Last weekend I was out with the wife/kid and my mom...shopping for
back to school clothes. This was out of town for me (down in NC).

We're at one of these large outdoor shoparama things, and towards the
end of the day, my wife and mom want to go into some purse store or
something, which just happens to be next door to the "BOSE Factory
Outlet Store" or something like that.

I'm hot and bored so I figure "I'll check this place out and see what
it's like".

So me and the boy go in there......JEEZZZZZ I've been less assaulted
by creepy sales droids in a car dealer than this place, talk about
high pressure!!

I get five steps into the place and a "sales counselor" walks up and
starts hitting on me.

I explain I'm just hanging out there while the fems shop next
door....but he's not taking no for an answer.

He asks me if I'm familiar with Bose and I say something to the effect
of "well actually I'm more into Pro Audio, and the name Bose in Pro
Audio is pretty much persona non-grata...we generally think that Bose
Pro Audio products suck"

So the guy keeps up the sales pap, to which I reply "well if I was
gonna drop some serious cash on a home stereo I figure I'd be looking
at Bryston and B&W or something like that".

Meanwhile I'm noticing they have these "mini stereo" things that are
like $2,000....I'm thinking "sheessshhhhh, who buys this crap!"

The guy offered to take me in the back as they were starting a demo
soon, and I finally said "well I'm sure it sounds nice but the way you
have this store setup in no way resembles anybody's actual living room
so I don't know how your demo would translate to an actual space where
this stuff would get used".

He finally backs off and shortly after that my wife and mom show up to
rescue me.

Anyway, the whole experience left me really turned off, it reminded me
a whole lot of car dealers....salespeople that know virtually nothing
about the product they sell, only about selling...those guys could be
selling refrigerators or mattresses, and maybe they were last week,
but it was a big turnoff for me.

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You just
sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

I remember many hi fi places that you could bring your favorite records
and listen without any salesmen closing in on you.

There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to a
salesman, he
was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they are doing
now?

Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You just sat
and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

That's the place. Could it have been you that talked me out of that dbx 119?


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to
a salesman, he was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Pennsylvania? I worked for Barclay Recording.


Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they
are doing now?

Something constructive, I hope.

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

you should have sat for the demo
it is text book salemenship, forward and aggressive
but a excellent demostration in selling technique
many do not have the knowledge and understanding that you have and Bose
salespersons see these people as lambs waiting for the slaughter!!
george

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You just
sat
and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

In article ,
wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You just
sat
and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?
--


Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT, they do
that by selling
without the selling and the profit there really is no point to being in
business
George

There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to a
salesman, he
was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they are doing
now?




running presidential elections
George

Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s.
You just sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

Duh!!! I said "listening room." Do you know what a listening room is?

There were two of them, one in Grand Central Station, and the other on Sixth
Avenue (I think). THEY WERE NOT RETAIL STORES. The idea was to give listeners a
quiet environment, free of sales pressure, for them to experience AR products
without competition from other products.

I think they were open about a decade.

There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to
a salesman, he was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Pennsylvania? I worked for Barclay Recording.


Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they
are doing now?

Something constructive, I hope.

Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT,
they do that by selling[.] [W]ithout the selling and the profit there
really is no point to being in business.

Capitalist pig.

The purpose of a business is to provide a useful product or service. If the
business is run intelligently and efficiently, the profit will usually follow.
Focusing solely on profit usually runs a business into the ground.

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby _increase_
sales.

George wrote:

you should have sat for the demo
it is text book salemenship, forward and aggressive
but a excellent demostration in selling technique
many do not have the knowledge and understanding that you have and Bose
salespersons see these people as lambs waiting for the slaughter!!
george

So have fun with it! They are highly trained to sell something under
a specific procedure. A number of times I have looked at stereo
equipment or VCRs and had the salespeople hook them up to run specific
tests. It is obvious from how challenging this can be for them that
they rarely are asked to do such things. But these are not Bose stores.
They obviously need to control how everything is done. Bring in your own
music. Get them to hook up all kinds of things. Or didn't Scott once
suggest a test where you get them to crank the system through the
speakers but listen with headphones for distortion caused by the
vibrations interacting with the CD player? Or just for fun, record a
CD with one channel with its polarity inverted. If the saleman can even
tell the differnce, get him to try to solve it. If not, just go and flip
the polarity of the wire leading to one speaker (though I am guessing
that Bose speakers do not hook up with bare wire) and you will have
fixed it. But then after that, everything else will sound wrong!

Rob R.

