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#1
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What
about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml |
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#2
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action |
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#3
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote:
"nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. |
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#4
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil
wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message . .. "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. The way to control crime is to control criminals, not law-abiding people. It's a lot tougher task, granted, because law-abiding people are amenable to obeying the law ( duh ), while criminals routinely break it. -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#5
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
In article ,
wrote: dw: I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. You'd think Britain would be depopulated by now. Just what RAO needs, a gun thread. Stephen |
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#6
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 7:42 am, MiNe 109 wrote:
In article , wrote: dw: I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. You'd think Britain would be depopulated by now. Just what RAO needs, a gun thread. They're kind of fum. They pull the rednecks out of the woodwork. So let's Git 'er done! |
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#7
Posted to rec.audio.opinion
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 5:42 am, MiNe 109 wrote:
In article , wrote: dw: I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. You'd think Britain would be depopulated by now. Just what RAO needs, a gun thread. Stephen It wouldn't be such a big deal if the anti-gun side would simply be honest enough to look at all the data in context. |
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#8
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
wrote in
: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...ico/main269814 1.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. So Cho was just exercising his "right to self defense" when he walked on to campus with all those guns? |
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#9
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Mitchell Holman" wrote in message ... wrote in : On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message . .. "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...ico/main269814 1.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. So Cho was just exercising his "right to self defense" when he walked on to campus with all those guns? Man you are one dumb som-bitch The loony-ben system failed to protect society after he was found a danger to him self, Libs run the asylum for the most part. The skoo failed their student body for having a loony policy of protecting loons from being expelled or even suspended. -- CB "We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans..." --Bill Clinton "We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." --Senator Hillary Clinton 2004 Karl Marx Manifesto of the Communist Party 1848 |
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#10
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:25:18 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote:
He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or, in the recent case here in Tennessee, a kid gets murdered by said homeowner who has discovered that said kid was having an affair with his wife. It's easy to claim events that may or may not have happened because you *think* that it's possible. That's not much of a defense. |
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#11
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
dave weil said: Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Not true. The accurate estimates run between 275 per year and -63,000,000. The larger number is negative because that's the number of victims who weren't attacking the gun-toter. Did you know that fully 60% of all gun-related deaths are caused or influenced by atmospheric carbon monoxide? [snip] It's easy to claim events that may or may not have happened because you *think* that it's possible. That's not much of a defense. The gun nuts are really Darwinists, you know. Aiming a firearm is a true survival skill. -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
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#12
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 09:13:19 -0500, dave weil
wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:25:18 -0400, in rec.audio.opinion you wrote: He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or, in the recent case here in Tennessee, a kid gets murdered by said homeowner who has discovered that said kid was having an affair with his wife. Would it make any difference if he had bashed the kid's head in with a bat ? Or slit his throat ? Murder is murder, a crime is a crime. It's easy to claim events that may or may not have happened because you *think* that it's possible. That's not much of a defense. Nor is it much of an offense, even though the anti-gunners like to use it in both directions. -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#13
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
In article ,
wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message . .. "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...main2698141.sh tml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. snip That would be one in three Americans. Sorry, not believable. |
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#14
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
Jenn said: 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. snip That would be one in three Americans. Sorry, not believable. More like 1 in 300. (Did you skip your morning caffeine dosage?) -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
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#15
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:07:08 GMT, Jenn
