On 27 Sep 2004 09:18:21 -0700, wrote:

I have since changed my contract but the one this clients signed says
the deposit is refundable up to 72 hours before the session ( We are
the kind of place that usually books 2-5 days so this clause was
always fine.)

My big mistake was spending some of this money on bills and some
non-returnable gear…so I have been scrambling to get the money
together. I completely intend to pay this guy. He, however, is not
being uhm…understanding…to say the least.

So guys, what degree of busting ass, going into debt, not eating etc
do I owe this guy? What sort of timeframe is appropriate for returning
the money. They did cancel 4 weeks before the booked time so
technically I owe them but I guess I just don't know how soon I owe
them.

There's nothing technical about it. You offered terms including a
returnable deposit. The sob-story regarding why you find these terms
inconvenient is neither here or there.

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On 28 Sep 2004 09:18:21 -0400, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

It's only resorts that insist on an actual cash deposit in advance.
Typically a hotel takes a credit card number when you make a
reservation, and if you don't show up or cancel within the allowed
cancellation period, they charge your credit card for one night as a
penalty. Often they'll make a "temporary" charge of a dollar against
your card to verify that it's valid, but when I've held a reservation
with a credit card and had to cancel, I never see a charge/credit on
my account because they never charged anything.

I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment. I believe some people use their credit cards as a
kind of rolling overdraft, rather than paying in full each month and
arranging a better borrowing deal if needed :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On 28 Sep 2004 09:18:21 -0400, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

It's only resorts that insist on an actual cash deposit in advance.
Typically a hotel takes a credit card number when you make a
reservation, and if you don't show up or cancel within the allowed
cancellation period, they charge your credit card for one night as a
penalty. Often they'll make a "temporary" charge of a dollar against
your card to verify that it's valid, but when I've held a reservation
with a credit card and had to cancel, I never see a charge/credit on
my account because they never charged anything.

I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment. I believe some people use their credit cards as a
kind of rolling overdraft, rather than paying in full each month and
arranging a better borrowing deal if needed :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Blind Joni wrote:

I know for me someone cancelling a 3 week long session 4 weeks out is gonna be
a problem to fill..not to mention all the work I would have turned down for
that period.


I wonder what the studio in Nashville did with the Cat Stevens time.

Blind Joni wrote:

I know for me someone cancelling a 3 week long session 4 weeks out is gonna be
a problem to fill..not to mention all the work I would have turned down for
that period.


I wonder what the studio in Nashville did with the Cat Stevens time.

In article ojunk writes:

Sorry... but 4 weeks out is plenty o' time to fill the hole in yer schedule.

I get the sense that perhaps in his case it wasn't. Maybe this was his
one big gig and he invested the client's deposit getting ready for it.

There may be non-returnable gear, but certainly he can sell some off.
If he doesn't have the session (or enough other sessions to keep him
solvent, apparently) he probably doesn't need the gear.

A business plan is in order.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article ojunk writes:

Sorry... but 4 weeks out is plenty o' time to fill the hole in yer schedule.

I get the sense that perhaps in his case it wasn't. Maybe this was his
one big gig and he invested the client's deposit getting ready for it.

There may be non-returnable gear, but certainly he can sell some off.
If he doesn't have the session (or enough other sessions to keep him
solvent, apparently) he probably doesn't need the gear.

A business plan is in order.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I know for me someone cancelling a 3 week long session 4 weeks out is gonna be
a problem to fill..not to mention all the work I would have turned down for
that period.

Unfortunately that's the way this business works. That's why there are
so few who are successful. Those that are don't get many
cancellations.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I know for me someone cancelling a 3 week long session 4 weeks out is gonna be
a problem to fill..not to mention all the work I would have turned down for
that period.

Unfortunately that's the way this business works. That's why there are
so few who are successful. Those that are don't get many
cancellations.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment.

Car rental companies do that. They put a "hold" on your account for
the estimated amount of the rental. Your account isn't actually
charged (that is, the clock for making the payment or paying interest
hasn't started) until you return the car and pay the bill, but it does
charge against your credit limit. My dealer rented a Ferrari for the
NAMM show one year and had to call the credit card company to get his
credit limit raised (they had a big hold against damage as well as the
rental) before he could check out of his hotel room.