In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT,
they do that by selling[.] [W]ithout the selling and the profit there
really is no point to being in business.

Capitalist pig.

The purpose of a business is to provide a useful product or service. If the
business is run intelligently and efficiently, the profit will usually follow.
Focusing solely on profit usually runs a business into the ground.

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby _increase_
sales.

Again I disagree we are in business to make profit , other wise we call
it a hobby
George

In article
,
George wrote:

In article ,
"William Sommerwerck" wrote:

Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT,
they do that by selling[.] [W]ithout the selling and the profit there
really is no point to being in business.

Capitalist pig.

The purpose of a business is to provide a useful product or service. If the
business is run intelligently and efficiently, the profit will usually
follow.
Focusing solely on profit usually runs a business into the ground.

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby
_increase_
sales.



repeat that last line one more time for this capitalist pig, please
Thanks , my point exactly
George

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT,
they do that by selling[.] [W]ithout the selling and the profit there
really is no point to being in business.

Capitalist pig.

Nice... completely uncalled for and demonstrating absolutely no knowledge
of business in general but nice... good flourish there... only thing you
missed was a well-placed "**** off" in front.

The purpose of a business is to provide a useful product or service.

No, no, no.... commie ******* (see how I threw that in? That's where you
missed the '**** off' part in your post) the purpose of a business is to
provide a livelihood for those involved in either owning the business or
being employed by said business... otherwise it's called a "hobby", or a
"non-profit organization", or a "government agency". The livelihood thing &
the profit thing go hand in hand. NOW... as far as providing a useful
product or service, that's simply the vehicle by which said livelihood may
be earned.

Focusing solely on profit usually runs a business into the ground.

That part is true. Good for you... you get a red star (note the 2nd
opportunity taken to reference the "commie" thing again) to put on your
forehead for the rest of the day.

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby
_increase_
sales.

OK, fine... did it work? Seems like something called "advertising" would've
worked in that regard too... then they could've used the undoubtedly high
overhead associated with rents in a retail district, & having to staff up,
& pay utilities, etc to actually move some product. But silly me, there's
that capitalist thinking again... better to just give people a paycheck for
showing up - kinda like the old Soviet Union did (and there's the
trifecta) - without them having to earn it by OMIGOD! expecting them to
SELL something!

Fun thread! You game for more?
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

IN the early days of desktop computers, one of the first big chains found
that the less the sales people knew about computers, the more they sold. The
knowledgable guys gave the customer choices, and they got confused and had
to leave, "to think about it." Then they went to another store where the
salesguy said "Buy an IBM." They knew what IBM was, so they bought it.

The reason Analogeazer didn't buy was he knew too much. Most people know
nothing about audio, so, equally ignorant sales people are best for them.

Bill L

"Analogeezer" wrote in message
om...
Last weekend I was out with the wife/kid and my mom...shopping for
back to school clothes. This was out of town for me (down in NC).

We're at one of these large outdoor shoparama things, and towards the
end of the day, my wife and mom want to go into some purse store or
something, which just happens to be next door to the "BOSE Factory
Outlet Store" or something like that.

I'm hot and bored so I figure "I'll check this place out and see what
it's like".

So me and the boy go in there......JEEZZZZZ I've been less assaulted
by creepy sales droids in a car dealer than this place, talk about
high pressure!!

I get five steps into the place and a "sales counselor" walks up and
starts hitting on me.

I explain I'm just hanging out there while the fems shop next
door....but he's not taking no for an answer.

He asks me if I'm familiar with Bose and I say something to the effect
of "well actually I'm more into Pro Audio, and the name Bose in Pro
Audio is pretty much persona non-grata...we generally think that Bose
Pro Audio products suck"

So the guy keeps up the sales pap, to which I reply "well if I was
gonna drop some serious cash on a home stereo I figure I'd be looking
at Bryston and B&W or something like that".

Meanwhile I'm noticing they have these "mini stereo" things that are
like $2,000....I'm thinking "sheessshhhhh, who buys this crap!"

The guy offered to take me in the back as they were starting a demo
soon, and I finally said "well I'm sure it sounds nice but the way you
have this store setup in no way resembles anybody's actual living room
so I don't know how your demo would translate to an actual space where
this stuff would get used".

He finally backs off and shortly after that my wife and mom show up to
rescue me.

Anyway, the whole experience left me really turned off, it reminded me
a whole lot of car dealers....salespeople that know virtually nothing
about the product they sell, only about selling...those guys could be
selling refrigerators or mattresses, and maybe they were last week,
but it was a big turnoff for me.