wrote: In article , wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message . .. "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...main2698141.sh tml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. snip That would be one in three Americans. Sorry, not believable. You didn't do very well in math in school, did you ? Try it again. Hint - there are just a WEE bit more than 3,000,000 people in this country. -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#16
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. **Bull****. Those "estimates" are nothing but wild speculation. There are somewhat less than 200 DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) resulting in the death of the perp each year in the US. A handful more result in injury. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. **Then how the **** can you say that 1,000,000 DGUs occur each year? The ONLY DGUs of interest are the ones which are reported to police. Anything else is a delusion. There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. **Great way to get criminals off the street. NOT! What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. **A gun is not necessarily the best method for acheiving that. All the other Western, developed nations allow for self defence for their citizens. They're just not allowed to carry guns around the streets to do it. And amazingly enough, fewer people get shot to death in the process. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. **Better tell that to the Texas legislators. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. **Where did you get the impression that any rights of self defence should be removed? The way to control crime is to control criminals, not law-abiding people. It's a lot tougher task, granted, because law-abiding people are amenable to obeying the law ( duh ), while criminals routinely break it. **What makes sense is this: Allowing nutters easy access to guns is bad public policy. Vermont does exactly this. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#17
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:23:57 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message . .. "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. **Bull****. Those "estimates" are nothing but wild speculation. There are somewhat less than 200 DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) resulting in the death of the perp each year in the US. A handful more result in injury. Predictably, you miss the point. A gun does not need to be FIRED in order to be used defensively. In fact, most often it is not. ANy sane law-abiding gun owner is going to ( if needed ) DISPLAY the weapon, and give the criminal opportunity to submit of leave, etc. Pulling the trigger is that LAST thing, the FINAL step, and to be avoided if posible. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. **Then how the **** can you say that 1,000,000 DGUs occur each year? The ONLY DGUs of interest are the ones which are reported to police. Anything else is a delusion. YOU are a ****ing delusion. plonk There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. **Great way to get criminals off the street. NOT! What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. **A gun is not necessarily the best method for acheiving that. All the other Western, developed nations allow for self defence for their citizens. They're just not allowed to carry guns around the streets to do it. And amazingly enough, fewer people get shot to death in the process. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. **Better tell that to the Texas legislators. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. **Where did you get the impression that any rights of self defence should be removed? The way to control crime is to control criminals, not law-abiding people. It's a lot tougher task, granted, because law-abiding people are amenable to obeying the law ( duh ), while criminals routinely break it. **What makes sense is this: Allowing nutters easy access to guns is bad public policy. Vermont does exactly this. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#18
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 12:23 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Apr2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...tico/main26981... The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. **Bull****. Those "estimates" are nothing but wild speculation. There are somewhat less than 200 DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) resulting in the death of the perp each year in the US. A handful more result in injury. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. **Then how the **** can you say that 1,000,000 DGUs occur each year? The ONLY DGUs of interest are the ones which are reported to police. Anything else is a delusion. How can you collect accurate data from people who don't file police reports when they scare away a criminal? There's an attempted mugging or rape in a dark parking garage, the CCW holder shows his/her gun, attacker runs away, CCW holder gets in car and drives off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. Or Home-owner sees someone lurking around the bushes, peering in the windows, etc, goes outside with his/her gun and chases them off. No shots fired, no police report, no statistics. **Great way to get criminals off the street. NOT! You'll never get them off the stree, but you don't have to allow yourself to be a victim. What it comes down to is the RIGHT ( not 'priviledge' ) of self defense. **A gun is not necessarily the best method for acheiving that. All the other Western, developed nations allow for self defence for their citizens. They're just not allowed to carry guns around the streets to do it. And amazingly enough, fewer people get shot to death in the process. But what about the other ways to get yourself killed? Removing guns does not mean reducing crime. http://www.gunsandcrime.org/ Look at the facts about Australia: GUN CONTROL IN AUSTRALIA An excerpt. What Has Happened, and How 20 Oct 01 The AIC and the media worked on maintaining high support for the new gun laws. On November 4, 1996 the AIC released "Violent Deaths and Firearms in Australia: Data & Trends." About 70 percent of this 96- page report (RPP04) is about firearm deaths. The rest is about Australian homicide over the years. On the same day the AIC also issued a media release entitled "Lax firearm laws mean more deaths." The actual report is a generally professional statistical analysis with some scattered bias, like constantly referring to "firearm caused" deaths. But