why does two hours of Mike Moore get you all so nervous, in most major
markes there are hundreds of hours a week of right wing propaganda Via
Limbaugh, hannity,Savage,Liddy and crew
in my town ,SyracuseNY, there is (at least)105 hours of right wing talk
radio programming a week
and you let 2 measly hours of Mike Moore get your panties all in a
bunch!!
Talk about dishiong it out but can't take it
give it a rest your side is more than adaquated represented
George

Yeah, two hours of crap sucks, no matter who's putting it out there. Moore's
just happens to achieve a new level of bull****, so his 2 hours is having
it's 15 minutes.

Doug Joyce
Animix Productions
Durango, CO




"George" wrote in message
...
why does two hours of Mike Moore get you all so nervous, in most major
markes there are hundreds of hours a week of right wing propaganda Via
Limbaugh, hannity,Savage,Liddy and crew
in my town ,SyracuseNY, there is (at least)105 hours of right wing talk
radio programming a week
and you let 2 measly hours of Mike Moore get your panties all in a
bunch!!
Talk about dishiong it out but can't take it
give it a rest your side is more than adaquated represented
George

George
.....there is (at least)105 hours of right wing talk
radio programming a week
and you let 2 measly hours of Mike Moore get your panties all in a
bunch!!
Talk about dishiong it out but can't take it
give it a rest your side is more than adaquated represented

This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not. The leadership of the National Democratic Party has decided it is, in
deciding to embrace Moore and this movie. The only way I can account for such
actions is they have a political death wish, or they think the public is so
damn stupid they will beleive it, or that they are so "Anybody but Bush" they
wil excuse it.

Christopher Hitchens critique of Moore's work represents the view from the
left, not the rightwing. Maybe if you "did links" as you put it, you'd learn
something.

http://slate.msn.com/id/2102723

"To describe this film as dishonest and demagogic would almost be to promote
those terms to the level of respectability. Fahrenheit 9/11 .... is also a
spectacle of abject political cowardice masking itself as a demonstration of
"dissenting" bravery."

And

"Perhaps vaguely aware that his movie so completely lacks gravitas, Moore
concludes with a sonorous reading of some words from George Orwell. The words
are taken from 1984 and consist of a third-person analysis of a hypothetical,
endless, and contrived war between three superpowers. The clear intention, as
clumsily excerpted like this (...) is to suggest that there is no moral
distinction between the United States, the Taliban, and the Baath Party and
that the war against jihad is about nothing. If Moore had studied a bit more,
or at all, he could have read Orwell really saying, and in his own voice, the
following:

"The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are
simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their
thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists,
whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western
democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. Pacifist propaganda usually boils
down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely
at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do
not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely
against Britain and the United States €¦"

And that's just from Orwell's Notes on Nationalism in May 1945. A short
word of advice: In general, it's highly unwise to quote Orwell if you are
already way out of your depth on the question of moral equivalence."
Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

WillStG wrote:



This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or


Wow. I don't recall ever reading posts as full of it as yours. Do you
have any idea what a fool you are making of yourself?

Geez, some people's kids.

WillStG wrote:

This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.


Apparently it is.

Welcome to politics.

Please vote for the one you feel lies less.


Don

George wrote in message ...
why does two hours of Mike Moore get you all so nervous, in most major
markes there are hundreds of hours a week of right wing propaganda Via
Limbaugh, hannity,Savage,Liddy and crew
in my town ,SyracuseNY, there is (at least)105 hours of right wing talk
radio programming a week
and you let 2 measly hours of Mike Moore get your panties all in a
bunch!!
Talk about dishiong it out but can't take it
give it a rest your side is more than adaquated represented
George

you can't expect the right-wing to flap their gums that much and just
keep their traps shut about something that's getting as much attention
as Moore's movie.

let's be realistic here!

WillStG at ospam wrote on 7/1/04 3:36 PM:
This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.

it's worked real well for 4 years of actual government operations,
Again, I'll call George's initial sentiment... why should it be so
intolerable to have a look at it?


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

Don Cooper wrote:


WillStG wrote:


This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.



Apparently it is.

Welcome to politics.

Please vote for the one you feel lies less.