I believe some people use their credit cards as a
kind of rolling overdraft, rather than paying in full each month and
arranging a better borrowing deal if needed :-)

True. Maybe unluckyducky should have used a credit card to buy the
gear instead of the session deposit.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article writes:

I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment.

Car rental companies do that. They put a "hold" on your account for
the estimated amount of the rental. Your account isn't actually
charged (that is, the clock for making the payment or paying interest
hasn't started) until you return the car and pay the bill, but it does
charge against your credit limit. My dealer rented a Ferrari for the
NAMM show one year and had to call the credit card company to get his
credit limit raised (they had a big hold against damage as well as the
rental) before he could check out of his hotel room.

I believe some people use their credit cards as a
kind of rolling overdraft, rather than paying in full each month and
arranging a better borrowing deal if needed :-)

True. Maybe unluckyducky should have used a credit card to buy the
gear instead of the session deposit.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Laurence Payne wrote:
I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment.

I did a little bit of the software that did credit card processing
on a web site once, so here's what I know. Basically, the credit
card transactions go in two steps. In the first one, they do a
lien against the card. This doesn't, if I remember right, require
very much in the way of authorization. You're not supposed to need
a signature or anything like that. Then, at least with the credit
card processing service we were using, if you do nothing else for
24 hours (or some other period?), the lien is removed automatically.
Once you want to really make the charge, you need extra info (at
this point I think you are supposed to have the signature, or
whatever equivalent like billing address that you take for an online
purchase or phone purchase), and you do a second step to make the
charge go through. I believe the second step removes the lien
when it completes. Also, the lien ensures that you can make a
charge and that the customer's card won't be over the limit when
you do.

Based on this, I surmise that when you go into a restaurant and
pay by credit card, they take your card and run it to produce a
piece of paper for you to sign. At this point, if your meal is
$10 with tax, they've put a $10 lien on your card, or maybe even
a larger lien like $12.50 or $15, to ensure that your card can
cover whatever tip you write. Then you sign it, they take it,
and they make the actual charge for whatever amount you actually
wrote down (with tip).

So basically, this method allows vendors to protect themselves
against cards that won't go through without forcing you to pay
everything totally in advance. It's not perfect, but it seems
better than just charging everything instantly.

- Logan

Laurence Payne wrote:
I've heard reports that they do, however, have some system of
authorising a payment on your card, without actually taking it. This
can show as an unexpected lack of credit limit when you attempt
another payment.

I did a little bit of the software that did credit card processing
on a web site once, so here's what I know. Basically, the credit
card transactions go in two steps. In the first one, they do a
lien against the card. This doesn't, if I remember right, require
very much in the way of authorization. You're not supposed to need
a signature or anything like that. Then, at least with the credit
card processing service we were using, if you do nothing else for
24 hours (or some other period?), the lien is removed automatically.
Once you want to really make the charge, you need extra info (at
this point I think you are supposed to have the signature, or
whatever equivalent like billing address that you take for an online
purchase or phone purchase), and you do a second step to make the
charge go through. I believe the second step removes the lien
when it completes. Also, the lien ensures that you can make a
charge and that the customer's card won't be over the limit when
you do.

Based on this, I surmise that when you go into a restaurant and
pay by credit card, they take your card and run it to produce a
piece of paper for you to sign. At this point, if your meal is
$10 with tax, they've put a $10 lien on your card, or maybe even
a larger lien like $12.50 or $15, to ensure that your card can
cover whatever tip you write. Then you sign it, they take it,
and they make the actual charge for whatever amount you actually
wrote down (with tip).

So basically, this method allows vendors to protect themselves
against cards that won't go through without forcing you to pay
everything totally in advance. It's not perfect, but it seems
better than just charging everything instantly.

- Logan

On 28 Sep 2004 18:22:21 -0400, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

My dealer rented a Ferrari for the
NAMM show one year

You must have been scoring heavily :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On 28 Sep 2004 18:22:21 -0400, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

My dealer rented a Ferrari for the
NAMM show one year

You must have been scoring heavily :-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

Happenings like this are why I usually charge a pretty small deposit, say
$100. Big enough to make it an ouch to the client if they cancel within the
non-refundable time (usually 48 hours), as a deterrent, but small enough
that I can refund it easily if needed.

It was different back in the tape era, where I'd order several cases
depending on what the project looked like, but these days I'm not doing
that, so the deposit's pretty much a holding fee.