the media release was blatantly biased and drew unwarranted conclusions about firearms prevalence and death rates. The media release opened by declaring that the AIC report "shows that Australian states in which guns have been more easily available have significantly higher death rates than the national average"-and listing 1994 firearm (not total) death rates for the states and territories. The media release title and opening statement tried to make the public think something about deaths in general although the material was only about those deaths in which firearms were the instruments used to cause such deaths. Then, among findings mentioned, the media release stated that the firearms death rate had fallen over the past decade "as legislation of the late 1980s in some states has made firearms somewhat more difficult to obtain," that "those states in which firearms regulation and licensing have been less stringent have had significantly higher [gun} death rates than the national average" and that the usual small group of countries have less gun homicides than the USA because the USA has more guns. All these statements were attempts to make the public think that the legislation in some states and countries had reduced gun death rates and that states/countries with less stringent control had higher death rates as a result, ignoring the possibility that the higher and lower gun death rates might be caused by something other than gun laws or gun prevalence. The report actually had no facts upon which to base such conclusions. Note that the AIC switched to addressing homicide rather than total deaths when discussing international comparisons since some of the countries have higher suicide rates than the USA. The media release used the usual gun controller tricks of addressing "firearm" deaths, and also including accidents and suicides. They focus on "firearm" deaths/injuries because they can always show reductions in these if firearm availability is reduced, even though total deaths and injuries are not affected and such availability reductions might actually cause more deaths/injuries than they prevent. They include accidents and suicides in their discussions because Australia has so few firearm murders and other homicides that the numbers and rates would not tend to upset people much, especially in comparison to other types that are much more numerous. Also, because the numbers are so small, they vary a great deal randomly from one year to the next so that a plot will not clearly show a definite trend over time. Gun controllers are able to upset the public much more by including suicides in their death figures. What the gun controllers don't want people to know is that it has been proven (and confirmed) that reducing the prevalence of firearms does not reduce (total) suicide rates even though it does in fact reduce firearm suicide rates. People wanting to commit suicide simple use another tool/method when a firearm is not available. [Doctors typically don't believe this because they know that a firearm is more certain to kill than some other methods that are frequently used, and they've told each other that some large portion of suicides are impulsive, spur of the moment events. What they fail to account for is that there is no shortage of equally deadly methods, and a person who fails in a suicide attempt is very likely just to try again and again (often without others even knowing) until he or she succeeds.] The truth is that the claim about availability was unfounded from a scientific research standpoint. The report had not even addressed "availability" in the various states, even by reference to some existing analysis, much less quantified it. (They couldn't reference an analysis because there had not been one.) What the data in the report actually showed (in combination with what GunsAndCrime.org has been able to learn about gun laws in the late '80s and early '90s) was that: 1. The "gun death" rate for NSW rose progressively for three years after effectivity ('90) of the NSW Firearms Act 1989, before finally falling for just the last two years of the period (meaning the gun death rate reduction was not caused by the law); 2. The final drop in the NSW gun death rate did occur upon effectivity of the major '91 amendments to the law, but this was only for two years (not enough to qualify as a statistically significant trend) and the pattern actually resulted from a rather random combination of ups and downs of gun homicide and gun accidents added to a minor drop in gun suicides. 3. The gun death rate for Tasmania showed no statistically significant change in the two years of effectivity ('93 & '94) of the Tasmania Guns Act 1991, and the small reduction was entirely the result of the rate being artificially high in '92 because of an abnormally high suicide rate for that year (i.e., there was no reason to think that the law had any impact on gun death rate); and, 4. Only Queensland had a sustained decline that started with the effectivity of its new gun law, the Firearms Act 1990, and extending through '94. Our entire legal system is founded on the concept of 'protection of the rights of the innocent', even when they have the undesired effect of protecting the rights of the guilty. Our entire legal system is based on the concept of 'better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent man goes to jail'. **Better tell that to the Texas legislators. Why are they somehow more corrupt than other legislators? I doubt it. The same applies to self-defense - it is not acceptable for even one person to be stripped of their RIGHT to self-defense, regardless of whether there are criminals in society who find in that a way to twist it to their advantage. **Where did you get the impression that any rights of self defence should be removed? If you remove a method of self defense, then you have removed part of the right. The way to control crime is to control criminals, not law-abiding people. It's a lot tougher task, granted, because law-abiding people are amenable to obeying the law ( duh ), while criminals routinely break it. **What makes sense is this: Allowing nutters easy access to guns is bad public policy. Vermont does exactly this. Nutters get guns anyway despite every law. Law abiding citizens should not be left with less defense because of the few nut cases who will kill anyway. |
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#19
