Is this typical of Turnkey? If so, I have absolutely no idea how
they're still in business.

Last Saturday I rang them and ordered a Tascam 788. I was told it
would be posted out by courier on Monday and delivered to me on
Tuesday. In order to have it delivered to me at work on Tuesday,
rather than at home, I agreed to jump through various hoops which
involved faxing my bank statement, copies of the front and back of my
Switch card and a letter authorising them to deliver to me at my work
address, rather than at home.

On Monday morning I faxed the necessary info across and then rang and
spoke to the rep' I'd done the deal with on Saturday. He confirmed
he'd received the fax, that he had all he needed and that he'd just
been upstairs to ensure that the Tascam would be posted out to me that
day, for delivery on Tuesday. All seemed well.

On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out. He said he had no idea when the IT might be up and
running again, as every promise that had been made thus far by the IT
department had turned out to be untrue. When I told him how
frustrating that was, because if I'd known they were having problems
I'd have ordered it elsewhere in the first place, he suggested that I
contact Digital Village, whom he described as Turnkey's major
competitor, to see whether they had a 788. He even gave me DG's
website address, and he told me to ring him back if I needed to cancel
my order. I rang Digital Village, they did have a 788 (exactly the
same price) and they promised to deliver it on Wednesday. I therefore
gave my Switch details over the phone and arranged for delivery to my
home address (I no longer had the energy to jump through the faxing
hoops to arrange delivery to work).

On Wednesday, Digital Village delivered a Tascam to my home address,
in accordance with our agreement. However, at midday a second UPS
delivery man arrived - this time at my work address - with a Tascam. I
was immediately suspicious as Digital Village were supposed to be
deliveing to my home address, and so I asked who had sent it. The UPS
man said he didn't know, but I checked the invoice in the plastic bag
stuck to the box, and sure enough it was from Turnkey. I said I
couldn't accept it, and that UPS would have to take it away again. The
UPS man was annoyed, and slammed the door on his way out. Fortunately,
perhaps, this was all witnessed by a colleague.

I then rang my bank, and they confirmed that Turnkey had debited my
a/c in the sum of almost £400 on Tuesday, despite cancellation of my
order on Monday. So too had Digital Village... I rang Turnkey, and
after a couple of calls eventually spoke again to the manager from
Monday night. He immediately acknowledged the mistake, referred again
to the continuing IT chaos and promised me a refund. He was very
pleasant, but he didn't seem to understand why I might be annoyed at
what Turnkey had done. Anyway, at about 6pm that evening I had a
further phone call from him to confirm that the refund had been
actioned, although he said it could take up to 5 days for me to get my
money back.

Today - Friday - I had a phone call from a young woman who said she
was calling from UPS. She said she was ringing to check whethe a CD-RW
had been delivered to me on behalf of Digital Village - not Turnkey -
earlier in the week. I told her that a Tascam 788 had been delivered,
not a CD-RW. She said thanks, and that was that.

This evening I got home from work to find an agitated message on my
home telephone answerphone from the manager at Turnkey. He said it had
come to his attention that I've still got the Tascam that was
delivered to me earlier in the week, that it's an extremely serious
matter because he's already refunded me, and that we need to speak and
sort it out without further delay. By the time I got his message (30
minutes or so ago) Turnkey were long closed for the day, so I'll have
to try to get hold of him in the morning.

I've never come across such utter chaos on the part of a major
retailer before. After I'd ordered the Tascam I told a friend where I
was buying it, and he told me that he's had such bad experiences with
Turnkey in the past that he just doesn't use them any more. Is this
par for the course? If so, it's hard to believe they haven't folded
long before now :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

It's not really clear from the above, but after ordering from Digital
Village on Monday I did ring Turnkey straight back and cancel. I spoke
to the same manager i.e. the one who suggested contacting Digital
Village, and cancelled my order.

Aaghh.... I think I need to go and lie down :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

It's not really clear from the above, but after ordering from Digital
Village on Monday I did ring Turnkey straight back and cancel. I spoke
to the same manager i.e. the one who suggested contacting Digital
Village, and cancelled my order.

Aaghh.... I think I need to go and lie down :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

WP wrote:
On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out.

This sounds entirely plausible. One of the jobs of IT managers
and/or systems administrators is to put in place (and test!) a
disaster recovery plan. One statistic I've seen is that, of
those companies that had a business-critical computer problem
and didn't have a disaster recovery plan, 43% never even opened
their doors again, and another 29% did open their doors again,
but went out of business within 2 years. That's nearly a 75%
mortality rate!