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s.
You just sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

Duh!!! I said "listening room." Do you know what a listening room is?

Yes, I do... it's a place where companies throw money into the bottmless
pit of "no return on investment" it's a place where they COULD be moving
product - as well as providing a pleasant environment wherein people could
experience their offerings in a relaxed manner - but choose not to, so that
their resources can be sucked dry by having to fund OTHER venues through
which they actually sell their stuff. Please reference Gateway computer
stores... a nice, relaxed place where you could look at/play with/demo
their computers, but not actually buy something & take it home - something
that people have, oddly enough, become accustomed to expecting from a
"STORE"... any of those places left? Nope.


There were two of them, one in Grand Central Station, and the other on
Sixth
Avenue (I think). THEY WERE NOT RETAIL STORES. The idea was to give
listeners a
quiet environment, free of sales pressure, for them to experience AR
products
without competition from other products.

Barnes & Noble is essentially a "reading room", but you can buy books
there, too, you know (and Starbucks coffee). Think they'll be in business
for longer than AR?

I think they were open about a decade.

OOPS! Yeah, I guess that answers my last question.
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

wrote in message

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You
just sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

Good question.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vi...ges/79742.html

1959 Opening of the AR Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC.

1974 Closing of the Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC

15 years, not a bad run for Audio.

In article 4NwWc.1231$9P.136@trnddc04,
"Bill Lorentzen" wrote:

IN the early days of desktop computers, one of the first big chains found
that the less the sales people knew about computers, the more they sold. The
knowledgable guys gave the customer choices, and they got confused and had
to leave, "to think about it." Then they went to another store where the
salesguy said "Buy an IBM." They knew what IBM was, so they bought it.

The reason Analogeazer didn't buy was he knew too much. Most people know
nothing about audio, so, equally ignorant sales people are best for them.

selling is far eyond knowing the technical aspects of your lines
it is way more about addressing basic hunam traits of wanting to feel
smart,doing the right thing,feeling good about oneself, fitting into a
desired group
the salesman who can identify these needs in the buyer and make the
buyer feel he is satisfying one of these needs will get the sale
some buyers are very spec and tech orientated and for them a salesman
with "the facts and just the facts" works best
most buyers are not as much concerned if you know a comb filter from a
hair dryer.
they are trying to do one of the above basic human traits,and if you
can help them to that end , a career in sales can be very fulfilling
both finacially and personally
if you can not see these needs as primary to the sale, or are
uncomfortable getting so far into your customers mindset, you best stick
to applications support.
George

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
wrote in message

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You
just sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

Good question.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vi...ges/79742.html

1959 Opening of the AR Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC.

1974 Closing of the Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC

15 years, not a bad run for Audio.

Thanks, Arny... no, that's not bad... bet they could have stayed up longer
if they'd used those high-cost facilities to move some product as well, but
no that's not too bad.

And imagine, you managed to convey that info without having said
"capitalist pig" or anything remotely similar.
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

wrote in message
m
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
wrote in message

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s.
You just sat and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?

Good question.

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/vi...ges/79742.html

1959 Opening of the AR Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC.

1974 Closing of the Music Room in Grand Central Terminal, NYC

15 years, not a bad run for Audio.

Thanks, Arny... no, that's not bad... bet they could have stayed up
longer if they'd used those high-cost facilities to move some product
as well, but no that's not too bad.

I would say that when they opened the place, they had enough mind share and
market share and were successful enough at taking it to the bank, that the
investment in an image place probably paid off. People got turned on to high
fidelity sound at Grand Central station, and then actually bought the
equipment at the specialty store on the other end of the line, closer to
home. You don't want to try to carry a pair or even just one AR3s home on
the train!

By the time 1974 rolled around, high fidelity was a completely different
business. They lost their dominant position. Audio stopped being high tech.
More audio was being sold in appliance stores than specialty stores.

And imagine, you managed to convey that info without having said
"capitalist pig" or anything remotely similar.

Some people need to get back on their meds, I guess.

On 23 Aug 2004 14:18:09 -0700,
(Analogeezer) wrote:

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Their sales model is not designed nor intended for audio savvy like
you. It's actually logical that you were turned off by that place.
Bose is a successful and profitable company so their agressive
approach seems to be working for them.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to
a salesman, he was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Pennsylvania? I worked for Barclay Recording.


Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they
are doing now?

Something constructive, I hope.