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 12:23 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: wrote in message ... On Fri, 20 Apr2007 07:10:43 -0500, dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...tico/main26981... The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. 'handful' my ass. Most estimates put it at over 1,000,000 per year. **Bull****. Those "estimates" are nothing but wild speculation. There are somewhat less than 200 DGUs (Defensive Gun Uses) resulting in the death of the perp each year in the US. A handful more result in injury. Of course, they can ONLY be SWAG's because, by the nature of the situations, 90 % + of them go unreported. **Then how the **** can you say that 1,000,000 DGUs occur each year? The ONLY DGUs of interest are the ones which are reported to police. Anything else is a delusion. By studying the data and how it was arrived at hehttp:// www.gunsandcrime.org/dgufreq.html THE KLECK (AND GERTZ) STUDY ON FREQUENCY OF DEFENSIVE GUN USES (and Gun Controller Criticism of It) RESULTS 222 of the 4799 respondents reported having at least one DGU in their household in the past 5 years. After correcting for oversampling in some regions, this figure drops to 66 personal accounts of DGUs in the preceding year, indicating that 1.326 percent of adults nationwide had experienced at least one DGU. When multiplied by 1.478, the average number of DGUs reported per DGU claimant for the preceding year, and by the total adult population, an estimate of 2.55 million DGUs per year was arrived at. However, Kleck reviewed the record associated with each reported DGU and flagged every report for which: (1)it was not clear if the respondent had actually confronted the perpetrator; (2)the respondent was a police officer, soldier, or security guard; (3)the interviewer had not properly recorded exactly what the respondent had done with the gun, so it was not certain that the respondent had actually used the gun; or, (4)the record did not state a specific crime the respondent thought was being committed. When all such cases were eliminated, the results were 1.125 percent of adults had used guns defensively an average of 1.472 times each, for a total of 2.16 million DGUs per year. This, then is the K-G conservative estimate of annual DGUs. So, rather than saying that K-G found that there are 2.5 million DGUs per year, we should say that there are up to 2.5 million, or be more conservative and say something like over 2 million. Note that an average of 1.472 DGUs per person implies that some people are involved in DGUs much more frequently than others. In their report K-G say that the sampling error for 95 percent confidence interval is plus or minus .32 percent for the unpurged 2.55 million estimate for DGU frequency. The corresponding sampling error for the more conservative 2.16 million estimate would be something greater because the purging would have reduced the sample size. However, do not assume that the results are actually this accurate since these sampling errors do not account for any biases in the survey. |
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#20
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 7:10 am, dave weil wrote:
He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Just think how crime would drop if we could carry grenades and RPGs. |
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#21
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 20, 7:10 am, dave weil wrote: He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Just think how crime would drop if we could carry grenades and RPGs. We can always count on extreme comparisons. I suppose that's why pollsters throw out the 10% opposite extremes to get an average sample. |
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#22
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!" wrote:
On Apr 20, 7:10 am, dave weil wrote: He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Just think how crime would drop if we could carry grenades and RPGs. Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. When phased plasma rifles are outlawd, only terminators will have phased plasma rifles. |
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#24
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
dave weil wrote:
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Don't confuse CB with facts. RT |
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#25
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Rich Travsky" wrote in message ... dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Don't confuse CB with facts. Just think if Holocaust survivor Professor Liviu Librescu threw a pullet at loon murderer Cho Seung-Hui rather than him self, the bloodshed would have ended there. RT |
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#26
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:33:11 -0400, "CB" wrote:
"Rich Travsky" wrote in message ... dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Don't confuse CB with facts. Just think if Holocaust survivor Professor Liviu Librescu threw a pullet at loon murderer Cho Seung-Hui rather than him self, the bloodshed would have ended there. Yes, throwing young chickens is known to scare the bejezus out of mass murderers... |
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#27
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Rich Travsky" wrote in message ... dave weil wrote: On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 07:36:57 -0400, "CB" wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Yesterday, one of the major proponents of Right To Carry laws was on CNN once again during Virginia Tech coverage claiming that people packing guns kept the crime rate down, if teachers were allowed to be toting handguns things like this wouldn't happen, blah, blah, blah. His major claim was that the crime rate dropped everywhere Right To Carry laws were instituted. So I decided to do a quick survey and it turns out that yes, crime rates have dropped in those states. However, crime has dropped roughly the same rate in the two states that still don't have any concealed carry laws at this date, Illinois and Michigan. Crime has generally been dropping since the mid-80s whether or not concealed carry laws have been put on the books. He also trotted out one of those occasions where vigilanties prevented crime. Well, with 12,000 plus gun-related murders a year, and something like 30,000 gun deaths of all kinds a year, I'm not sure if it really matters that a handful of lives have been saved by some amateurs lucky enough not to have killed bystanders or themselves. Don't confuse CB with facts. Just think if Holocaust survivor Professor Liviu Librescu threw a bullet at loon murderer Cho Seung-Hui rather than him self, the bloodshed would have ended there. |
