http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nkstothestreet

Chris Hornbeck

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=1&u=/latime
sts/20040529/ts_latimes/fromtherankstothestreet

Chris Hornbeck

A tragedy, indeed. But something doesn't smell right about this article. I
admit I didn't read the whole thing, but upon scanning most of it I noticed
that it was dated yesterday (Saturday, May, 29), but included the following:

"Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) learned about Turner's dilemma and stepped
in to help. Previously, Kennedy, the USO and Sen. John F. Kerry, another
Massachusetts Democrat, helped Turner's family"

Does it seem odd to anyone else that Kerry would be identified in this way
in a current political article? I may be barking up a tree here, but the
fact that his identity had to be explained at all, and that said explanation
didn't mention that he's the Democratic Presidential nominee (let's not get
technical about the nomination not being officical yet) just doesn't sound
legit.

NOT that I want to take issue with the general message its trying to get
across.

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=1&u=/latime
sts/20040529/ts_latimes/fromtherankstothestreet

Chris Hornbeck

A tragedy, indeed. But something doesn't smell right about this article. I
admit I didn't read the whole thing, but upon scanning most of it I noticed
that it was dated yesterday (Saturday, May, 29), but included the following:

"Sen. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) learned about Turner's dilemma and stepped
in to help. Previously, Kennedy, the USO and Sen. John F. Kerry, another
Massachusetts Democrat, helped Turner's family"

Does it seem odd to anyone else that Kerry would be identified in this way
in a current political article? I may be barking up a tree here, but the
fact that his identity had to be explained at all, and that said explanation
didn't mention that he's the Democratic Presidential nominee (let's not get
technical about the nomination not being officical yet) just doesn't sound
legit.

NOT that I want to take issue with the general message its trying to get
across.

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nkstothestreet

Chris Hornbeck

I've spoken on this a number of times here, and even wrote a song about it
in the mid-80s, called The Ballad of Wolfman, who was a well known homeless
man sleeping on grates here in DC until they found him dead of exposure, ran
a fingerprint check and found him to be a Medal of Honor winner in 'Nam. He
apparently never even attempted to try to get compensation (MOH winners
receive $1000 per month for life) or medical treatment from the Bureau of
Veteran's Affairs (now the Veteran's Administration) and just took to living
on the streets. In all of the service organization meetings I've attended
(Purple Heart, American Legion, Veterans of Foriegn Wars, and my own
organization, AMVets) there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.

With this prolonged use of Reservists and National Guard, even jobs are no
longer available that, by law, as supposed to be available to returning "on
active duty" Guardsmen and Reservists. The average enlisted man below E5 is
qualified by income to be on welfare, even including seperate rats. VA
support of returning vets has been cut by this President's last two budgets
by 2.5 Billion dollars per year causing VA hospitals to be closed all over
the US. Guardsmen also aren't entitled to the same benefits that active
military are, thereby costing the government much less money to use them
than Active Duty personnel.

I'd suggest anyone interested in learning about how badly this
administration is actually treating our troops to check into Col. David
Hackworth's website www.sftt.org for further information.

--


Roger W. Norman
Past Eastern District Commander, State of VA, AMVets.

"Chris Hornbeck" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...nkstothestreet

Chris Hornbeck

I've spoken on this a number of times here, and even wrote a song about it
in the mid-80s, called The Ballad of Wolfman, who was a well known homeless
man sleeping on grates here in DC until they found him dead of exposure, ran
a fingerprint check and found him to be a Medal of Honor winner in 'Nam. He
apparently never even attempted to try to get compensation (MOH winners
receive $1000 per month for life) or medical treatment from the Bureau of
Veteran's Affairs (now the Veteran's Administration) and just took to living
on the streets. In all of the service organization meetings I've attended
(Purple Heart, American Legion, Veterans of Foriegn Wars, and my own
organization, AMVets) there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.

With this prolonged use of Reservists and National Guard, even jobs are no
longer available that, by law, as supposed to be available to returning "on
active duty" Guardsmen and Reservists. The average enlisted man below E5 is
qualified by income to be on welfare, even including seperate rats. VA
support of returning vets has been cut by this President's last two budgets
by 2.5 Billion dollars per year causing VA hospitals to be closed all over
the US. Guardsmen also aren't entitled to the same benefits that active
military are, thereby costing the government much less money to use them
than Active Duty personnel.

I'd suggest anyone interested in learning about how badly this
administration is actually treating our troops to check into Col. David
Hackworth's website www.sftt.org for further information.