You worked for Clay?
What's he doing now? As I recall, he decided not to pursue neurosurgery.

That store was amazing.

wrote in message
m...

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby
_increase_
sales.

OK, fine... did it work? Seems like something called "advertising"
would've
worked in that regard too...

They did both; AR and Dynaco advertised in all the hi-fi mags of the day,
and ran their salons in a couple of big cities as well.

Did it work? The speakers sold like hotcakes; lots and lots and lots of
people's first decent stereo was a pair of AR2ax's with a Dynaco amp and
preamp (and maybe turntable too), and lots of lawyers and psychiatrists had
AR3s. Many of them are still in service after a few woofer refoams. Oh, and
I believe the Dynaco Stereo 70 is still the best-selling power amp of all
time.

Yes, it worked.

Peace,
Paul

On 23 Aug 2004 14:18:09 -0700,
(Analogeezer) wrote:

The guy offered to take me in the back as they were starting a demo
soon, and I finally said "well I'm sure it sounds nice but the way you
have this store setup in no way resembles anybody's actual living room
so I don't know how your demo would translate to an actual space where
this stuff would get used".

Pity you didn't stay for the demo. It sounds as if you walked in to
the shop with preconceptions about Bose gear, walked out with the
same, having scored a few points off the sales droid. Wouldn't it
have been interesting to actually HEAR the latest offerings from Bose?

(I agree with you about the domestic Bose product I've heard. But
I've not stopped listening:-)

CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm
"Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect

George wrote in message ...
In article ,
wrote:

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
Exactly the opposite of the AR/Dyna listening rooms in the '60s. You just
sat
and listened. No one tried to sell you anything.

And they stayed open for how long...?
--


Good point the function of "most" business is to make PROFIT, they do
that by selling
without the selling and the profit there really is no point to being in
business
George

Yeah the problem is most salesman are idiots, they never adapt their
sales technique to the customer.

I get this crap every time I buy a car...I know a helluva lot about
cars and make that plain up front, yet they give me the same stupid
spiel they give everyone.

I once had a woman salesdroid tell me the truck I was looking at was
safer because it had a "dual diagonal braking system, where if one set
of brake circuits go out the second one kicks in".

I looked at her and said "well that's been pretty much standard on
every car made since about 1957".

The guy at the Bose store was sticking to his script, no matter what I
said.

If these people would adapt to the customer they'd sell a lot more
product.

Analogeezer

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message

wrote in message
m...

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby
_increase_
sales.

OK, fine... did it work? Seems like something called "advertising"
would've worked in that regard too...

They did both; AR and Dynaco advertised in all the hi-fi mags of the
day, and ran their salons in a couple of big cities as well.

Did it work? The speakers sold like hotcakes; lots and lots and lots
of people's first decent stereo was a pair of AR2ax's with a Dynaco
amp and preamp (and maybe turntable too), and lots of lawyers and
psychiatrists had AR3s. Many of them are still in service after a few
woofer refoams. Oh, and I believe the Dynaco Stereo 70 is still the
best-selling power amp of all time.

Yes, it worked.

FWIW, agreed. AR isn't dominant today for business reasons that have very
little to do with how effectively their products were brought to market. The
market those products served changed, immensely. The mainstream of home hifi
went from high tech to appliances. In their day, AR3s helped define the high
end of audio.

George wrote in message ...

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

you should have sat for the demo
it is text book salemenship, forward and aggressive
but a excellent demostration in selling technique
many do not have the knowledge and understanding that you have and Bose
salespersons see these people as lambs waiting for the slaughter!!
george

No the guy was a ****ty salesman, he should have immediately realized
I wasn't some dumb yuppie and altered his sales pitch...but all he had
to work with was the script he learned at the "Bose Factory Training".

He might as well been trying to sell me a toaster.

Analogeezer

Jason W wrote in message . ..
On 23 Aug 2004 14:18:09 -0700,
(Analogeezer) wrote:

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Their sales model is not designed nor intended for audio savvy like
you. It's actually logical that you were turned off by that place.
Bose is a successful and profitable company so their agressive
approach seems to be working for them.

Well I'd say they have succeeded through massive advertising and all
that direct marketing they do.

When's the last time you saw a stereo gear ad in a magazineon or
TV...that stuff is more or less commodity stuff now.

Bose's problem will be once they saturate the market of yuppie twerps
that actually think they are buying something special they will be
unable to sustain the advertising and the storefront that's working so
well for them now.

