It's been suggested that I look into a soundcard with better
performance than my Soundblaster Live to see if it might solve a
distortion problem with recording trumpet.

Someone suggested a Delta card. Delta 44's seem readily available on
eBay. However, 4 in/out is 2 more than I envision myself having a need
for in the foreseeable future. Is there a card out there with 2 in/out
that performs similarly to the Delta?

Doc wrote:
It's been suggested that I look into a soundcard with better
performance than my Soundblaster Live to see if it might solve a
distortion problem with recording trumpet.

Someone suggested a Delta card. Delta 44's seem readily available on
eBay. However, 4 in/out is 2 more than I envision myself having a need
for in the foreseeable future. Is there a card out there with 2 in/out
that performs similarly to the Delta?

The Audiophile 2496 is very similar to a 2-channel version of a Delta 66,
except that it does not handle standard audio production levels. Instead, it
works at the lower voltage levels usally associated with consumer audio
gear. While the Delta 44 and Delta 66 are sometimes advertised as having
balanced wiring, they don't have the active electronics to back them up.

Looking at recent closed auctions, I'm surprised by how high Delta 44 prices
are. For about the same money you can get the 2-channel Echo Mia which has
digital I/O.

Doc wrote:
It's been suggested that I look into a soundcard with better
performance than my Soundblaster Live to see if it might solve a
distortion problem with recording trumpet.

Someone suggested a Delta card. Delta 44's seem readily available on
eBay. However, 4 in/out is 2 more than I envision myself having a need
for in the foreseeable future. Is there a card out there with 2 in/out
that performs similarly to the Delta?

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and excellent
support from M-audio. If you need more input in the future, you can just add
another one.

--
www.odysea.ca

Deco_time wrote:

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and excellent
support from M-audio. If you need more input in the future, you can just add
another one.

I have their DIO2448 that is pretty worthless. When I connect the SPDIF
I/O from my Otari DAT recorder and set the polarity, everthing is fine.
However, when I switch the Otari to record monitor mode, the polarity
reverses and a horrible, ear-splitting, speaker-damaging signal jumps
out of my monitors. According to M-Audio, the problem is that the card
"doesn't have a very good clock sync" circuit. My other SPDIF card has
no problem with this deck.

In article writes:

The Audiophile 2496 is very similar to a 2-channel version of a Delta 66,
except that it does not handle standard audio production levels. Instead, it
works at the lower voltage levels usally associated with consumer audio
gear.

This is often an advantage when dealing with home/tabletop studios. It
reduces the number of "why are my recordings so quiet?" inquiries.
Much of today's "professonal" equipment can't put out enough level to
get a clean full scale recorded peak from a sound card with a nominal
+4 dBu analog input.

Being able to adjust the recording level is important. If you can
never get enough level out of the source to reach the peak record
level, your recordings will be safe but you'll worry that they're too
quiet. But with a higher sensitivity input (-10 dBV of "consumer
level") as long as you can turn DOWN the output level of the source,
you can almost always find the proper recording level. If you have to
turn down a digital level control after A/D conversion you could get
in to trouble.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

Mike Rivers wrote:
In article
writes:

The Audiophile 2496 is very similar to a 2-channel version of a
Delta 66, except that it does not handle standard audio production
levels. Instead, it works at the lower voltage levels usually
associated with consumer audio gear.

This is often an advantage when dealing with home/tabletop studios. It
reduces the number of "why are my recordings so quiet?" inquiries.
Much of today's "professional" equipment can't put out enough level to
get a clean full scale recorded peak from a sound card with a nominal
+4 dBu analog input.

The hidden agenda is that virtually all audio production cards can be
jumpered, switched, or soft-set for -10 dB operation, which is approximately
11 dB more gain than +4. This nets out to be about 2 volts for full-scale
which works well enough for most consumer applications. Most consumer only
cards are designed for 1 volt FS or 2 volts FS. Using a pro card, you might
end up with a signal that still peaks almost 20 dB below FS, but even the
cheapest pro cards have about 100 dB dynamic range. So even with the excess
gain, noise is still almost 80 dB down. In the real world the source
probably has 50-70 dB SNR so the pro card is not the weakest link, despite
the level mismatch.

Being able to adjust the recording level is important. If you can
never get enough level out of the source to reach the peak record
level, your recordings will be safe but you'll worry that they're too
quiet.

Well, that's why we have audio editors. Even the cheapest one out there
Audacity (freeware!) has the a ability to digitally amplify signals. One is
always better off with a signal that is 6 db under than 6 dB over. ;-)

But with a higher sensitivity input (-10 dBV of "consumer
level") as long as you can turn DOWN the output level of the source,
you can almost always find the proper recording level. If you have to
turn down a digital level control after A/D conversion you could get
in to trouble.

