Help.

I need advice with a planned upgrade. Anyone that has experience with
these components, especially if they were used together, please let me
know what you think. All thoughts or advice greatly appreciated!!

Listening Room:
15' x 21' with sloping ceiling from 9' to 15', speakers on the 9' side,
three large openings to other rooms, carpet, minimal furniture. Two of
the large opening on the back wall.

Current System:
NAD 314 integrated amp
Parasound C/DP 1000 CD player
Klipsch Cornwall I speakers
Velodyne DLS 4000 subwoofer

Current Impression:
Lacks dynamics. Light mid bass response on most recordings, seems to
lack punch. Music that is very busy sounds somewhat muddy. You must
concentrate to see the sound stage. Upper end can have slight edge, but
not bad overall.

Planned Purchases:

I was thinking of dumping the NAD and purchasing a Bryston 3B or 4B NRB
or ST amp. The preamp that I had in mind was the Audio Research LS3 or
LP9MKII. How would these components play together? Which pre would
better suit the Bryston? How would the whole thing match the Klipsch?
Am I on the right track? What about the room, do I need another subwoofer?

Thanks for all reply's !!

I like the LS3 + 3B-ST combination. If you still have what you
describe as muddy bass, you might look at some other subs. Tannoy
makes a very reasonably priced sub that is plenty large and would
easily fix that. It adds huge dynamic capability and low distortion
bottom end. You might also consider a new Bryston B60 and take
advantage of the full warranty. You really don't need a lot of power
and the B60 will give you plenty of bass and has extremely low noise.
They also have a new DAC option, which can be included in the B60
making it a B60DA. I have one of these in my BP25 preamp (BP25DA) and
it is a wonderful sounding unit that gives an upgrade to a couple of
digital sources with the flip of a switch. That lets you also upgrade
the output of another digital signal, not just the CD but also
Satellite Radio or whatever. You might find that to be killing two
birds with one stone and have the piece of mind of owning new
equipment as well. My wife and I enjoy ours and find it to be very
dynamic and clear.
- Bill
www.uptownaudio.com
Roanoke VA
(540) 343-1250

"Elwood" wrote in message
news:7ARDb.68163$8y1.263977@attbi_s52...
Help.

I need advice with a planned upgrade. Anyone that has experience
with
these components, especially if they were used together, please let
me
know what you think. All thoughts or advice greatly appreciated!!

Listening Room:
15' x 21' with sloping ceiling from 9' to 15', speakers on the 9'
side,
three large openings to other rooms, carpet, minimal furniture. Two
of
the large opening on the back wall.

Current System:
NAD 314 integrated amp
Parasound C/DP 1000 CD player
Klipsch Cornwall I speakers
Velodyne DLS 4000 subwoofer

Current Impression:
Lacks dynamics. Light mid bass response on most recordings, seems
to
lack punch. Music that is very busy sounds somewhat muddy. You
must
concentrate to see the sound stage. Upper end can have slight edge,
but
not bad overall.

Planned Purchases:

I was thinking of dumping the NAD and purchasing a Bryston 3B or 4B
NRB
or ST amp. The preamp that I had in mind was the Audio Research LS3
or
LP9MKII. How would these components play together? Which pre would
better suit the Bryston? How would the whole thing match the
Klipsch?
Am I on the right track? What about the room, do I need another
subwoofer?

Thanks for all reply's !!

I listened to it for around 15 minutes, and I found the sound quite good.
Anyone in the group have inputs to the components individually, or in
combination?
snip
I'm trying to keep my spending below $3,000, tho...

what are your placement constraints? (ie, do you have to satisfy a spouse
or other room constraints) how big is you room? what are your musical
tastes?

since you are mentioning bookshelves (which are not in general extended
beyond 50 hz), i would encourage you to try something of a different
flavor than perhaps what other will recommend: this assumes you have some
freedom in placing them at least 2.5 feet away from the rear wall to let
them breath

Magnepan speakers...you can get the MMGs for only 550 directly from
Magnepan for a 60 day(?) trial period. but first, go to a dealer and
listen to some of the bigger brothers MG12 (950), MG1.6
(1695?)...pair that with a good integrated amp (for small and moderate
rooms) + a decent source, you'll have glorious sound for under $3000.