Mark my words, the same thing will happen to Harley Davidson, they are
selling to a similiar crowd these days....in fact across the shopping
place from the Bose store was a Harley dealer...well two. One sold
bikes, the other one sold clothes.

The clothes store was as large as the bike store.

Analogeezer

p.s. My old boss bought a Audi A4 a few years back, total Piece of
crap it broke all the time.

he paid extra for the package with the "Bose Stereo". He traded the
car in (one thing it did was it kept puking out oil) and bought a
Honda Accord with the stock stereo.

he told me he likes the Honda stereo better than the one in the Audi

In article ,
(Analogeezer) wrote:

George wrote in message
...

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

you should have sat for the demo
it is text book salemenship, forward and aggressive
but a excellent demostration in selling technique
many do not have the knowledge and understanding that you have and Bose
salespersons see these people as lambs waiting for the slaughter!!
george

No the guy was a ****ty salesman, he should have immediately realized
I wasn't some dumb yuppie and altered his sales pitch...but all he had
to work with was the script he learned at the "Bose Factory Training".

He might as well been trying to sell me a toaster.

Analogeezer

perhaps, maybe even likely
but I do believe Bose has developed a sales training program that works
on "most" and you will never sell everyone
you wouln't have bought regardless IMO
so him/her adapting was not going to close a sale with you
George

Analogeezer wrote:
George wrote in message ...

Even if I was a fan of the stuff I would have been horrified at the
pressure tactics they lay on at that place...the whole thing just
really ****ed me off.

Analogeezer

you should have sat for the demo
it is text book salemenship, forward and aggressive
but a excellent demostration in selling technique
many do not have the knowledge and understanding that you have and Bose
salespersons see these people as lambs waiting for the slaughter!!
george

No the guy was a ****ty salesman, he should have immediately realized
I wasn't some dumb yuppie and altered his sales pitch...but all he had
to work with was the script he learned at the "Bose Factory Training".

He might as well been trying to sell me a toaster.

Right. Altering your sales pitch isn't worth the effort, though, when
most customers are all the same. It might get you a little bit more sales,
but not much. And they can give the standard pitch to five bozos off the
street in the time they would spend talking to you. The name of the game
is getting in, delivering the pitch, closing the sale, and getting to the
next one as quickly as possible. There are so many suckers lined up that
it is not worth spending any time dealing with anyone else.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

Mark my words, the same thing will happen to Harley Davidson, they are
selling to a similiar crowd these days....in fact across the shopping
place from the Bose store was a Harley dealer...well two. One sold
bikes, the other one sold clothes.

The clothes store was as large as the bike store.

Analogeezer

our papers are filled with used Harleys from rubs that thought they
could be bikes by buying something that looked like a "real" bike
resale values are plummeting as Harley is pumping more and more bikes
into the hands of wanna-bes
you can get a really clean late model superglide for under 7000.00 now
when they get to about 3000 I might even consider one
I am guessing about 2 more years
George

"Paul Stamler" wrote in message
...
wrote in message
m...

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image, and thereby
_increase_
sales.

OK, fine... did it work? Seems like something called "advertising"
would've
worked in that regard too...

They did both; AR and Dynaco advertised in all the hi-fi mags of the day,
and ran their salons in a couple of big cities as well.

Did it work? The speakers sold like hotcakes;

Yes, I remember seeing some here & there, but at this point in the thread
it's more about giving a little "Biz101" info to a certain poster.
--


Neil Henderson
Saqqara Records
http://www.saqqararecords.com

There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to
a salesman, he was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Pennsylvania? I worked for Barclay Recording.

That's the place. Could it have been you that talked me out of that dbx 119?

Was your salesman bearded and obnoxious? That was me. I worked in sales from
late 1977 through 1978, and perhaps some in 1979 and early 1980, at which point
BR&E went out of business. Several ex-customers said they appreciated that we
usually knew what we were talking about. Many also enjoyed Lou Maresca's
absolutely devastating Donald Fagen impersonation.

In any case, I appreciate the compliment, regardless of which employee deserves
it. (All did, as far as I was concerned.) I would not normally have tried to
talk a customer out of a purchase (we worked on commission), unless I thought it
was inappropriate, or wouldn't do what you expected.

The point of the showrooms was to promote AR's image,
and thereby _increase_ sales.

OK, fine... did it work? Seems like something called "advertising"
would've worked in that regard too... then they could've used the
undoubtedly high overhead associated with rents in a retail district,
& having to staff up, & pay utilities, etc to actually move some product.