Peace,
Paul

Happenings like this are why I usually charge a pretty small deposit, say
$100. Big enough to make it an ouch to the client if they cancel within the
non-refundable time (usually 48 hours), as a deterrent, but small enough
that I can refund it easily if needed.

It was different back in the tape era, where I'd order several cases
depending on what the project looked like, but these days I'm not doing
that, so the deposit's pretty much a holding fee.

Peace,
Paul

Paul Stamler wrote:

Happenings like this are why I usually charge a pretty small deposit, say
$100. Big enough to make it an ouch to the client if they cancel within the
non-refundable time (usually 48 hours), as a deterrent, but small enough
that I can refund it easily if needed.

It was different back in the tape era, where I'd order several cases
depending on what the project looked like, but these days I'm not doing
that, so the deposit's pretty much a holding fee.

I think a key concept to keep deposits straight is to consider them to
be money held in escrow. When the deal closes the money moves, and until
then it sits, earning some interest and waiting for the deal to close.

--
ha

Paul Stamler wrote:

Happenings like this are why I usually charge a pretty small deposit, say
$100. Big enough to make it an ouch to the client if they cancel within the
non-refundable time (usually 48 hours), as a deterrent, but small enough
that I can refund it easily if needed.

It was different back in the tape era, where I'd order several cases
depending on what the project looked like, but these days I'm not doing
that, so the deposit's pretty much a holding fee.

I think a key concept to keep deposits straight is to consider them to
be money held in escrow. When the deal closes the money moves, and until
then it sits, earning some interest and waiting for the deal to close.

--
ha

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:18:28 GMT, George
wrote:

In article znr1096305968k@trad, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

But the agreement was that the deposit was refundable if cancelled
within 72 hours of the scheduled session. If the unluckyducky spent
money that wasn't really his, it's his obligation to repay it.

Iagree I missed that in his post
if I were him first thing I would do is make a new contract to reflect
the realities of what a deposit is for

The OP wrote "I have since changed my contract" but I wonder what
the new contract says.


my deposits are rather modest(usually about 20% of the job) but NOT
REFUNDABLE
George

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 20:18:28 GMT, George
wrote:

In article znr1096305968k@trad, (Mike Rivers)
wrote:

But the agreement was that the deposit was refundable if cancelled
within 72 hours of the scheduled session. If the unluckyducky spent
money that wasn't really his, it's his obligation to repay it.

Iagree I missed that in his post
if I were him first thing I would do is make a new contract to reflect
the realities of what a deposit is for

The OP wrote "I have since changed my contract" but I wonder what
the new contract says.


my deposits are rather modest(usually about 20% of the job) but NOT
REFUNDABLE
George

-----
http://mindspring.com/~benbradley

There is a very basic underlying statement that no one here has made
in these regards: One reason the client is pressuring you is because
he may not believe you're being honest with him. Have you told him the
whole story or are you trying to "spin" him like other posts have
suggested?
My suggestion is that you let him know what happened, how you are
going to fix it and meet all of the criteria that you set for yourself
ahead of time.
I have had a client who has booked my services every two years and
cancelled at the last minute. After the first year, when I refunded
the money, I placed a "deposits non-refundable" clause in my contract.
But I also opened a bank account for escrowed deposits. Not because I
want to hold on to money needlessly, but because I wanted to make sure
that this client (who, BTW, is a lawyer) couldn't come back to me and
put me in your situation. They have since repeated their
booking/cancelling scenario twice and I am expecting a call from them
again about next year.
I guess my point is that you always need to be honest with the client
in these kinds of situations and you need to have a fallback "Plan B"
for when honesty just won't help!

There is a very basic underlying statement that no one here has made
in these regards: One reason the client is pressuring you is because
he may not believe you're being honest with him. Have you told him the
whole story or are you trying to "spin" him like other posts have
suggested?
My suggestion is that you let him know what happened, how you are
going to fix it and meet all of the criteria that you set for yourself
ahead of time.
I have had a client who has booked my services every two years and
cancelled at the last minute. After the first year, when I refunded
the money, I placed a "deposits non-refundable" clause in my contract.
But I also opened a bank account for escrowed deposits. Not because I
want to hold on to money needlessly, but because I wanted to make sure
that this client (who, BTW, is a lawyer) couldn't come back to me and
put me in your situation. They have since repeated their
booking/cancelling scenario twice and I am expecting a call from them
again about next year.
I guess my point is that you always need to be honest with the client
in these kinds of situations and you need to have a fallback "Plan B"
for when honesty just won't help!