Trouble is, the company's management -- especially if they are
not IT-savvy management -- may not even know about this disaster
waiting to happen. It takes months or even years to get everything
set up and running smoothly. If there is no plan in place and
something happens (fire, flood, lightning strike, theft, hacker,
disgruntled employee with all the important passwords, etc.), it
may take a few weeks to get everything running again. Worst part
is, if the IT guys weren't sharp enough to put in a disaster
recovery plan in the first place, they're probably not too sharp
at getting everything back quickly. So you're basically screwed
because of lack of advance planning, and there is not much management
can do but sit there and watch the train wreck happen. (What are
you going to do -- fire the only IT guys you have and bring in
people who don't know anything about what you had set up before?
If the IT guys didn't do disaster recovery planning, odds are they
didn't document anything either.)

Still, if their mission-critical systems are down and they can't
deliver, they should be up front about that at the time you place
your order. Quite possibly, though, they've already lost a lot
of revenue and it looks like they'll lose more, and they're
panicking.

- Logan

WP wrote:
On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out.

This sounds entirely plausible. One of the jobs of IT managers
and/or systems administrators is to put in place (and test!) a
disaster recovery plan. One statistic I've seen is that, of
those companies that had a business-critical computer problem
and didn't have a disaster recovery plan, 43% never even opened
their doors again, and another 29% did open their doors again,
but went out of business within 2 years. That's nearly a 75%
mortality rate!

Trouble is, the company's management -- especially if they are
not IT-savvy management -- may not even know about this disaster
waiting to happen. It takes months or even years to get everything
set up and running smoothly. If there is no plan in place and
something happens (fire, flood, lightning strike, theft, hacker,
disgruntled employee with all the important passwords, etc.), it
may take a few weeks to get everything running again. Worst part
is, if the IT guys weren't sharp enough to put in a disaster
recovery plan in the first place, they're probably not too sharp
at getting everything back quickly. So you're basically screwed
because of lack of advance planning, and there is not much management
can do but sit there and watch the train wreck happen. (What are
you going to do -- fire the only IT guys you have and bring in
people who don't know anything about what you had set up before?
If the IT guys didn't do disaster recovery planning, odds are they
didn't document anything either.)

Still, if their mission-critical systems are down and they can't
deliver, they should be up front about that at the time you place
your order. Quite possibly, though, they've already lost a lot
of revenue and it looks like they'll lose more, and they're
panicking.

- Logan

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:20:03 +0100, WP wrote
(in article ):

Is this typical of Turnkey? If so, I have absolutely no idea how
they're still in business.


Tale of woe snipped

You are not alone - just do a search for Turnkey at the Sound on Sound forum.
Then try searching for Turdkey for even more results!

John

--

yorkio65 at yahoo.co.uk

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:20:03 +0100, WP wrote
(in article ):

Is this typical of Turnkey? If so, I have absolutely no idea how
they're still in business.


Tale of woe snipped

You are not alone - just do a search for Turnkey at the Sound on Sound forum.
Then try searching for Turdkey for even more results!

John

--

yorkio65 at yahoo.co.uk

In this place, WP was recorded saying ...
[.. tale of woe with Turnkey snipped ..]

I've only dealt with Turnkey once or twice - no major disaster like
yours but never a pleasant experience either. And I've yet to figure out
how their loudly advertised "cheapest in Europe" claim works - they
always refused to price match when I have tried - enough on its own for
me to take a dislike to them - I don't like companies that fail to
honour promises.

Digital Village OTOH I have nothing but praise for. Unfailingly helpful,
great prices, honesty and prompt delivery. On one occasion, a valve mic
preamp I bought from them was delivered with a valve rattling round
inside the case. One phone call to DV had the replacement shipped and it
was on my doorstep first thing next morning - even before the original
unit had been collected.

Result? DV get nearly all my business.

--

George
Newcastle, England

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back [Piet Hein]

In this place, WP was recorded saying ...
[.. tale of woe with Turnkey snipped ..]

I've only dealt with Turnkey once or twice - no major disaster like
yours but never a pleasant experience either. And I've yet to figure out
how their loudly advertised "cheapest in Europe" claim works - they
always refused to price match when I have tried - enough on its own for
me to take a dislike to them - I don't like companies that fail to
honour promises.

Digital Village OTOH I have nothing but praise for. Unfailingly helpful,
great prices, honesty and prompt delivery. On one occasion, a valve mic
preamp I bought from them was delivered with a valve rattling round
inside the case. One phone call to DV had the replacement shipped and it
was on my doorstep first thing next morning - even before the original
unit had been collected.

Result? DV get nearly all my business.

--

George
Newcastle, England

Problems worthy of attack
Prove their worth, by hitting back [Piet Hein]

Unbelievable....

I've now spoken to another manager there, as the bloke I spoke to last
week is not working today.

The new manager checked and told me there was no record at their end
of any attempt having been made to refund me, and asked whether I'd
checked my bank account. I said I hadn't checked, as (i) I had taken
what the first manager told me about having initiated the refund at
face value, and (ii) I'd been told it might take up to 5 days to go
through, and this is only 3 days later. However, I've now rung my
bank and they tell me there's no record of any refund having been
made: it's not even in their pending file.