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#28
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:34:52 -0400, "CB" wrote:
Just think if Holocaust survivor Professor Liviu Librescu threw a bullet at loon murderer Cho Seung-Hui rather than him self, the bloodshed would have ended there. I threw a bullet at someone once - it bounced harmlessly off of his arm. |
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#29
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"CB" wrote in message ... "nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. By an amazing coincidence, the US also has the highest (by a very considerable margin) homicide rate, via the use of firearms, of any Western, developed nation. It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action **Yadda, yadda, yadda. You suck up that **** shovelled to you by the NRA. It's working real well for you. NOT! -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#30
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:02:31 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: "CB" wrote in message .. . "nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. Yes. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. Bull****. GO read them. By an amazing coincidence, the US also has the highest (by a very considerable margin) homicide rate, via the use of firearms, of any Western, developed nation. It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action **Yadda, yadda, yadda. You suck up that **** shovelled to you by the NRA. It's working real well for you. NOT! -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!! http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/ Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.' 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.' HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/ |
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#31
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
wrote in message ... On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:02:31 +1000, "Trevor Wilson" wrote: "CB" wrote in message . .. "nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. Yes. **Incorrect. I suggest you acquaint yourself with Swiss gun control laws. They are MUCH tougher, saner and, most importantly, homogenous than US gun control laws. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. Bull****. GO read them. **I HAVE read them. I suggest you read them. You will be in for a bit of a surprise. The Swiss employ VERY tough gun control laws. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#32
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 08:12:28 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Sat, 21 Apr 2007 05:02:31 +1000, "Trevor Wilson" wrote: "CB" wrote in message .. . "nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...rms-per-capita There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. Yes. **Incorrect. I suggest you acquaint yourself with Swiss gun control laws. They are MUCH tougher, saner and, most importantly, homogenous than US gun control laws. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. Bull****. GO read them. **I HAVE read them. I suggest you read them. You will be in for a bit of a surprise. The Swiss employ VERY tough gun control laws. But they DO issue concealed carry permits to private individuals. It's impossible to compare a small homogeneous and upper middle class society like Switzerland with a country like the US as the pro-gun people like to do. After all, the citizenry *is* actually the well-regulated militia mentioned in the 2nd Amendment as the the sole reason for not restricting gun ownership. Plus, there's very little "underclass". |
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#33
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 20, 12:02 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: "CB" wrote in message ... "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...tico/main26981... The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...p-crime-murder... There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. By an amazing coincidence, the US also has the highest (by a very considerable margin) homicide rate, via the use of firearms, of any Western, developed nation. It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action **Yadda, yadda, yadda. You suck up that **** shovelled to you by the NRA. It's working real well for you. NOT! -- The stats are from the FBI and they have been the same regardless of administrations. The NRA does not run the government, they just keep reminding folks of the reason the 2nd amendment was included and how many other rights have been chipped away. |
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#34
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"avidlistener" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 20, 12:02 pm, "Trevor Wilson" wrote: "CB" wrote in message ... "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...tico/main26981... The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...p-crime-murder... There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. By an amazing coincidence, the US also has the highest (by a very considerable margin) homicide rate, via the use of firearms, of any Western, developed nation. It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action **Yadda, yadda, yadda. You suck up that **** shovelled to you by the NRA. It's working real well for you. NOT! -- The stats are from the FBI and they have been the same regardless of administrations. ***WTF are on about? The NRA does not run the government, they just keep reminding folks of the reason the 2nd amendment was included and how many other rights have been chipped away. **No. The NRA acts in the political system to ensure that the gun manufacturers have their needs served (to sell as many guns as they can), by whatever means they find necessary. The NRA bullies and cajoles to ensure that occurs. The NRA has employed primitive, but effective methods to brainwash large segments of the US population to believe that the NRA and the Second Amendment are necessary to their well-being. The NRA is pure evil. They have zero interest in the long term well-being of the US. They are acting for purely commercial reasons. This was not always the case. The NRA was once a noble and decent organisation, which cared for the welfare of the working man. Sometime in the 1960s, their purpose became perverted and twisted. Shame on you for not being more circumspect. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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#35
