[jay-n-123]

When using either MME or ASIO drivers, phase inversion happened as the
result recording "What you hear" using a Creative Audigy 4. Same thing
happend recording "Stereo Mix" when using the onboard Realtek Card.

I then discovered that phase inversion happens even if I simply take a
stereo cable and patch it from the Front speaker output of Realtek to the
Line In of the Realtek, and then I select "Realtek Speakers" as audio output
driver and select "Realtek Line In" as the audio input driver. The recorded
signal is phase inverted.

Same is true if I take a stereo cable and route the headphone output of the
Audigy 4 to "Line in 2" of the audigy 4 and then choose "Audigy 4 Speakers"
as the output "Audigy 4 Line in 2" as the audio input. The recorded signal
is phase inverted.

Keep in mind that this phase inversion of the recorded signal does NOT
happen with the identical software under XP.

So it appears that Vista is either phase inverting the output or phase
inverting the input. Anyone else getting the same results?

Thanks,

J

[Geoff]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
When using either MME or ASIO drivers, phase inversion happened as the
result recording "What you hear" using a Creative Audigy 4. Same
thing happend recording "Stereo Mix" when using the onboard Realtek
Card.
I then discovered that phase inversion happens even if I simply take a
stereo cable and patch it from the Front speaker output of Realtek to
the Line In of the Realtek, and then I select "Realtek Speakers" as
audio output driver and select "Realtek Line In" as the audio input
driver. The recorded signal is phase inverted.

Same is true if I take a stereo cable and route the headphone output
of the Audigy 4 to "Line in 2" of the audigy 4 and then choose
"Audigy 4 Speakers" as the output "Audigy 4 Line in 2" as the audio
input. The recorded signal is phase inverted.

Keep in mind that this phase inversion of the recorded signal does NOT
happen with the identical software under XP.

So it appears that Vista is either phase inverting the output or phase
inverting the input. Anyone else getting the same results?


Or your sound devices' Vista drivers are.

geoff

[jay-n-123]

Or your sound devices' Vista drivers are.

Or everyone's sound devices are....thanks to the operating system.

J.

[jay-n-123]

The inversion appears to happen to the output. I routed a mixer to two
computers and both the Vista and XP machine recorded the signal in the same
phase. So, Vista is inverting the phase of the audio output since recording
the Vista output results in a phase inverted signal.

J.

[Romeo Rondeau[_2_]]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
Or your sound devices' Vista drivers are.

Or everyone's sound devices are....thanks to the operating system.

J.



Doesn't happen on my rig and I'm using Windows XP. I have two sound
devices, an RME Hammerfall and a Digidesign Mbox2Mini. Don't blame the
problem on the operating system, you've got a local problem there.

[jay-n-123]

I NEVER SAID IT HAPPENS UNDER XP!

It happens under ******VISTA******, and YES, UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE I AM
BLAMING VISTA!

I am perfectly aware that it does NOT happen under XP, thank you very much!

J.

doesn't happen on my rig and I'm using Windows XP. I have two sound
devices, an RME Hammerfall and a Digidesign Mbox2Mini. Don't blame the
problem on the operating system, you've got a local problem there.

[Romeo Rondeau[_2_]]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
I NEVER SAID IT HAPPENS UNDER XP!

It happens under ******VISTA******, and YES, UNTIL PROVEN OTHERWISE I AM
BLAMING VISTA!

I am perfectly aware that it does NOT happen under XP, thank you very much!

J.

OK, blame away :-)

[Geoff]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
Or your sound devices' Vista drivers are.

Or everyone's sound devices are....thanks to the operating system.

Well isn't that what you need to determine ?

Realtek and SB are really not great places to start. Try a serious
soundcard from a reputable manufacturerer, and see if anything is inverted
there.

geoff

[jay-n-123]

In my testing I've found it's the output that gets inverted under Vista.
(and yes I'm aware that XP does not have the same problem).

J.

[Romeo Rondeau[_2_]]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
In my testing I've found it's the output that gets inverted under Vista.
(and yes I'm aware that XP does not have the same problem).

J.



Explain what you did to test this.

[jay-n-123]

I explain it in my original post....did I not?

J.

Explain what you did to test this.

[Romeo Rondeau[_2_]]

Jay-n-123 wrote:
I explain it in my original post....did I not?

J.

Explain what you did to test this.



Not completely. If you want to just bitch, then just say so, otherwise
explain everything in detail and we may be able to help you.

[jay-n-123]

In my original message, I explained everything in sufficient detail.

Not completely. If you want to just bitch, then just say so, otherwise
explain everything in detail and we may be able to help you.

[Mike Rivers]

On May 28, 2:40 pm, "Jay-n-123" wrote:

I explain it in my original post....did I not?

Not entirely clearly. First off, it's POLARITY inversion that you're
talking about, I believe, not a phase shift. There's a difference, and
I've very picky about this, but I'll let it pass.

Not being a SoundBlaster user, I'm not sure what "what you hear"
means. What I suspect you're observing is that when you record
something from an analog input, the analog playback is inverted in
polarity. Is that what's happening?

It can get a little confusing when you're using the equipment you're
trying to test as the test equipment. The way I investigate problems
like this is to use an easily identifiable waveform as a test signal -
I have an AC wall wart connected to an XLR plug through a diode to
give me a half-wave rectified test signal. I know that the peaks are
up, and if they come out up, then there's no inversion. I look at the
output with an oscilloscope.

If you don't have an oscilloscope lying around, you can use another
computer with a sound card. Record the input and record the ouptut. If
they look the same then there's no polarity inversion. If they're
opposite, then something is inverted. Your method of determining
whether the inversion is with recording or playback seems to make
sense.

If there's really a problem, I suspect that it's with the Vista
driver. It took a while for sound card problems to get sorted out with
XP as I recall. They never think to test those things when developing
a new operating system.

[Laurence Payne]

On 28 May 2007 13:37:44 -0700, Mike Rivers
wrote:

Not being a SoundBlaster user, I'm not sure what "what you hear"
means. What I suspect you're observing is that when you record
something from an analog input, the analog playback is inverted in
polarity. Is that what's happening?

It's the Record Input you choose when you want to track...well...what
you're hearing. Remember the Soundblaster cards have onboard MIDI
synths. If you've built up a sequence using a mixture of audio tracks
and MIDI tracks, it's a very useful tool when mixing down. Also
allows convenient recording of streaming audio off the 'net.

[jay-n-123]

Not being a SoundBlaster user, I'm not sure what "what you hear"
means. What I suspect you're observing is that when you record
something from an analog input, the analog playback is inverted in
polarity. Is that what's happening?

Yes that's correct, and it also happens if I set it so that the input to
records the output using a stereo cable. The recorded waveform is a mirror
image of the original.

J.