--


Roger W. Norman
Past Eastern District Commander, State of VA, AMVets.

Roger W. Norman wrote:

there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.

Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

--
ha

Roger W. Norman wrote:

there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.

Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

--
ha

hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob

Indeed.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob

Indeed.

--


Roger W. Norman
SirMusic Studio

"Bob Cain" wrote in message
...


hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

In article ,
Bob Cain wrote:

hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob


I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to
budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just too
much of this kind of crap going on.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

In article ,
Bob Cain wrote:

hank alrich wrote:

Roger W. Norman wrote:


there are tales of known veterans living the in the
vast wilds of Oregon, Washington State and Alaska, just to prevent
themselves from having to come into much if any contact with "normal"
humans.


Got 'em hereabouts, in the canyons of the rivers. The ones who can deal
go to town every now and then to get supplies for the rest of the
"campers". Otherwise these guys stay invisible to the public at large,
and even the ones who hitchhike for supplies don't tell their ride where
and why they're "camping".

I just hate it when I start to thinking that maybe this
country deserves the destruction it's administration seems
hell bent on bringing it.

That kind of thinking got me in more than a bit of trouble
in the '60s and it really annoys me when it starts kicking
up again. Heavy sigh.


Bob


I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to
budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just too
much of this kind of crap going on.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she is
instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but to
think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to be
done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that every
poiltician is dishonest at best.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she is
instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but to
think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to be
done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that every
poiltician is dishonest at best.




John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due
to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she
is
instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but to
think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to be
done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that every
poiltician is dishonest at best.


Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills and
self-control. Before Reagan emptied the institutions in California, this kind
of thing was much less common. There are inadequate safety nets provided and
the rest of us just have to deal with the fallout.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due
to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she
is
instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but to
think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to be
done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that every
poiltician is dishonest at best.


Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills and
self-control. Before Reagan emptied the institutions in California, this kind
of thing was much less common. There are inadequate safety nets provided and
the rest of us just have to deal with the fallout.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.
I wish her good fortune.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.
I wish her good fortune.


John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Blind Joni wrote:


If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.


That's very true. I too have often felt that if people were a bit more like me
things would be better. Many disagree.

Blind Joni wrote:


If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.


That's very true. I too have often felt that if people were a bit more like me
things would be better. Many disagree.

If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.


That's very true. I too have often felt that if people were a bit more like
me
things would be better. Many disagree

I'm not saying anyone has to be like anyone else...just that in my
understanding one of the functions of local churches is to help people in need.
Mine does. Battered women..unwed mothers with no families..etc. Just one part
of a big puzzle that can use all the help it can get.






John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.


That's very true. I too have often felt that if people were a bit more like
me
things would be better. Many disagree

I'm not saying anyone has to be like anyone else...just that in my
understanding one of the functions of local churches is to help people in need.
Mine does. Battered women..unwed mothers with no families..etc. Just one part
of a big puzzle that can use all the help it can get.






John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.
I wish her good fortune.


Jihn you should wait till your sober before writing . this is utter and
complete crap

maybe if she was leper on some isolated island near hawaii a church
would step in(The nun I worked on this leper project with is up for
sainthood!!!) but not a neighboorhood church, ask my cousin what
happened when she went to the church when her husband beat her.
They sent her back to him to live as she had promised to God , till
death do you part

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.
I wish her good fortune.


Jihn you should wait till your sober before writing . this is utter and
complete crap

maybe if she was leper on some isolated island near hawaii a church
would step in(The nun I worked on this leper project with is up for
sainthood!!!) but not a neighboorhood church, ask my cousin what
happened when she went to the church when her husband beat her.
They sent her back to him to live as she had promised to God , till
death do you part

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.

Does your church help the homeless without proselytizing them? Does it provide
job training and placement? Does it find low-cost housing? Does it provide all
the services a decent society should expecting nothing in return?

We helped her for the time being without any divine intervention. But that's
not how society should be functioning, catch-as-catch-can. Church is not the
answer to every problem.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:

Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on
the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills
and
self-control.

OK..I'm gonna make a crazy statement here.....not to enflame but to offer
another point of view. Maybe not a total solution but a viable point
nonetheless.
If this women were a member of a church she would have some sort of support
system. I always wonder why so many don't recognize this.

Does your church help the homeless without proselytizing them? Does it provide
job training and placement? Does it find low-cost housing? Does it provide all
the services a decent society should expecting nothing in return?

We helped her for the time being without any divine intervention. But that's
not how society should be functioning, catch-as-catch-can. Church is not the
answer to every problem.