I don't know if it worked -- that is, if it generated sufficient new sales to
offset the costs of operation.

40 years ago, rents were probably much lower than they are today, with respect
to the total cost of running a business. (I don't know that as a fact.) I would
guess that the total cost of operation for both sites was $3000 a month, which
as focused advertising (you're demonstrating your product to self-selected
potential customers).

AR was, of course, a major advertiser in the hi-fi print media of that era.

Note, also, the canny choice of locations. Neither was in Boston. Both were in
New York, one in a train terminal, the other in one of Manhattan's principal
retail districts, through which people from all over the country passed each
day. Listening to hi-fi would be a good way to kill a few minutes.


But silly me, there's that capitalist thinking again...

Yup. Money, money, money, money, money. Not self-improvement, not benefitting
your employees or community, but simply making money to line your own pockets.

You ought to read "Land's Polaroid" and/or "Insisting on the Impossible" to see
what happens (both good and bad, but mostly good) when someone runs a company
without putting "profit for its own sake" at the top of the list of "things to
do today." Dr. Land was extremely wealthy and idolized by most of his employees.
And not because he had a lot of money.


better to just give people a paycheck for showing up - kinda like the
old Soviet Union did (and there's the trifecta) - without them having
to earn it by OMIGOD! expecting them to SELL something!

The AR listening rooms didn't sell anything -- except the company's image and
the "quality" of its products. There were one or two attendants who answered
questions, but did not initiate sales, as there were none.

These attendants not only had to be knowledgable, but had to make a good
appearance and treat people well. In other words, they had to be good salesmen,
even though they're weren't selling anything. That hardly falls into the
category of "getting a paycheck for showing up."


Fun thread! You game for more?

Nope. I'm in interested in advice from people who run their businesses for no
other reason than to make money. Your values and morality are plain.

Did it work? The speakers sold like hotcakes; lots and lots and lots of
people's first decent stereo was a pair of AR2ax's with a Dynaco amp and
preamp (and maybe turntable too), and lots of lawyers and psychiatrists had
AR3s. Many of them are still in service after a few woofer refoams. Oh, and
I believe the Dynaco Stereo 70 is still the best-selling power amp of all
time.

Yes, it worked.

Up to a point. Dyna is gone, and AR no longer exists as the company it once was.
I know of no business that has public-demo rooms that _do not_ initiate sales.

Yes, I remember seeing some here & there, but at this point in the
thread it's more about giving a little "Biz101" info to a certain poster.

There are such things as morality and ethics.

Everyone has to make a living, and every business has to at least "break even,"
or it eventually goes out of business. But to run a business solely to make
money cannot be justified.

IN the early days of desktop computers, one of the first big chains found
that the less the sales people knew about computers, the more they sold. The
knowledgable guys gave the customer choices, and they got confused and had
to leave, "to think about it." Then they went to another store where the
salesguy said "Buy an IBM." They knew what IBM was, so they bought it.

This is infortunately true, and one of the reasons I don't like selling.
Salesmanship is too often about convincing the customer to buy something, rather
than helping him/her make the right decision.

I once worked with a guy who was the least-knowledgable of anyone in the store
about what we sold. He sold more than any of us.

Yes, I do... it's a place where companies throw money into the bottmless
pit of "no return on investment" it's a place where they COULD be moving
product - as well as providing a pleasant environment wherein people could
experience their offerings in a relaxed manner - but choose not to, so that
their resources can be sucked dry by having to fund OTHER venues through
which they actually sell their stuff. Please reference Gateway computer
stores... a nice, relaxed place where you could look at/play with/demo
their computers, but not actually buy something & take it home - something
that people have, oddly enough, become accustomed to expecting from a
"STORE"... any of those places left? Nope.

You can't draw an exact parallel. AR was not in retail sales; Gateway was. AR
could not be competing with its own dealers.

There was a place in Wynnewood that was like that. If you talked to
a salesman, he was far more interested in talking you out of a sale.

Pennsylvania? I worked for Barclay Recording.

Mind you these guys were very knowledgable. I wonder what they
are doing now?

Something constructive, I hope.


You worked for Clay?
What's he doing now? As I recall, he decided not to pursue neurosurgery.

Dr. Barclay moved to Moosebreath and worked for Crown for about 15 years. They
dumped him (for reasons I don't understand), which was surely Crown's loss. Clay
was a brilliant salesman and promoter. I think he told me what he was doing, but
I don't remember.

That store was amazing.

Is that a compliment? grin

If you want to take this off-line, write me.