"j" wrote in message news:6uY5d.7152$Cn.6774@trnddc04...
Taylor,

Thanks. I agree on every point and take this *very* seriously.

Given that, do you really think it reasonable for him to expect *immediate*
return? I am thinking of deposits from landlords etc as a model.

I *am not* trying to be a shyster. I am not looking for a "loophole". Just
input on a crappy situation.In all honesty, I am a good guy in a tough spot.
I did an admittedly very stupid thing and have learned a lesson. Fiscally
this is a *hard* business and sometimes/most times it's hand to mouth.


So give him what you can right away. Explain your perspective - so he
understands how you lost money.

But ulitmately, if you didn't tell him the that some portion was
non-refundable, then you owe him the money.

One thing to consider, why take a deposit if it's refundable?

"j" wrote in message news:6uY5d.7152$Cn.6774@trnddc04...
Taylor,

Thanks. I agree on every point and take this *very* seriously.

Given that, do you really think it reasonable for him to expect *immediate*
return? I am thinking of deposits from landlords etc as a model.

I *am not* trying to be a shyster. I am not looking for a "loophole". Just
input on a crappy situation.In all honesty, I am a good guy in a tough spot.
I did an admittedly very stupid thing and have learned a lesson. Fiscally
this is a *hard* business and sometimes/most times it's hand to mouth.


So give him what you can right away. Explain your perspective - so he
understands how you lost money.

But ulitmately, if you didn't tell him the that some portion was
non-refundable, then you owe him the money.

One thing to consider, why take a deposit if it's refundable?

Check into a short-term loan from something like Ace Cash Express or
Check n' Go, assuming those are available where you're at. They will
do small loans up to a thousand dollars. You could try both places
and take out two of these. It's definitely worth a shot, anyway.


The worst possible advice that you could follow.

The interest rates at those places are astronomical, bordering on illegal.

If you have any kind of credit at all, go to a bank and use whatever you own
that they will take for collateral.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

Check into a short-term loan from something like Ace Cash Express or
Check n' Go, assuming those are available where you're at. They will
do small loans up to a thousand dollars. You could try both places
and take out two of these. It's definitely worth a shot, anyway.


The worst possible advice that you could follow.

The interest rates at those places are astronomical, bordering on illegal.

If you have any kind of credit at all, go to a bank and use whatever you own
that they will take for collateral.
Richard H. Kuschel
"I canna change the law of physics."-----Scotty

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.



wrote in message
om...
Hi All,

I am a longtime lurker, sometimes poster and am posting
semi-anonymously for this touchy business question.

I am in a bit of a pickle and would really appreciate your collective
take on the situation.

A couple months ago a band booked 3 weeks of time and after much
wrangling and holding time (and turning away other clients for said
time) I received a deposit check for the time.several thousand
dollars.

Two weeks ago the band calls and cancels.muttering a bunch of
different reasons..leaving me with a three week hole next month and
owing him a lot of money.

I have since changed my contract but the one this clients signed says
the deposit is refundable up to 72 hours before the session ( We are
the kind of place that usually books 2-5 days so this clause was
always fine.)

My big mistake was spending some of this money on bills and some
non-returnable gear.so I have been scrambling to get the money
together. I completely intend to pay this guy. He, however, is not
being uhm.understanding.to say the least.

So guys, what degree of busting ass, going into debt, not eating etc
do I owe this guy? What sort of timeframe is appropriate for returning
the money. They did cancel 4 weeks before the booked time so
technically I owe them but I guess I just don't know how soon I owe
them.

Btw, I have *tried* playing nice and appealing to his logic and
compassion but to no avail.


Thanks for *any* input on this.

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.



wrote in message
om...
Hi All,

I am a longtime lurker, sometimes poster and am posting
semi-anonymously for this touchy business question.

I am in a bit of a pickle and would really appreciate your collective
take on the situation.

A couple months ago a band booked 3 weeks of time and after much
wrangling and holding time (and turning away other clients for said
time) I received a deposit check for the time.several thousand
dollars.

Two weeks ago the band calls and cancels.muttering a bunch of
different reasons..leaving me with a three week hole next month and
owing him a lot of money.

I have since changed my contract but the one this clients signed says
the deposit is refundable up to 72 hours before the session ( We are
the kind of place that usually books 2-5 days so this clause was
always fine.)