Don

I just love how the right wingers are so outraged about Moore's "lies",
but they don't care that we were lied to by the President about WMDs.
They don't remember when Rummy said that they KNEW where the weapons
were, or the MANY proven lies (not just mistaken intel).They hold a
film-maker to a higher standard of honesty than the president. A movie
that has what they think are lies in it is worse to them than a war
based on lies that thousands die in.
Queso

"BT" wrote in message
...
WillStG wrote:
This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a
series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is
ok or

Wow. I don't recall ever reading posts as full of it as yours. Do you
have any idea what a fool you are making of yourself?

I always thought lies, distortions and fabrications were a long honored
tradition in politics.

Sean

On Thu, 1 Jul 2004 15:36:09 -0400, WillStG wrote
(in article ):

And that's just from Orwell's Notes on Nationalism in May 1945. A short
word of advice: In general, it's highly unwise to quote Orwell if you are
already way out of your depth on the question of moral equivalence."
Will Miho

Orwell has always been a favourite of the Neo-Liberals. Look at his concepts
in "Down and Out in Paris and London". His right wing "Satire" Animal farm.

And the clinch in "where George Orwell is coming from" is his attributing
"Engsoc" to the currant state of affairs in the UK.

Well it wasn't English Scocialism that brought them two identicle political
parties, and cameras in the streets everywhere, Or the Illusion of self
determination with "privatisation". It was Neo-Liberal Thatcherisim.

It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.

OK......



---------------------------------------
"I know enough to know I don't know enough"

"WillStG" wrote in message
...

snip and still not one of these commentators refutes a single allegation
of Moore's with hard fact.

jb

George, I didn't know you were a hockey fan.

: )



Don

WillStG wrote:

This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok
or not.

It must be OK, since it's a fulltime charter for Fox News.



Christopher Hitchens critique of Moore's work represents the view from the
left, not the rightwing.

Stop it already with the Hitchens links. And again, what exactly is he left of?

Will starts the dominoes falling, and then goes on vacation. Not fair!

(Or balanced. )

: )


Don

Kurt Albershardt

It must be OK, since it's a fulltime charter for Fox News.

Well, while it's true we had a Democrat Party strategist on yesterday who
said (and I couldn't believe it) -
"John Kerry has actually killed men with his hands, unlike George Bush ... "

I doubt all Dems would stretch the truth like that. I mean I'm pretty
sure Kerry used a weapon, not his bare hands.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

political troll!

paul

"George" wrote in message
...
why does two hours of Mike Moore get you all so nervous, in most major
markes there are hundreds of hours a week of right wing propaganda Via
Limbaugh, hannity,Savage,Liddy and crew
in my town ,SyracuseNY, there is (at least)105 hours of right wing talk
radio programming a week
and you let 2 measly hours of Mike Moore get your panties all in a
bunch!!
Talk about dishiong it out but can't take it
give it a rest your side is more than adaquated represented
George

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
Kurt Albershardt

It must be OK, since it's a fulltime charter for Fox News.

Well, while it's true we had a Democrat Party strategist on
yesterday who
said (and I couldn't believe it) -
"John Kerry has actually killed men with his hands, unlike George Bush ...
"

I doubt all Dems would stretch the truth like that. I mean I'm
pretty
sure Kerry used a weapon, not his bare hands.


You guys have to bend over backwards to make anything out of anything. It's
easy for us.

jb

paul wrote:
political troll!


Political troll troll!

WillStG wrote:


Well, while it's true we had a Democrat Party strategist


"Democratic" Will. An adjective.


Don

WillStG wrote:


This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.

Whether or not its ok in your book, its been SOP since the dawn of
humanity and its not about to change anytime soon

paul at wrote on 7/2/04 3:19 PM:

political troll!


ummmm Paul.... George isn't a troll.
You need to know that.
Makes reading this group easier.

Pete Dimsman at wrote on 7/2/04 3:34 PM:



paul wrote:
political troll!


Political troll troll!


NOW we're getting somewhere!

steve at wrote on 7/2/04 7:32 PM:



WillStG wrote:


This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.

Whether or not its ok in your book, its been SOP since the dawn of
humanity and its not about to change anytime soon

And in all that time there've been two camps:
those who think it's ok and those who know it isn't.
the former tend towards sheep and the latter towards patriots.

--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

steve wrote:

WillStG wrote:


This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.