given your budget (and not being a person that spends a lot on cables),
i'd recommend for example:

Creek 5350SE integrated amplifier(can be had on sale at places like
Elusive disc for 1349 - 10%-15% depending on the weekly sale) ~ 1200

Magnepan MG12: 950

leaving 850 for your source (of course i've not included tax)

there are lots of options for your source here. i haven't kept up as much
with sub-1k CD players lately, so i'll let others comment.

but i daresay that the Maggies and the Creek will make incredible music
that far exceeds what your dealer suggested (not sure what the price of
that package would be) even if you hooked up a cheap CD player...of course
a better source will make it all better, but i think the Maggies will be
the last thing you upgrade over the years and the Creek is a good match in
spite of its dimunitive size and power rating (135 wpc into 4 ohms).

best of luck and enjoy the fun of the upgrade process. listen to as many
configurations as possible. for your budget, you should get outstanding
sound which caters to your most important priorities (transparency,
soundstage, cohesiveness, dynamics, etc.)

-Derek

For whatever it's worth I own 2 Bryston 4B-NRB amplifiers and they have been
the least reliable of the dozen other 2-channel units I've used in the past
decade.

It's true that my applications sometimes involve challenging situations but my
whole stable, with one exception, tends to get the same treatment. 2nd prize
goes to Stewart pro-amps with switching power supplies. Next is Parasound. Then
Heathkit (25 years+ with no in-situ failures and one change of power supply
capacitors and eventual removal of scratchy level controls) and finally QSC and
Crown which have no failures of any kind.

However the last 2 are the newest, but the Crown Macro-Tech 5000VZ gets the
worst level of torture often called to put out heavy power into very low
impedance loads (caraudio subwoofers with dual 2-ohm voice coils wired in
parallel) and has yet to even burp in 4 years of service.

Elwood wrote:

Help.

I need advice with a planned upgrade. [...]

Listening Room:
15' x 21' with sloping ceiling from 9' to 15', speakers on the 9' side,
three large openings to other rooms, carpet, minimal furniture. Two of
the large opening on the back wall.

Current System:
NAD 314 integrated amp
Parasound C/DP 1000 CD player
Klipsch Cornwall I speakers
Velodyne DLS 4000 subwoofer

Current Impression:
Lacks dynamics. Light mid bass response on most recordings, seems to
lack punch. Music that is very busy sounds somewhat muddy. You must
concentrate to see the sound stage. Upper end can have slight edge, but
not bad overall.

Planned Purchases:

I was thinking of dumping the NAD and purchasing a Bryston 3B or 4B NRB
or ST amp. The preamp that I had in mind was the Audio Research LS3 or
LP9MKII. How would these components play together? Which pre would
better suit the Bryston? How would the whole thing match the Klipsch?
Am I on the right track? What about the room, do I need another subwoofer?

I am not familiar with all your equipment, but I believe that
*every* element of your current impression could be (partly)
due to room acoustics. I am not saying that room acoustics are
your problem, just that you should consider them along with
equipment issues.

Along that line, the light bass could be a resonance effect,
or you could just be losing it through the large openings in
the room. The muddiness on busy music could be excess
reverberation. (That symptom cleared up in my room after
installation of tube traps.) Edginess in high frequencies can
be from many causes. A common one is slap echo, too much
reverberation in the room at high frequencies. Another
potential cause is distortion in the high frequencies.
Finally, not a little recorded music can sound edgy when
played back on neutral equipment, because of the recording
techniques, equalization, or microphones used.

Of the equipment you mentioned, I have heard some of the
Bryston ST and SST amplifiers (I use a 14B SST). My
impression is that the SST gear (newest models) is cleaner in
the high frequencies than the ST pieces (immediately previous
line). That has also been the impression of reviewers. So if
HF subtlety is important to you, try to find an SST piece. To
me, the Bryston amps have good dynamics. If you should find
the sound lacking dynamics after buying one, the problem is
most likely something else.

I owned either an LS2B or LS3B at one time. I found it rather
thin in tonal balance (and I am not a fan of warm *or* cool
colorations in electronics). Because of my poor memory, that
statement is probably not much help to you, but if at all
possible, listen before you buy.


Mike Prager
North Carolina, USA