Agreed. I think we've fielded some posts from people who ran into this
problem, just lately. I've run into people who have had input clipping
issues with AP2496s though they could be managed with a little cleverness.

mcp6453 wrote:
Deco_time wrote:

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and
excellent support from M-audio. If you need more input in the
future, you can just add another one.

I have their DIO2448 that is pretty worthless. When I connect the
SPDIF I/O from my Otari DAT recorder and set the polarity, everything
is fine. However, when I switch the Otari to record monitor mode, the
polarity reverses and a horrible, ear-splitting, speaker-damaging
signal jumps out of my monitors. According to M-Audio, the problem is
that the card "doesn't have a very good clock sync" circuit. My other
SPDIF card has no problem with this deck.

This is well-known problem with the DIO2448. It was based on a CMedia chip
that was sometimes a little flaky in the synch department. CMedia has
updated their technology since then. Some of the really modern el-cheapo
consumer sound chips are pretty impressive. Plug a signal lead in, either
analog or digital, input or output, and the card will identify and
auto-configure for it on the fly.

The Echo and M-Audio Delta series cards are a whole 'nuther thing. IME they
synch well under just about any reasonable condition.

Arny Krueger wrote:

mcp6453 wrote:
Deco_time wrote:

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and
excellent support from M-audio. If you need more input in the
future, you can just add another one.

I have their DIO2448 that is pretty worthless. When I connect the
SPDIF I/O from my Otari DAT recorder and set the polarity, everything
is fine. However, when I switch the Otari to record monitor mode, the
polarity reverses and a horrible, ear-splitting, speaker-damaging
signal jumps out of my monitors. According to M-Audio, the problem is
that the card "doesn't have a very good clock sync" circuit. My other
SPDIF card has no problem with this deck.

This is well-known problem with the DIO2448. It was based on a CMedia chip
that was sometimes a little flaky in the synch department. CMedia has
updated their technology since then. Some of the really modern el-cheapo
consumer sound chips are pretty impressive. Plug a signal lead in, either
analog or digital, input or output, and the card will identify and
auto-configure for it on the fly.

The Echo and M-Audio Delta series cards are a whole 'nuther thing. IME they
synch well under just about any reasonable condition.


I'd love to get rid of this card, if anyone wants it. Make me an offer.
It works great for a single source that does not invert its output
polarity when it switches modes.

As a second thought, is there a S/PDIF to S/PDIF converter that converts
to the absolute value of a signal?

mcp6453 wrote:
Arny Krueger wrote:

mcp6453 wrote:
Deco_time wrote:

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and
excellent support from M-audio. If you need more input in the
future, you can just add another one.

I have their DIO2448 that is pretty worthless. When I connect the
SPDIF I/O from my Otari DAT recorder and set the polarity,
everything is fine. However, when I switch the Otari to record
monitor mode, the polarity reverses and a horrible, ear-splitting,
speaker-damaging signal jumps out of my monitors. According to
M-Audio, the problem is that the card "doesn't have a very good
clock sync" circuit. My other SPDIF card has no problem with this
deck.

This is well-known problem with the DIO2448. It was based on a
CMedia chip that was sometimes a little flaky in the synch
department. CMedia has updated their technology since then. Some of
the really modern el-cheapo consumer sound chips are pretty
impressive. Plug a signal lead in, either analog or digital, input
or output, and the card will identify and auto-configure for it on
the fly.

The Echo and M-Audio Delta series cards are a whole 'nuther thing.
IME they synch well under just about any reasonable condition.


I'd love to get rid of this card, if anyone wants it. Make me an
offer. It works great for a single source that does not invert its
output polarity when it switches modes.

As a second thought, is there a S/PDIF to S/PDIF converter that
converts to the absolute value of a signal?

Back-to-back optica/coax converters could work.

http://mcm.newark.com/NewarkWebComme...t=optical+coax

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message ...

The Audiophile 2496 is very similar to a 2-channel version of a Delta 66,
except that it does not handle standard audio production levels. Instead, it
works at the lower voltage levels usally associated with consumer audio
gear. While the Delta 44 and Delta 66 are sometimes advertised as having
balanced wiring, they don't have the active electronics to back them up.

Looking at recent closed auctions, I'm surprised by how high Delta 44 prices
are. For about the same money you can get the 2-channel Echo Mia which has
digital I/O.

So, do you feel that if in fact the culprit is my soundcard, any of
these should handle the signal without causing odd artifacts, and
conversely, if the problem doesn't go away, it's a safe bet the
problem is elsewhere?

