Hi - I am a songwriter looking to equip a very small home studio with
sufficient equipment to record my ideas. I am not looking for
mass-distribution quality, but don't want it to sound muddy or muffled
like the results of some of the small porta-studios I've heard
(however, could have been the recording engineer who made it sound
that way). I basically would just like to have nice, clear recordings
for my own personal use.

I am planning on using my PC for recording. I am upgrading my HD
substantially(or may purchase a 120 GB external drive - haven't
decided yet)but am shooting for at least 80 GB. I am lucky enough to
have access to quite a few software packages at a discounted price -
right now, I have Adobe Audition.

My main instrument is a piano - and I am purchasing a Roland FP-5
digital piano that has a USB port onboard...so I can plug that in
directly (right?). I also play guitar...most of my songs require
acoustic, but I have an acoustic/electric guitar. I also sing.

I have a background in audio prodution - took several college-level
multi-track recording classes on analog equipment (back then, there
wasn't a lot of digital stuff out there) and was quite proficient with
the technical stuff but haven't used it in years. I think I could pick
it up again quickly.

That said, here's what I need help with:
1) Sound card - is the consumer-based Creative Labs Audigy high-end
stuff (Platinum series) sufficient for what I want to do? Or is there
another card I should look into? My budget for a sound card is around
$200 - $250.

2) Microphone - I would like a good quality vocal mic for less than
$100. Although if you give me a good one in the $100 - $200 range and
feel that it is worth the extra money for the corresponding increase
in quality, I may spring for it.

3)If the above is a condenser mic, what kind of
pre-amp/power/equipment do I need in order to record vocals digitally?
Don't forget I am new to the whole digital domain.

4)Mixer - I am used to using a mixer with buttons and knobs, and think
I may prefer having an actual mixer as opposed to a virtual one - I
think there's that extra feeling of control. Someone mentioned a
Behringer combo mic pre-amp/mixer...any thoughts? Can I get something
decent under $100? $200?

5)Monitors - something below $200.

Am I missing any major items? Please advise. I appreciate your
assistance.

at the prices you quote, you can't do this.
Don;t worry about 'digital', as the biggest thing you have to get results
happens before you get there... mics and positions.

if you can do with one mic, something like the AKG 535 will do everything
you want. at ~$200 it's great. a pair would be better.
rememebr stand/boom/cable
it's a condensor and you need a preamp that'll power it. there's bunches out
there from dollars to thousands. any of the small format mixers in the $300
range would get you that.
alternative would be a dedicated "mic processor"... a single unit that
collects mic-power/preamp/eq/compression in one box. very useful.

as to monitors, you can't judge what you can't hear and so you need to buy
the most honest sounding speakers you canafford. these can be found in real
hifi shops or maybe in guitar/sound stores. you need to take good recordings
and compare. you'll need 2, and whether they come with the power amps INSIDE
them or you buy the amp separately, you're looking at a bit more than $200.
Closer to $1k.

If you can;t afford even this MINIMAL level of gear. WAIT.
save your dollars and then buy. getting simple junk now will make you hate
the job, hate the results, and waste what little money you have as well as
your time figting it unneccessarily, and time waiting LONGER to get more
money to get what you could have had in the beginnging.
Patience is the HARDEST thing here, yet the ONLY thing that will not screw
you.
You can Do This, and it'll be a treat.

--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

From: (Christine)
Organization: http://groups.google.com
Newsgroups: rec.audio.pro
Date: 27 Jun 2004 08:41:14 -0700
Subject: Help me equip my small beginner's studio

Hi - I am a songwriter looking to equip a very small home studio
(SNIP)
My main instrument is a piano - and I am purchasing a Roland FP-5
digital piano that has a USB port onboard...so I can plug that in
directly (right?). I also play guitar...most of my songs require
acoustic, but I have an acoustic/electric guitar. I also sing.
I have a background in audio prodution - took several college-level
multi-track recording classes

nothing you learned about mic technique and planning how to record and mix
is obsolete. It'll all come back to you.