My big mistake was spending some of this money on bills and some
non-returnable gear.so I have been scrambling to get the money
together. I completely intend to pay this guy. He, however, is not
being uhm.understanding.to say the least.

So guys, what degree of busting ass, going into debt, not eating etc
do I owe this guy? What sort of timeframe is appropriate for returning
the money. They did cancel 4 weeks before the booked time so
technically I owe them but I guess I just don't know how soon I owe
them.

Btw, I have *tried* playing nice and appealing to his logic and
compassion but to no avail.


Thanks for *any* input on this.

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:53:21 GMT, "j"
wrote:

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.


Glad you sorted it out.

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:53:21 GMT, "j"
wrote:

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.


Glad you sorted it out.

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

No. I wanted to know what sort of time frame was appropriate. As stated.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:53:21 GMT, "j"
wrote:

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a
friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think
the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.


Glad you sorted it out.

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

No. I wanted to know what sort of time frame was appropriate. As stated.

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:53:21 GMT, "j"
wrote:

Thanks for all the valuable input. I ended up borrowing money from a
friend
and the client is happy as a clam to have his deposit back.

My contract now states the deposit in non-refundable. I will, no doubt ,
refund deposits as it is bad business to keep peoples money but I think
the
change puts me in the position of being perceived as doing something nice
when I actually give them their money back. Also it let's me dictate the
terms and , if I am a little tight I can put it off if necessary.

Thanks again - except for the occasional moral grandstanding - you guys
provided some good grist for my mill - so to speak.


Glad you sorted it out.

As I read it, you had a straightforward business agreement which you
found it inconvenient to honour. Were you hoping for "moral" reasons
that would let you off the hook?

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

wrote:

I have since changed my contract but the one this clients signed
says the deposit is refundable up to 72 hours before the session

It is then fully refundable on cancellation.

My big mistake was spending some of this money on bills and some
non-returnable gear…so I have been scrambling to get the money
together. I completely intend to pay this guy. He, however,
is not being uhm…understanding…to say the least.

So guys, what degree of busting ass, going into debt, not eating
etc do I owe this guy?

Generally speaking this is when one would take a chat with the bank so
as to owe them money and have a clear business slate.

What sort of timeframe is appropriate for returning
the money. They did cancel 4 weeks before the booked
time so technically I owe them but I guess I just
don't know how soon I owe them.

As you describe it it is cash on cancellation. The conditions you
offered them is your risk of doing business.

Btw, I have *tried* playing nice and appealing to his logic and
compassion but to no avail.

Which could be because they have cancelled the booking due to being in
dire financial straits.

Thanks for *any* input on this.

Just stalling is not good, it comes across in a negative way, explaining
that you had ordered equipment for their special needs and need some,
clearly specified, time for making the refund because of this is less
bad for your business reputation than just stalling. My choice would be
to have that conversation with my bank rather than with the client ....
the possible win is to have them come back another time or at least not
cause badwill.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************

wrote:

I have since changed my contract but the one this clients signed
says the deposit is refundable up to 72 hours before the session

It is then fully refundable on cancellation.

My big mistake was spending some of this money on bills and some
non-returnable gear…so I have been scrambling to get the money
together. I completely intend to pay this guy. He, however,
is not being uhm…understanding…to say the least.

So guys, what degree of busting ass, going into debt, not eating
etc do I owe this guy?

Generally speaking this is when one would take a chat with the bank so
as to owe them money and have a clear business slate.

What sort of timeframe is appropriate for returning
the money. They did cancel 4 weeks before the booked
time so technically I owe them but I guess I just
don't know how soon I owe them.

As you describe it it is cash on cancellation. The conditions you
offered them is your risk of doing business.

Btw, I have *tried* playing nice and appealing to his logic and
compassion but to no avail.

Which could be because they have cancelled the booking due to being in
dire financial straits.

Thanks for *any* input on this.

Just stalling is not good, it comes across in a negative way, explaining
that you had ordered equipment for their special needs and need some,
clearly specified, time for making the refund because of this is less
bad for your business reputation than just stalling. My choice would be
to have that conversation with my bank rather than with the client ....
the possible win is to have them come back another time or at least not
cause badwill.


Kind regards

Peter Larsen

--
*******************************************
* My site is at: http://www.muyiovatki.dk *
*******************************************