The new manager at Turnkey is just as pleasant and reasonable sounding
as the first one, but he's still not issued a refund as he wants to
speak to the first manager, who won't be in until Monday. So in the
space of a week:

- they fail to tell me on ordering of their IT problem, which is
apparently already at 'crisis' point;
- they fail to send out my order when promised;
- they then fail to action my cancellation;
- then they wrongly take almost £400 from me a cancelled order;
- they attempt to deliver on Wednesday the order I cancelled on
MOnday;
- they promise on Wednesday to refund me, but fail to do so;
- they ring on Friday to wrongly accuse me of having retained the item
that I refused to accept from UPS on Wednesday;
- now they're messing up my weekend too, and still won't refund me.

I hope anyone else out there who might have been thinking of ordering
from Turnkey will take my experiences on board and go elsewhere :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

Unbelievable....

I've now spoken to another manager there, as the bloke I spoke to last
week is not working today.

The new manager checked and told me there was no record at their end
of any attempt having been made to refund me, and asked whether I'd
checked my bank account. I said I hadn't checked, as (i) I had taken
what the first manager told me about having initiated the refund at
face value, and (ii) I'd been told it might take up to 5 days to go
through, and this is only 3 days later. However, I've now rung my
bank and they tell me there's no record of any refund having been
made: it's not even in their pending file.

The new manager at Turnkey is just as pleasant and reasonable sounding
as the first one, but he's still not issued a refund as he wants to
speak to the first manager, who won't be in until Monday. So in the
space of a week:

- they fail to tell me on ordering of their IT problem, which is
apparently already at 'crisis' point;
- they fail to send out my order when promised;
- they then fail to action my cancellation;
- then they wrongly take almost £400 from me a cancelled order;
- they attempt to deliver on Wednesday the order I cancelled on
MOnday;
- they promise on Wednesday to refund me, but fail to do so;
- they ring on Friday to wrongly accuse me of having retained the item
that I refused to accept from UPS on Wednesday;
- now they're messing up my weekend too, and still won't refund me.

I hope anyone else out there who might have been thinking of ordering
from Turnkey will take my experiences on board and go elsewhere :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:44:39 GMT, John Adair
wrote:

Tale of woe snipped

You are not alone - just do a search for Turnkey at the Sound on Sound forum.
Then try searching for Turdkey for even more results!

Thanks - I'll go and take a look :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 23:44:39 GMT, John Adair
wrote:

Tale of woe snipped

You are not alone - just do a search for Turnkey at the Sound on Sound forum.
Then try searching for Turdkey for even more results!

Thanks - I'll go and take a look :-(


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:56:29 GMT, Logan Shaw
wrote:

WP wrote:
On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out.

Logan said:
This sounds entirely plausible. One of the jobs of IT managers
and/or systems administrators is to put in place (and test!) a
disaster recovery plan [...]

snip

Still, if their mission-critical systems are down and they can't
deliver, they should be up front about that at the time you place
your order. Quite possibly, though, they've already lost a lot
of revenue and it looks like they'll lose more, and they're
panicking.

Depressing, but interesting! I wonder whether they'll ever get the
mess sorted out.


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:56:29 GMT, Logan Shaw
wrote:

WP wrote:
On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out.

Logan said:
This sounds entirely plausible. One of the jobs of IT managers
and/or systems administrators is to put in place (and test!) a
disaster recovery plan [...]

snip

Still, if their mission-critical systems are down and they can't
deliver, they should be up front about that at the time you place
your order. Quite possibly, though, they've already lost a lot
of revenue and it looks like they'll lose more, and they're
panicking.

Depressing, but interesting! I wonder whether they'll ever get the
mess sorted out.


--
WP
Email address munged to avoid viruses etc

WP wrote:

Unbelievable....

I've now spoken to another manager there, as the bloke I spoke to last
week is not working today.


Go straight to the top and talk to Rupert Pfaff - he's supposed to be in
charge and has always offered to sort things out when problems have been
drawn to his attention on the Sound On Sound forum. If he doesn't help
then let at least let us know the response.

Cheers.

James.

Logan Shaw wrote:
WP wrote:

On Monday evening, though, just before 5pm, I had a phone call from
Turnkey to say they'd not posted my Tascam out at all. I rang and
spoke to a manager, who told me that their entire IT system had failed
the previous week, and that as a result they were unable to post
anything out.


This sounds entirely plausible. One of the jobs of IT managers
and/or systems administrators is to put in place (and test!) a
disaster recovery plan.

One of the tasks of IT managers is to get management to *fund* said
disaster recovery plan. It's amazing how many don't consider this a
good investment:-(


One statistic I've seen is that, of
those companies that had a business-critical computer problem
and didn't have a disaster recovery plan, 43% never even opened
their doors again, and another 29% did open their doors again,
but went out of business within 2 years. That's nearly a 75%
mortality rate!


... ... snip ... ...

- Logan


--
Nick H (UK)

Spam prevention...
my real domain name is mridangam
which is a dot-com.
You can email nick there.