In article writes:

1) Sound card - is the consumer-based Creative Labs Audigy high-end
stuff (Platinum series) sufficient for what I want to do? Or is there
another card I should look into? My budget for a sound card is around
$200 - $250.


2) Microphone - I would like a good quality vocal mic for less than
$100.

Don't forget I am new to the whole digital domain.


4)Mixer - I am used to using a mixer with buttons and knobs, and think
I may prefer having an actual mixer as opposed to a virtual one - I
think there's that extra feeling of control. Someone mentioned a
Behringer combo mic pre-amp/mixer...any thoughts? Can I get something
decent under $100? $200?

5)Monitors - something below $200.

Am I missing any major items?

Maybe a larger budget, or a rethinking of how you're going to work.

If you want to use a mixer, you need to have something to mix, which
means having a sound card with more than just a stereo output (like
the Audigy and a lot of others). This means more money. If you're only
going to record a few tracks, you might as well do this "in the box"
using the built-in mixer with Audition. It's as good as any mixer you
can get for $200, probably better than any overall, and only lacks the
knobs and buttons.

Condenser mics suitable for vocals that are within your $100 range are
plentiful but they're all different (even among different mics of the
same model) so you pretty much have to find the one that sounds good
with your voice. It probalby won't suck with your acoustic guitar.

My recommendation at your stage of the game would be to get a TASCAM
US-122 USB stero audio/MIDI interface. One can be had for as little as
$200 and it offers:

- Not fabulous, but two quite usable mic preamps, particularly for a
soloist
- Phantom power for condenser mics
- Headphone output with a volume control
- Best of all, true "no latency" monitoring when recording, with a
simple mixer that mixes your input (mic or an instrument plugged
into its input jacks) with the playback of recorded track on the
computer. You get almost as much control as with a hardware mixer
when recording one track at a time, as you'll almost certainly be
doing.
- Monitor output with a volume control, to connect to powered
monitors.

If you decide that you'd rather have knobs to control the mix,
Behringer makes a control surface for real cheap that should work well
with the combination.

I can't really recommend any monitors for under $200. In that price
range, everything is a compromise. But you can probalby find something
workable.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

In article
writes:

1) Sound card - is the consumer-based Creative Labs Audigy high-end
stuff (Platinum series) sufficient for what I want to do? Or is there
another card I should look into? My budget for a sound card is around
$200 - $250.


2) Microphone - I would like a good quality vocal mic for less than
$100.

Don't forget I am new to the whole digital domain.


4)Mixer - I am used to using a mixer with buttons and knobs, and think
I may prefer having an actual mixer as opposed to a virtual one - I
think there's that extra feeling of control. Someone mentioned a
Behringer combo mic pre-amp/mixer...any thoughts? Can I get something
decent under $100? $200?

5)Monitors - something below $200.

Am I missing any major items?

I agree with JoVee, save 4 or 5 thousand bucks and get something with quality
that will work and be useful for many years or, you can buy one thing at a
time. I've been doing that for 4 years now, I've been buying more pro level
gear than I think you may need but $600-$900 on speakers would do you good (you
can get a usable pair of actives for that). Maybe the same amount for a good
computer interface (you'll need only a few inputs and a stereo out), find a
room that you can do a bit of acoustic prepping. Maybe a Soundcraft Sprit
series mixer (look at attest $800 for that), get yourself a SM57 or two and
you'll be set.
While your saving you cash or buying one thing at a time you can read this
newsgroup on a daily basis for a while, there really is nothing like good old
fashion research for anything you don't know a lot about.

