizon (or maybe you have someone local who can do it, or students
you can trust to do a good job).


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )

I've used both Elco and DL (the connectors on the SSL), I'd shy away
from the Elcos in any situation where they're going to be connected and
disconnected many times or used by ham-handed persons
(interns...students...etc).

Unless you "help" the mating/unmating process along, you will eventually
strip out the nut in the female recepticle (may take a year or several
depending on usage). Even then you can still use the connector by simply
pushing it forcibly into place, but it's not a very reassuring
connection.

Also the Elco pins are not well protected and can get fairly easily bent
or damaged. They do have a nice large connection contact though.

The DL style connector is actually pretty nice, the pins are somewhat
better protected, more so on the female side than the male. And the
actuation/locking handle is much easier to use. Smaller electrical
contact area, but it doesn't seem to be a problem over the long term
(connectors I installed almost ten years ago are still
trouble-free...but they haven't been unmated/mated more than a couple
times a year).

Be aware that you'll need to purchase a specialty crimping tool to crimp
the pins for either of these connectors, and they typically run well
over a hundred dollars US (shop around or borrow one!)

I'd recommend the DL connector.

Jeff C.

--
Anti-Spam email address in effect.
My real email should be pretty obvious to an actual human being.

In article jeffrey.chestekYouKnowWhatToRemove-DA writes:

I've used both Elco and DL (the connectors on the SSL), I'd shy away
from the Elcos in any situation where they're going to be connected and
disconnected many times or used by ham-handed persons
(interns...students...etc).

Unless you "help" the mating/unmating process along, you will eventually
strip out the nut in the female recepticle (may take a year or several
depending on usage).

Of course you can break almost anything, and in general, no multi-pin
connector is designed for as many insertions as long frame patchbay
connectors. Once a day is OK for several years' service (PA snakes,
for instance) but not in-and-out several times per session as a
patchbay cable would be used.

When I was building my remote truck on a limited budget, I found some
zero insertion force multipin connectors that I think were originally
used on IBM disk drives (back when a disk drive was the size and shape
of a washing machine). I got new pins (I believe it was a Cannon) and
I don't think I ever had a problem with contact. But the shell was
flat and plastic, and a couple of them got cracked over the years.
When I built new snakes, I used an Amp connector with a jackscrew in
the middle similar to the ADAT sytle Elco.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

(Mike Rivers) wrote in message news:znr1097240117k@trad...
In article jeffrey.chestekYouKnowWhatToRemove-DA writes:

I've used both Elco and DL (the connectors on the SSL), I'd shy away
from the Elcos in any situation where they're going to be connected and
disconnected many times or used by ham-handed persons
(interns...students...etc).

Unless you "help" the mating/unmating process along, you will eventually
strip out the nut in the female recepticle (may take a year or several
depending on usage).

I used an Amp connector with a jackscrew in
the middle similar to the ADAT sytle Elco.

If that's the G-series they are expensive and a pain to but small
quantaties of parts for.
Wireworks in New Jersey are the only people i know of that sell
individual sets of these. They are a very good connector.

Don't Use DB-25, they are not made for a lot of use.


Check out the VEAM 85. I've solddered a bunch of them now and they are
SOLID!!! and easy to work on.


To make whips going into multi-input consoles ( upwards of 32 ) the
ITT MASS connector is what you need. It is big and expensive, but it
will last.

IS there a Central Equipment Room? everything all bulkheads leading to
one room with the Patchbays?

Draw up a Plan.. make some drawings.

Is the Equipment already bought?


Also Check out the options of running everything on CAT6 . Ryerson
University are planning on foing this for their new studios. It might
work if you are dealing with a lot of Digital signals.

In article znr1097240117k@trad, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

In article jeffrey.chestekYouKnowWhatToRemove-DA
writes:

I've used both Elco and DL (the connectors on the SSL), I'd shy away
from the Elcos in any situation where they're going to be connected and
disconnected many times or used by ham-handed persons
(interns...students...etc).

Unless you "help" the mating/unmating process along, you will eventually
strip out the nut in the female recepticle (may take a year or several
depending on usage).

Of course you can break almost anything, and in general, no multi-pin
connector is designed for as many insertions as long frame patchbay
connectors. Once a day is OK for several years' service (PA snakes,
for instance) but not in-and-out several times per session as a
patchbay cable would be used.

When I was building my remote truck on a limited budget, I found some
zero insertion force multipin connectors that I think were originally
used on IBM disk drives (back when a disk drive was the size and shape
of a washing machine). I got new pins (I believe it was a Cannon) and
I don't think I ever had a problem with contact. But the shell was
flat and plastic, and a couple of them got cracked over the years.
When I built new snakes, I used an Amp connector with a jackscrew in
the middle similar to the ADAT sytle Elco.


As you said, any connector can, and probably will, eventually break.

Having used 90 pin Elcos for multicore snakes when I originally wired
this commercial studio, I might not choose to use them in the future.
They have lasted FAIRLY well, but I've got kind of a bad feeling from
the failures and would think about using something else if I had it to
do all over again.

That said, I still have dozens of these connectors working in daily
service, and with a little care, they're fine. Just watch out for the
nuts stripping out, and try not to tie in the wiring so tightly that you
can't push out the pins and replace the female connectors easily (as I
did in one location...took me hours to replace the faulty one, and it
needs to be done again, dammit!)

Jeff C.