Doc wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

The Audiophile 2496 is very similar to a 2-channel version of a
Delta 66, except that it does not handle standard audio production
levels. Instead, it works at the lower voltage levels usally
associated with consumer audio gear. While the Delta 44 and Delta 66
are sometimes advertised as having balanced wiring, they don't have
the active electronics to back them up.

Looking at recent closed auctions, I'm surprised by how high Delta
44 prices are. For about the same money you can get the 2-channel
Echo Mia which has digital I/O.

So, do you feel that if in fact the culprit is my soundcard, any of
these should handle the signal without causing odd artifacts, and
conversely, if the problem doesn't go away, it's a safe bet the
problem is elsewhere?

If this is the trumpet recording we were talking about earlier, I will stick
by my analysis that there is no fault in your sound card that is causing the
problem you perceive.

I could be wrong, given the slings and arrows of remote diagnosis. If you
ever get a resolution of this problem it would be interesting to hear what
the *corrected* recording sounds like looped through the older sound card.

"Arny Krueger" writes:

mcp6453 wrote:
Deco_time wrote:

Audiophile 24/96, $149.00 brand new with lifetime warranty and
excellent support from M-audio. If you need more input in the
future, you can just add another one.

I have their DIO2448 that is pretty worthless. When I connect the
SPDIF I/O from my Otari DAT recorder and set the polarity, everything
is fine. However, when I switch the Otari to record monitor mode, the
polarity reverses and a horrible, ear-splitting, speaker-damaging
signal jumps out of my monitors. According to M-Audio, the problem is
that the card "doesn't have a very good clock sync" circuit. My other
SPDIF card has no problem with this deck.

This is well-known problem with the DIO2448. It was based on a CMedia chip
that was sometimes a little flaky in the synch department. CMedia has
updated their technology since then. Some of the really modern el-cheapo
consumer sound chips are pretty impressive. Plug a signal lead in, either
analog or digital, input or output, and the card will identify and
auto-configure for it on the fly.

The Echo and M-Audio Delta series cards are a whole 'nuther thing. IME they
synch well under just about any reasonable condition.

Dear Arny,

Are DIO2448 able to sync to MD or other optical input on 44.1 and 48.0
(without resampling)? I'm not trying to do anything fancy, just record
(digital) and playback (analog only). Well maybe some analog capture too.

I'm not trying to do anything complicated like real time monitoring, etc, but
I would like to get reasonable performance for a cheap price. Well, I just
bought one for $50CAD (on ebay), so I hope it works!

I have been using USB audio (like the Soundblaster USB MP3+ described in
another thread), but I have had a few stability problems with USB. I am
running Linux (Debian, testing) and occasionally USB gets messed up (losing
packets?). It is not quite there yet IMO. Maybe soon, but not yet.

Richard

In article writes:

The hidden agenda is that virtually all audio production cards can be
jumpered, switched, or soft-set for -10 dB operation

The hidden agenda, or the hidden switch? g

Using a pro card, you might
end up with a signal that still peaks almost 20 dB below FS, but even the
cheapest pro cards have about 100 dB dynamic range. So even with the excess
gain, noise is still almost 80 dB down.

If you use the card connected to the playback system, this works out
OK since it's basically a unity gain device. The problem comes when
you take the card out of the playback system.

When you burn a CD where the peak level is -20 dBFS and play it in a
real CD player, "mastering" considerations aside, it will be
substantially lower volume than if it peaked at 0 dBFS. Of course you
could always normalize it, but we keep telling people that this is a
dirty word.

Being able to adjust the recording level is important. If you can
never get enough level out of the source to reach the peak record
level, your recordings will be safe but you'll worry that they're too
quiet.

Well, that's why we have audio editors. Even the cheapest one out there
Audacity (freeware!) has the a ability to digitally amplify signals. One is
always better off with a signal that is 6 db under than 6 dB over. ;-)

Sure, but it's amplifying the noise along with it. And considering
that there probably wasn't a lot of system engineering going into
putting the system together, there's a chance that the source is a
kind of noisy mixer or mic preamp, and a kind of noisy mic. It's
better to get your gain up front where you know how much signal and
how much noise you're getting.


--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...

If this is the trumpet recording we were talking about earlier, I will
stick
by my analysis that there is no fault in your sound card that is causing
the
problem you perceive.

I could be wrong, given the slings and arrows of remote diagnosis. If you
ever get a resolution of this problem it would be interesting to hear what
the *corrected* recording sounds like looped through the older sound
card.

I just ordered a new Shure Beta 58a off eBay. I *know* they can handle
trumpet. That's what the former Disney group the Hollywood Hitmen blew
into. That was a mighty loud bunch of players. Will see what happens with
that.