-Jay
--
x------- Jay Kadis ------- x---- Jay's Attic Studio ------x
x Lecturer, Audio Engineer x Dexter Records x
x CCRMA, Stanford University x http://www.offbeats.com/ x
x-------- http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/~jay/ ----------x

Blind Joni wrote:

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.


Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she is
instantly homeless..then assaulted.

I was layed off from a research position in 1994 and while
it wasn't instant, within four months I was living in my car
and then on the street when a pretext was found for
divesting me of the car. The assults followed rather
quickly. Until it happens you have no idea what it feels
like to have no power *at all* and be looking at a state
that seems designed to make that situation permenant once it
has happened.

What got me out of it was not bootstrapping. I simply could
find no way to make that happen from a filthy, hungry state
with no communications and no address. The accompanying
disorientation is disabling in and of itself. Had I not
suddenly inherited what it took, I honestly believe I would
have died there.

I thought, as do most, that I was stronger than what I
proved to be in the face of that kind of mind numbing
change. We all have our pink glasses until they are stepped
on. It's been a fairly long time since that dark night of
the soul but I still find myself scanning my environment
wherever I go for safe and dry places to sleep should the
time come again, and that recurs in my dreams regularly.

I really think more of us need that experience before things
will change. It is just not comprehensible otherwise and
the people that are suffering it remain largely invisible to
those to whom it hasn't (as they had been to me.)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Blind Joni wrote:

I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due to

budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's just
too
much of this kind of crap going on.


Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she is
instantly homeless..then assaulted.

I was layed off from a research position in 1994 and while
it wasn't instant, within four months I was living in my car
and then on the street when a pretext was found for
divesting me of the car. The assults followed rather
quickly. Until it happens you have no idea what it feels
like to have no power *at all* and be looking at a state
that seems designed to make that situation permenant once it
has happened.

What got me out of it was not bootstrapping. I simply could
find no way to make that happen from a filthy, hungry state
with no communications and no address. The accompanying
disorientation is disabling in and of itself. Had I not
suddenly inherited what it took, I honestly believe I would
have died there.

I thought, as do most, that I was stronger than what I
proved to be in the face of that kind of mind numbing
change. We all have our pink glasses until they are stepped
on. It's been a fairly long time since that dark night of
the soul but I still find myself scanning my environment
wherever I go for safe and dry places to sleep should the
time come again, and that recurs in my dreams regularly.

I really think more of us need that experience before things
will change. It is just not comprehensible otherwise and
the people that are suffering it remain largely invisible to
those to whom it hasn't (as they had been to me.)


Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Jay Kadis wrote:
In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:


I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due
to budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's
just too much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she
is instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but
to think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to
be done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that
every politician is dishonest at best.


Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills and
self-control. Before Reagan emptied the institutions in California, this kind
of thing was much less common. There are inadequate safety nets provided and
the rest of us just have to deal with the fallout.

Which, according to some recent studies, is costing more than the institutions did.

Jay Kadis wrote:
In article ,
(Blind Joni) wrote:


I'm in the same boat. We played a little gig Sunday at which a now-homeless
woman was assaulted somewhere in the vicinity and came in for help. She was
recently laid off from the college where she worked as a groundskeeper due
to budget cuts and now has nowhere to live and no support system. There's
just too much of this kind of crap going on.

Hold on a minute....can you elaborate a little. A women gets laid off....she
is instantly homeless..then assaulted. I agree this sounds like a tragedy but
to think this is commonplace is a little hysterical. And what exactly is to
be done? What was the rest of the story? For the record ..I believe that
every politician is dishonest at best.


Well, it's commonplace enough. The rest of the story... she's probably an
alcoholic on the fringe of society. So does that entitle her to a life on the
street? Life can be very hard for those people with marginal social skills and
self-control. Before Reagan emptied the institutions in California, this kind
of thing was much less common. There are inadequate safety nets provided and
the rest of us just have to deal with the fallout.

Which, according to some recent studies, is costing more than the institutions did.

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:52:18 GMT, wrote:

HEy it's the "kinder gentler America" folks. Hrrumph

Greg Brown has a song called "I Want My Country Back."

Chris Hornbeck

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 00:52:18 GMT, wrote:

HEy it's the "kinder gentler America" folks. Hrrumph

Greg Brown has a song called "I Want My Country Back."