Whether or not its ok in your book, its been SOP since the dawn of
humanity and its not about to change anytime soon


Whatever "lows" the dems can be accused of, you can bet that the Bushy's
will stoop lower. Like this:

____________________________________________

"Bush campaign wants church lists"

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -- President Bush, seeking to mobilize religious
conservatives for his reelection campaign, has asked church-going
volunteers to turn over church membership directories, campaign
officials said on Thursday.

In a move sharply criticized both by religious leaders and civil
libertarians, the Bush-Cheney campaign has issued a guide listing about
two-dozen "duties" and a series of deadlines for organizing support
among conservative church congregations.
But the Rev. Richard Land, who deals with ethics and religious liberty
issues for the Southern Baptist Convention, a key Bush constituency,
said he was "appalled."

"First of all, I would not want my church directories being used that
way," he told Reuters in an interview, predicting failure for the Bush plan.

The conservative Protestant denomination, whose 16 million members
strongly backed Bush in 2000, held regular drives that encouraged
church-goers to "vote their values," said Land.

"But it's one thing for us to do that. It's a totally different thing
for a partisan campaign to come in and try to organize a church. A lot
of pastors are going to say: 'Wait a minute, bub'," he added.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/02/bush.churches.reut/index.html

_________________________________________________

Wait a minute in deed!

steve

WillStG wrote:

This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a
series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is ok or
not.

Whether or not its ok in your book, its been SOP since the dawn of
humanity and its not about to change anytime soon

At the politic fringes perhaps, but party leadership has always tried to
distance itself from the Moore variety of propaganda, which is plainly
dishonest.

Hitchens points out for example when he as a journalist leaves out part of
a quote like this ( .... ), you can be sure that he hasn't changed the
meaning of the quote by doing so. But Moore violates that basic trust over and
over in his filmmaking, which really is an insult to the viewer and shows bad
faith.

I tell you people are not that stupid, and when the swing voters get wind
of the Democratic leadership directly trying to use this kind of thing to
manipulate them, there will be a price to pay.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

WillStG wrote:

I tell you people are not that stupid, and when the swing voters get wind
of the Democratic leadership directly trying to use this kind of thing to
manipulate them, there will be a price to pay.


Hey, don't tell 'em, OK?


Don

WillStG wrote:

Democratic leadership


Thank you once again. It's just polite.

But don't take it from me, listen to William F. Buckley, who was a
Conservative intellectual back when that was popular:


I have an aversion to ’Democrat’ as an adjective. Dear Joe McCarthy used
to do that, and received a rebuke from this at-the-time 24-year-old. It
has the effect of injecting politics into language, and that should be
avoided. Granted there are difficulties, as when one desires to describe
a 'democratic' politician, and is jolted by possible ambiguity. But
English does that to us all the time, and it's our job to get the
correct meaning transmitted without contorting the language.


Thank you, William.




Don

In article ,
JoVee wrote:

paul at wrote on 7/2/04 3:19 PM:

political troll!


ummmm Paul.... George isn't a troll.
You need to know that.
Makes reading this group easier.



yeah I am way to tall to be considered a troll:-)
and I have never lived under a bridge
g

WillStG wrote:


This really isn't about left vs. right. It about whether using a
series
of lies, distortions and fabrications as part of a poltical campaign is
ok or
not.

One only has to watch the Bush campaign commercials to realize the
Republicans think it's OK to use lies, distortions and fabrications. It
sickens me to imagine a liberal stooping as low as the
Republicans....thankfully Kerry is running a decent and honest campaign and
hasn't followed suit.

"WillStG" wrote in message I tell you people
are not that stupid, and when the swing voters get wind
of the Democratic leadership directly trying to use this kind of thing to
manipulate them, there will be a price to pay.

What happens if the swing voters get wind of the outright lying in every
Bush advertisement? Almost to a person, every time I query someone who says
they dislike Kerry the only negative reasons they can come up with are
verbatim accusations lifted directly from the Bush negative ad campaigns. I
find that most of these people don't really know ANYTHING about Kerry. I
even heard one of them tell me they disliked Kerry because he copied Bush by
adding "I approve of this message" to his spots! When I told him that was
now required in political advertising he was embarrassed to say the least
and blown away by how easily impressionable he was.

Don Cooper I have an aversion to
Democrat as an adjective. Dear Joe McCarthy used
to do that, and received a rebuke from this at-the-time 24-year-old. It
has the effect of injecting politics into language, and that should be
avoided.