--
Anti-Spam email address in effect.
My real email should be pretty obvious to an actual human being.

In article writes:

If that's the G-series they are expensive and a pain to but small
quantaties of parts for.
Wireworks in New Jersey are the only people i know of that sell
individual sets of these. They are a very good connector.

Threre's nothing "G" on the part number of the first pin block that
came to hand, but the AMP part number is 201532-2. I think I bought
the parts and a couple of hundred pins of each gender from Newark, but
that was more than 15 years ago. And I have a friend who has every
crimp tool in the world, so that was no problem.

When I helped Harvey install his MCI console a few years ago, we
soldered a whole bunch of the 30-pin Tuchel connectors. That was
really easy to do since they're quite large and there's plenty of
room, but I don't think you'd want to use those on a patchbay because
of the space.

No doubt about it - patching/switching multiple connections in one
bundle is an expensive prospect no matter how you go about it. Perhaps
it would be worth thinking outside the bun and seeing if there's not a
better way to set up this system, particularly considering that it's
going to be run by "students" (whatever that means, but it sounds
dangerous)

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 02:17:01 -0400, vas wrote:


Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

Thank you to all who replied. Currently investigating the ELCO and DL
options, along with the Tuchels. The VEAM and MASS connectors, solid
as they may be, are a little pricy and overkill in our particular
case, but if I need to build something truly huge and tank-proof, I
know where to look! I will post a follow up once a solution is
found.

Again, much gratitude.
--Vas

On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 02:17:01 -0400, vas wrote:


Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

Actually, since I am on the subject, what is everyone's favorite
multicore for permanent installation? 8 to 32 pair can be used in my
application and star-quad is not desirable due to conduit size, price
and relatively quiet environment. Of the three that I've worked with
- belden, mogami, canare - canare was my favorite, but that was
single line only.

Thanks again,

--Vas

"vas" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 02:17:01 -0400, vas wrote:


Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

Actually, since I am on the subject, what is everyone's favorite
multicore for permanent installation? 8 to 32 pair can be used in my
application and star-quad is not desirable due to conduit size, price
and relatively quiet environment. Of the three that I've worked with
- belden, mogami, canare - canare was my favorite, but that was
single line only.

Of the brands you mention, I like Mogami. Having said that, I'm liking
Gepco very much these days, especially for an install. Slightly less
flexible than the Mogami, but that is OK in an install, and the cable is
much cheaper (in cost) than Mogami. Not sure where in the country you are,
but if you're in the Los Angeles area, the local Gepco outlet is in Burbank,
very near the I-% freeway, close to Costco. Don't have the number handy,
but ask for Kurt Stein. Oh, and when you go to pick it up, if you go across
Burbank Blvd. and head north you can visit the nearby Krispy Kreme and get a
fresh HOT donut. Yum.

And yes, for single line stuff, I like Canare as well.

Kendall



Thanks again,

--Vas

"Kendall" wrote in message om...
"vas" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 02:17:01 -0400, vas wrote:


Hello all,

I'm wiring a new studio at school. Have several wall panels with
24-32 connections on each. Need to patch different parts of each
panel into preamps/consoles at different times in different
configurations, thus requiring a bay that would allow switching in
groups. Well, not REQUIRING, but it would make things a HELL of a lot
more convenient than a TT bay. Between all the rooms and all the
gozintas and gozoutas I have at least 19 banks of 8. I have not seen
any commercial products like this, only one custom installation on
Tuchels and pictures of a couple of installs on DB25s with quick
release. The huge Cannons that are used on SSLs are probably overkill
and I'm only familiar with ADAT ELCOs, which require a screwdriver
(these have to be student operated, too complex). The DB25s made the
most sense. In any case, I am stuck. Can anyone suggest a course of
action?

Many thanks,
--Vas

Actually, since I am on the subject, what is everyone's favorite
multicore for permanent installation? 8 to 32 pair can be used in my
application and star-quad is not desirable due to conduit size, price
and relatively quiet environment. Of the three that I've worked with
- belden, mogami, canare - canare was my favorite, but that was
single line only.

Of the brands you mention, I like Mogami. Having said that, I'm liking
Gepco very much these days, especially for an install. Slightly less
flexible than the Mogami, but that is OK in an install, and the cable is
much cheaper (in cost) than Mogami. Not sure where in the country you are,
but if you're in the Los Angeles area, the local Gepco outlet is in Burbank,
very near the I-% freeway, close to Costco. Don't have the number handy,
but ask for Kurt Stein. Oh, and when you go to pick it up, if you go across
Burbank Blvd. and head north you can visit the nearby Krispy Kreme and get a
fresh HOT donut. Yum.

And yes, for single line stuff, I like Canare as well.

Kendall



Thanks again,

--Vas



If it's a permanaent install why would you use multicore? use single
lines.

Belden 9180 is a 26 guage 110 Ohm foil shielded pair. You would be
able to get more than 140 strands of it into a 2" conduit ( just my
guess off the top of my head )

Then make your whips out of Canare L4 type multicore.

Do all your ground lifting in the harnesses that go to your
equipment. Or if you have rolling racks with multi-pins on them ( the
whole rack on one connector ) Lift stuff on the harness inside the
rack.

The Gepco stuff is allright but it can be a pain to solder to
multipins as the jacket peels back really fast. ( I've been soldering
Gepco to DB25s this week, and it's the sane as the Gepco i complained
about the last time i had to solder Gepco , 4 years ago)