I agree with JoVee, save 4 or 5 thousand bucks and get something with quality
that will work and be useful for many years or, you can buy one thing at a
time. I've been doing that for 4 years now,

Oh heck I didin't mean to get read as THAT much money...
Mike's lo-end budget rolled in pretty good...

couple hundred on a cheap/adequate front-end

couple hundred on mic/stand/cable(s)

but then you're stuck with speakers to work through and those just don't
come that cheap. Maybe they've got a decent hifi/stereo they already
could/would use. I worked through my Dynaco A-25 speakers for years and the
stuff I did on them holds up fine.
still it looks like they could get going for a grand or so if they can use
current hifi to monitor quietly (like you should ANYWAY...) and add another
500-1k to get a monitor system


--
John I-22
(that's 'I' for Initial...)
Recognising what's NOT worth your time, THAT'S the key.
--

While I kind of agree with John (JoVee), on a personal basis I really find
it more difficult to get into ideas when I have to futz with the computer.
Much better to put on a new roll of tape and just let it go. Of course, in
my case, there's only about 25 minutes that I can work before tape runs out,
but I wrote tons of songs with a Tascam Portastudio, and have written maybe
10 since 1994 and this studio getting up and running. I'd more suggest that
you look at something along the lines of a Tascam 788. Punch record and go
about making music. It's digital, has mic pres, and all the basic functions
you could want for capturing ideas.

Just don't let equipment get in the way of making music, is what I'm really
trying to say. Once you get involved with the ability to edit, etc., you'll
be spending time tryint to polish turds, as we say, than making those songs
live in their own right.

Other than the direction we're coming from, John's correct on the equipment
he mentions. The 535 is a great all around mic, look for good monitors in
your price range, perhaps on Ebay, etc.

Keep your eye on the prize and the rest of the stuff will work itself out.

Just my humble $.02

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Christine" wrote in message
om...
Hi - I am a songwriter looking to equip a very small home studio with
sufficient equipment to record my ideas. I am not looking for
mass-distribution quality, but don't want it to sound muddy or muffled
like the results of some of the small porta-studios I've heard
(however, could have been the recording engineer who made it sound
that way). I basically would just like to have nice, clear recordings
for my own personal use.

I am planning on using my PC for recording. I am upgrading my HD
substantially(or may purchase a 120 GB external drive - haven't
decided yet)but am shooting for at least 80 GB. I am lucky enough to
have access to quite a few software packages at a discounted price -
right now, I have Adobe Audition.

My main instrument is a piano - and I am purchasing a Roland FP-5
digital piano that has a USB port onboard...so I can plug that in
directly (right?). I also play guitar...most of my songs require
acoustic, but I have an acoustic/electric guitar. I also sing.

I have a background in audio prodution - took several college-level
multi-track recording classes on analog equipment (back then, there
wasn't a lot of digital stuff out there) and was quite proficient with
the technical stuff but haven't used it in years. I think I could pick
it up again quickly.

That said, here's what I need help with:
1) Sound card - is the consumer-based Creative Labs Audigy high-end
stuff (Platinum series) sufficient for what I want to do? Or is there
another card I should look into? My budget for a sound card is around
$200 - $250.

2) Microphone - I would like a good quality vocal mic for less than
$100. Although if you give me a good one in the $100 - $200 range and
feel that it is worth the extra money for the corresponding increase
in quality, I may spring for it.

3)If the above is a condenser mic, what kind of
pre-amp/power/equipment do I need in order to record vocals digitally?
Don't forget I am new to the whole digital domain.

4)Mixer - I am used to using a mixer with buttons and knobs, and think
I may prefer having an actual mixer as opposed to a virtual one - I
think there's that extra feeling of control. Someone mentioned a
Behringer combo mic pre-amp/mixer...any thoughts? Can I get something
decent under $100? $200?

5)Monitors - something below $200.

Am I missing any major items? Please advise. I appreciate your
assistance.

"Christine" wrote in message
om...
Hi - I am a songwriter looking to equip a very small home studio with
sufficient equipment to record my ideas. I am not looking for
mass-distribution quality, but don't want it to sound muddy or muffled
like the results of some of the small porta-studios I've heard
(however, could have been the recording engineer who made it sound
that way).

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Those little things sound OK, and
it seems you are more interested in being a songwriter and saving some money
than you are in having a studio. I think you ought to give some of them
another chance.