Sorry, but your suggestion it's McCarthy-like to say Democrat Party is
your own problem Don, and really a stupid tghing to suggest. Why don't you
go after JayZ or the dead Tupac or someone if you wish to be the linguist
police.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

"Charles Tomaras"
What happens if the swing voters get wind of the outright lying in every
Bush advertisement?

If they do that, I would say it is not good for America or for the
Republican Party. But so far every debate I have heard over supposed "lies"
in Bush ads just haven't made the case, it's all been a stretch. I listen to
the debates from Party reps almost every day.

Hey, the new Campaign finance laws, what a croc, huh...

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Off the Morning Show! & sleepin' In... / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

WillStG wrote:

Sorry, but your suggestion it's McCarthy-like to say Democrat Party is
your own problem Don, and really a stupid tghing to suggest. Why don't you
go after JayZ or the dead Tupac or someone if you wish to be the linguist
police.


William F. Buckley's. Not mine.


Don

WillStG wrote:

Sorry, but your suggestion it's McCarthy-like to say Democrat Party is
your own problem Don, and really a stupid tghing to suggest. Why don't you
go after JayZ or the dead Tupac or someone if you wish to be the linguist
police.


Three more things, Will.

McCarthy would fit in quite well in today's Republican Party.

Tupac is gone, so he can't speak at all.

I figure that you are intelligent, and want to sound that way. If you
told me that I unknowingly insulted you by calling you a insert ethnic
slur here, I'd apologize, and avoid using that word.


Happy Independence Day, you Independent, you.


Don

"Pete Dimsman" wrote in message
...
paul wrote:
political troll!


Political troll troll!

lol, I like that!
;-)

paul

And if i shoot someone i'm not a murderer. After all, I'm a good guy and
productive MOST of the time...

This NG is almost dead due to the political posts. A good productive guy who
trolls is still a troll while he is trolling.

From reading MOST of Georges posts, he is so disturbed by the political
situation in this country that he can't concentrate on the ONTOPIC subjects
here at R.A.P.

My daddy told me to call a troll a troll. He would say, "if it looks like a
troll, and it smells like a troll, then if it posts like a troll, its
probably a troll"

I call 'em like I see 'em. Anyone who's offended is free to post it in
alt.i.dont.give.a.damn.

paul

"JoVee" wrote in message
...
paul at wrote on 7/2/04 3:19 PM:

political troll!


ummmm Paul.... George isn't a troll.
You need to know that.
Makes reading this group easier.

In article wsBFc.8768$151.7029@fed1read02,
"paul" wrote:

And if i shoot someone i'm not a murderer. After all, I'm a good guy and
productive MOST of the time...

This NG is almost dead due to the political posts. A good productive guy who
trolls is still a troll while he is trolling.

From reading MOST of Georges posts, he is so disturbed by the political
situation in this country that he can't concentrate on the ONTOPIC subjects
here at R.A.P.

My daddy told me to call a troll a troll. He would say, "if it looks like a
troll, and it smells like a troll, then if it posts like a troll, its
probably a troll"

I call 'em like I see 'em. Anyone who's offended is free to post it in
alt.i.dont.give.a.damn.

Paul it does not upset me,just don't call me"later for dinner",
but trolling is usually the first poster who starts the flame war,
Or trolls for people "hot" buttons
what I is basicly someone who has reached the breaking point from all
the bull**** that the right/republicans/christians/ have done to the
country founded on freedom of speech and Ideas
they have subverted anything good and turned it inside out to serve
thier selfish and sometimes evil desires
and yes I get hooked by the trollers, sorry I am a flawed human
but thats what I am. I am tired of these right wing kooks spitting on
America, trying to make every one into a white bread eating , instant
coffee drinnking, church going zombie that accepts any line of bull****
that is thrown at them
it started for me may 4th 1970

George

but thats what I am. I am tired of these right wing kooks spitting on
America, trying to make every one into a white bread eating , instant
coffee drinnking, church going zombie that accepts any line of bull****
that is thrown at them
it started for me may 4th 1970

I don't go to church, I eat wheat bread and I brew my own coffee :-)
Stereotypes are bad, umkay?

I am tired of these right wing kooks spitting on
America, trying to make every one into a white bread eating , instant
coffee drinnking, church going zombie that accepts any line of bull****
that is thrown at them

Just plain rude.....

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637