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On Apr 25, 10:37 pm, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote: "avidlistener" wrote in message oups.com... On Apr 20, 12:02 pm, "Trevor Wilson" wrote: "CB" wrote in message . .. "nebulax" wrote in message .. . "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...tico/main26981... The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! **How's that working for ya? Let's see: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...p-crime-murder... There's the US at #8, with 0.0279271/1,000 people. Now, where's the next nearest Western, developed nation? Here it is. Down at #19, with 0.00534117/1,000 people. Can the Swiss carry concealed guns around the streets? Nope. In fact, no other Western, developed nation allows it's people to carry concealed guns around the streets. Only in the US. In fact, the Swiss, like all the other Western, devloped nations have very tough, sane and homogenous gun control laws. By an amazing coincidence, the US also has the highest (by a very considerable margin) homicide rate, via the use of firearms, of any Western, developed nation. It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action **Yadda, yadda, yadda. You suck up that **** shovelled to you by the NRA. It's working real well for you. NOT! -- The stats are from the FBI and they have been the same regardless of administrations. ***WTF are on about? The NRA does not run the government, they just keep reminding folks of the reason the 2nd amendment was included and how many other rights have been chipped away. **No. The NRA acts in the political system to ensure that the gun manufacturers have their needs served (to sell as many guns as they can), by whatever means they find necessary. The NRA bullies and cajoles to ensure that occurs. The NRA has employed primitive, but effective methods to brainwash large segments of the US population to believe that the NRA and the Second Amendment are necessary to their well-being. The NRA is pure evil. They have zero interest in the long term well-being of the US. They are acting for purely commercial reasons. This was not always the case. The NRA was once a noble and decent organisation, which cared for the welfare of the working man. Sometime in the 1960s, their purpose became perverted and twisted. Trevor, you are a loon. Despite whatever efforts you think the NRA makes, the number of guns in circulation has remained fairly constant for decades, no matter the crime rate. The NRA want anyone who owns a gun to properly trained in the safe usage of these weapons, and for good reason. Those who have such training are not going to be a problem. Their purpose is the same as it ever was, the change you preceive is due to the fact that the 60's was the time when the anti- gun lobby started trying to gu the 2nd Ammendment. Shame on you for not being more circumspect. -- Shame on you for not doing your homework. |
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#36
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
On 25 Apr 2007 22:28:42 -0700, avidlistener
wrote: The stats are from the FBI and they have been the same regardless of administrations. The NRA does not run the government, they just keep reminding folks of the reason the 2nd amendment was included and how many other rights have been chipped away. I hope they turn their attention to the Patriot Act pretty soon then... |
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#37
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
CB wrote:
"nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Of course you've got a test for a "criminal mind"? Like all the traders at Enron? --Jeff -- We can have democracy or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of the few. We cannot have both. --Justice Louis Brandeis |
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#38
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"Jeffrey Turner" wrote in message ... CB wrote: "nebulax" wrote in message ... "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/...n2698141.shtml The more guns 'LAW ABIDING CITIZENS' have the less a dirt bags will have to carry out dirt deeds! It's not the gun you ass, it's the criminal mind that puts thought into action Of course you've got a test for a "criminal mind"? Like all the traders at Enron? If ever a test was passed, it was by Alec Baldwin -- CB China and Russia sell arms to Syria and Iran. Iran and Syria supply their surrogates, in Hezbollah, el Qaeda and the rest, America is forced to fight Islamo-fascism for fear of them coming to her shores and Libs fight to keep America's President down while preventing America from being Energy independent of OPEC, the perfect storm. |
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#39
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
CB said: Of course you've got a test for a "criminal mind"? If ever a test was passed, it was by Alec Baldwin Hmm.... He's not in jail, not awaiting trial, not even accused of a crime. Are you blaming him for one of his brothers' didos? -- Krooscience: The antidote to education, experience, and excellence. |
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#40
Posted to alt.politics.usa.republican,rec.audio.opinion,talk.politics.misc,triangle.general
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Why the NRA Gets Its Way
"nebulax" wrote in
: "We are captives, the majority here, of the NRA. To hell with the NRA! What about the society? I don't get it." - Rep. Alcee L. Hastings, D-Fla http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/.../main2698141.s html "You would get a far better understanding if you approached us as if you were approaching one of the great religions of the world." NRA Vice President Warren Cassidy (Time,1/29/90, p.16) |
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