The main thing you want to look at in terms of quality is the media the
device records to. Flash-card recorders generally compress the audio in
audible ways, but any device that uses a hard disk will sound better. If
your budget is tiny, though, the flash card recorder from fostex is usable
for 'non-production quality' audio work. It costs $300 and has eight tracks
and effects that sound fine if used modestly, for your application.

I basically would just like to have nice, clear recordings
for my own personal use.


That's more related to practice and skill than it is to equipment.

I am planning on using my PC for recording.

That can be a big can of worms.



2) Microphone - I would like a good quality vocal mic for less than
$100. Although if you give me a good one in the $100 - $200 range and
feel that it is worth the extra money for the corresponding increase
in quality, I may spring for it.


For vocals I'd suggest the MXL v67g, which may still be around for a hundred
bucks. Don't expect to use it exclusively. Pianos in particular sound much
better when mic'd in stereo.

You will also need at least one dynamic mic, especially if you are recording
in your bedroom or house. A sure 57 is the old standby, I pretty much like
the 'he' series from audio-technica right now.



3)If the above is a condenser mic, what kind of
pre-amp/power/equipment do I need in order to record vocals digitally?
Don't forget I am new to the whole digital domain.


You need phantom power.

4)Mixer - I am used to using a mixer with buttons and knobs, and think
I may prefer having an actual mixer as opposed to a virtual one - I
think there's that extra feeling of control. Someone mentioned a
Behringer combo mic pre-amp/mixer...any thoughts? Can I get something
decent under $100? $200?


No.

5)Monitors - something below $200.


Well, accurate costs. You can get something under 200 dollars and listen to
your results in as many systems as possible, then try to figure out how your
mixes should sound on your monitors to get the best results.

Get some cheapie monitors and some headphones. IMO, You will most likely be
happy IMO spending your 850 or so on a little portastudio, some monitors and
headphones, and three mics. Then spend some time getting a clear, strong
sound to the recorder and don't let yourself get frustated with the way you
sound at first.

jb

In article writes:

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Those little things
[integrated recorder/mixer] sound OK, and
it seems you are more interested in being a songwriter and saving some money
than you are in having a studio. I think you ought to give some of them
another chance.

The user interface on those things runs all the way from simple and
limited to dumbfounding and nearly unlimited. There are a few (Korg
seems to do a pretty good job of this) that are simple enough so that
I can understand them, yet are still fairly capable.

If
your budget is tiny, though, the flash card recorder from fostex is usable
for 'non-production quality' audio work. It costs $300 and has eight tracks
and effects that sound fine if used modestly, for your application.

That's one that's really simple and straightforward, and I think that
a singer/songwriter could get a lot of demo work done on one of those
Fostex things. But it would be rare that there would be any "keeper"
tracks just in case she gets a major deal.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1088458264k@trad...

In article
writes:

I think you hit the nail on the head here. Those little things
[integrated recorder/mixer] sound OK, and
it seems you are more interested in being a songwriter and saving some
money
than you are in having a studio. I think you ought to give some of them
another chance.

The user interface on those things runs all the way from simple and
limited to dumbfounding and nearly unlimited. There are a few (Korg
seems to do a pretty good job of this) that are simple enough so that
I can understand them, yet are still fairly capable.


Most are pretty menu-heavy, but the Fostex units in particular work for the
most part like a tape deck, with some editing features.

If
your budget is tiny, though, the flash card recorder from fostex is
usable
for 'non-production quality' audio work. It costs $300 and has eight
tracks
and effects that sound fine if used modestly, for your application.

That's one that's really simple and straightforward, and I think that
a singer/songwriter could get a lot of demo work done on one of those
Fostex things. But it would be rare that there would be any "keeper"
tracks just in case she gets a major deal.


I agree. I wonder if the 'portastudio' concept will grow into something more
useful in that regard. Fostex' 16-track unit already has ADAT i/o. Many of
them have 24 bit audio, and flash cards are getting bigger. The idea of a
USB port to write tracks to a notebook or pc is brilliant IMO. The only
other thing I'd think essential to the 'perfect portastudio' is a word clock
or midi port.

jb