Chris Hornbeck

Most people in this country need to learn "there but by the grace of
insert your favorite deity go I"

Bob Cain wrote:


I was layed off from a research position in 1994 and while
it wasn't instant, within four months I was living in my car
and then on the street when a pretext was found for
divesting me of the car. The assults followed rather
quickly. Until it happens you have no idea what it feels
like to have no power *at all* and be looking at a state
that seems designed to make that situation permenant once it
has happened.

What got me out of it was not bootstrapping. I simply could
find no way to make that happen from a filthy, hungry state
with no communications and no address. The accompanying
disorientation is disabling in and of itself. Had I not
suddenly inherited what it took, I honestly believe I would
have died there.

I thought, as do most, that I was stronger than what I
proved to be in the face of that kind of mind numbing
change. We all have our pink glasses until they are stepped
on. It's been a fairly long time since that dark night of
the soul but I still find myself scanning my environment
wherever I go for safe and dry places to sleep should the
time come again, and that recurs in my dreams regularly.

I really think more of us need that experience before things
will change. It is just not comprehensible otherwise and
the people that are suffering it remain largely invisible to
those to whom it hasn't (as they had been to me.)

Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Most people in this country need to learn "there but by the grace of
insert your favorite deity go I"

Bob Cain wrote:


I was layed off from a research position in 1994 and while
it wasn't instant, within four months I was living in my car
and then on the street when a pretext was found for
divesting me of the car. The assults followed rather
quickly. Until it happens you have no idea what it feels
like to have no power *at all* and be looking at a state
that seems designed to make that situation permenant once it
has happened.

What got me out of it was not bootstrapping. I simply could
find no way to make that happen from a filthy, hungry state
with no communications and no address. The accompanying
disorientation is disabling in and of itself. Had I not
suddenly inherited what it took, I honestly believe I would
have died there.

I thought, as do most, that I was stronger than what I
proved to be in the face of that kind of mind numbing
change. We all have our pink glasses until they are stepped
on. It's been a fairly long time since that dark night of
the soul but I still find myself scanning my environment
wherever I go for safe and dry places to sleep should the
time come again, and that recurs in my dreams regularly.

I really think more of us need that experience before things
will change. It is just not comprehensible otherwise and
the people that are suffering it remain largely invisible to
those to whom it hasn't (as they had been to me.)

Bob
--

"Things should be described as simply as possible, but no
simpler."

A. Einstein

Most people in this country need to learn "there but by the grace of
insert your favorite deity go I"


If they all believed in God's grace they would probably also know that other's
who believe this would be supportive when needed.
The saying is not just a helpless quote but also an empowering one...if allowed
to be.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Most people in this country need to learn "there but by the grace of
insert your favorite deity go I"


If they all believed in God's grace they would probably also know that other's
who believe this would be supportive when needed.
The saying is not just a helpless quote but also an empowering one...if allowed
to be.

John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Jihn you should wait till your sober before writing . this is utter and
complete crap

maybe if she was leper on some isolated island near hawaii a church
would step in(The nun I worked on this leper project with is up for
sainthood!!!) but not a neighboorhood church, ask my cousin what
happened when she went to the church when her husband beat her.
They sent her back to him to live as she had promised to God , till
death do you part

I knew I could dount on you to take a possible event and make a generalization
based on a personal sample of 1.
I know of churches who would step in so my possibility stands.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Jihn you should wait till your sober before writing . this is utter and
complete crap

maybe if she was leper on some isolated island near hawaii a church
would step in(The nun I worked on this leper project with is up for
sainthood!!!) but not a neighboorhood church, ask my cousin what
happened when she went to the church when her husband beat her.
They sent her back to him to live as she had promised to God , till
death do you part

I knew I could dount on you to take a possible event and make a generalization
based on a personal sample of 1.
I know of churches who would step in so my possibility stands.
John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637

Does your church help the homeless without proselytizing them?
I know it runs an unwed mother center..and I'm sure there are religious based
concepts brought up. I don't see many Gov't programs without a catch for
someone either.

Does it
provide
job training and placement?

No

Does it find low-cost housing?
Yes.

Does it provide
all
the services a decent society should expecting nothing in return?

First we have to define "services"...I don't know exactly what that would be.

We helped her for the time being without any divine intervention. But that's

not how society should be functioning, catch-as-catch-can. Church is not the

answer to every problem.

Never said it was...just that for some it is a perfectly valid helping hand.the
same as AA is valid for those that it works for...if they choose to take it. I
personally would not tell anyone to turn down a church's help if they needed it
and noone else was stepping in.





John A. Chiara
SOS Recording Studio
Live Sound Inc.
Albany, NY
www.sosrecording.net
518-449-1637