Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
person who has heard it 100 times?

In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?

NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.

I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

Jenn said:

I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

On behalf of the Normals, I'd like to accept your clarification as truthful
and straightforward.

It's certainly sad that certain Others are unwilling to accept you meant
just what you said and no more.

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
- I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be heard,
and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts involve
sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound that can be
heard. Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves sounds that go as
high as 12-18 KHz.

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and
who has the live music experience that I have, will be a
better judge of the sound of an audio system AS IT
COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

This is a straw man argument because Jenn is not discussing this matter with
average persons. She's discussing it with audiophiles, many of which are
frequent attenders at live concerts.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
- I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be
heard, and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts
involve sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound
that can be heard. Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves
sounds that go as high as 12-18 KHz.

Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise you
want, but you cannot hide this fact.

Robert Morein said:

Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise you
want, but you cannot hide this fact.

You've been around RAO long enough to know that the chief purpose of Mr.
****'s "debating trade" is to smear feces on facts.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast [dot] net wrote
in message ...


Robert Morein said:

Arny, she hears more and better than you do. Make all the noxious noise
you
want, but you cannot hide this fact.

You've been around RAO long enough to know that the chief purpose of Mr.
****'s "debating trade" is to smear feces on facts.

Only if they don't go his way

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading
ability and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby
showing that they have a weak argument), I'll clairfy my
position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed
- I wonder when Vlad will show up with his supposed
evidence about this LOL) that I have better hearing than
anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just above average
for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

Note that typical hearing tests relate to how small of a sound can be heard,
and are usually limited to 8 KHz on the high end. Live concerts involve
sounds that are at least 60-80 dB louder than the smallest sound that can be
heard.

So?

Sound quality as perceived by audiophiles involves sounds that go as
high as 12-18 KHz.

How is this different than what I am required to hear?

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and
who has the live music experience that I have, will be a
better judge of the sound of an audio system AS IT
COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

This is a straw man argument because Jenn is not discussing this matter with
average persons. She's discussing it with audiophiles, many of which are
frequent attenders at live concerts.

And quantity doesn't matter, right?

"Jenn" wrote in message
oups.com...
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".

[snip]

Jenn,
You are a gutsy lady, and my hat is off to you.

Jenn wrote:
I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about your preference of
LP's producing the timbre of instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny
found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been listening to
information, not MUSIC. And given his limited financial means, he will
go on doing so for the rest of his life.. He will pop a CD into his mass
market pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn the
information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into music in his head.
It must take a lot of strecthing of the imagination to do so..... I
think one of the reasons why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person
constantly is this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
imagine the information coming to him from his stereo system as music.

OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to strings, violins, from
sonus faber speakers (concerto grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona
floorstander) fed by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being Linn genki or
better Ikemi OR plinius cd101. Not all cd players, amps, speakers, sound
the same you know.

In article ,
Fella wrote:

Jenn wrote:
I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.

I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about your preference of
LP's producing the timbre of instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny
found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been listening to
information, not MUSIC. And given his limited financial means, he will
go on doing so for the rest of his life.. He will pop a CD into his mass
market pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn the
information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into music in his head.
It must take a lot of strecthing of the imagination to do so..... I
think one of the reasons why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person
constantly is this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
imagine the information coming to him from his stereo system as music.

OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to strings, violins, from
sonus faber speakers (concerto grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona
floorstander)

Have done so, at the Analogue Room, San Jose. Fabulous!

fed by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being Linn genki or
better Ikemi OR plinius cd101.

Thanks; I'll look for them.

Not all cd players, amps, speakers, sound
the same you know.

Really?? :-)

"Fella" wrote in message


I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
listening to information, not MUSIC.

Absolutely bizarre.

And given his limited financial means, he will go on doing so for the
rest of his life..

Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
these days. We've got Art Sackman who delusionally believes that he has
monitored my email for the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
not receive. We've got Fella who claims to monitor my tax returns and
financial receipts.

BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
extremely rich, and who will know? Fella can be brave and rich while he
hides behind his made-uup alias.

He will pop a CD into his mass market
pioneer cd player and go on constantly struggling to turn
the information coming to him from the QSC NHT setup into
music in his head.

Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about all
the live music I listen to.

It must take a lot of strecthing of
the imagination to do so..... I think one of the reasons
why Arny is such a rude and obtuse person constantly is
this constant struggle and effort he has to put forth to
imagine the information coming to him from his stereo
system as music.

Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many high
end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of them sound
pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

OTOH, Jenn, you might want to try to listening to
strings, violins, from sonus faber speakers (concerto
grand piano, cremona auditor, cremona floorstander) fed
by plinius or some odyssey audio amps (stratos+ or the
stratos mono extremes to be precise) and the SOURCE being
Linn genki or better Ikemi OR plinius cd101. Not all cd
players, amps, speakers, sound the same you know.

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Fella" wrote in message



I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
listening to information, not MUSIC.


Absolutely bizarre.

That one listens to information from a pioneer - qsc -lamp cord - nht
setup and converts it to music by means of rigorous use of imagination?
Absolutely agree.



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
these days.


Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.


BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
extremely rich,

Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not need to be
extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a pair of sonus faber
speakers, for instance.. A regular well paying job is more then enough
to get all these goodies.

BTW: If you think that you can deter me with all this putting words in
my mouth trading debate bull****, you have another thing coming boy. You
know very well from past experience that I can virtually beat you to a
pulp anytime I wish to take you on so watch it!


Fella can be brave and rich while he
hides behind his made-uup alias.

Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences, theories and
knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT ID CARDS!

My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent, repugnant and
obnoxious little lost soul that you are is that you are deep down, an
audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED audiophile! But you deny yourself this, be it
for financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being fooled by the
non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have ended up listening to a
system feeding you information pertaining to music that leave you in a
constant cold and wanting state. You thus get frustrated and you went
your anger and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the simplest
of the explanations turn out to be true, you know.



Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about all
the live music I listen to.

I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's why I say this:

"Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself
had been suspecting all along;"

Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been nurturing this
doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to what real music is (since you
*do* hear it on occasion) and how far far away information signals you
are getting from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is
exactly what gets you so frustrated.



Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many high
end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of them sound
pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

Yeah, sure.

"Fella" wrote in message

Arny Krueger wrote:

"Fella" wrote in message



I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
listening to information, not MUSIC.

Absolutely bizarre.

That one listens to information from a pioneer - qsc
-lamp cord - nht setup and converts it to music by
means of rigorous use of imagination? Absolutely agree.

Well Fella given that you're hiding behind an alias, why not entertain us
with the incredible stereo system that you have, which is no doubt as
imaginary as your persona here.

Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
RAO sockpuppets these days.

Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.

I have no idea. But you're not posting under your real name.

BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can
pretend to be extremely rich.

Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not
need to be extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a
pair of sonus faber speakers, for instance.. A regular
well paying job is more then enough to get all these
goodies.

If sonus fabers are goodies. I've heard them - nothing special but the
looks.

Fella can be brave and rich while he
hides behind his made-uup alias.

Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences,
theories and knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT
ID CARDS!

In fact Fella's Sonus Fabers might be as imaginary as his persona, or not.

My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent,
repugnant and obnoxious little lost soul that you are is
that you are deep down, an audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED
audiophile!

I think this is true.

But you deny yourself this, be it for
financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being
fooled by the non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have
ended up listening to a system feeding you information
pertaining to music that leave you in a constant cold and
wanting state.

The wanting state is a figment of your imagination, Fella. I have the audio
equipment that I want to have.

You thus get frustrated and you went your
anger and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the
simplest of the explanations turn out to be true, you
know.

If anything frustrates me, its people like you who make up purported facts,
like the above.

Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does
not know about all the live music I listen to.

I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's
why I say this:

"Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt,
what he himself had been suspecting all along;"

Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been
nurturing this doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to
what real music is (since you *do* hear it on occasion)
and how far far away information signals you are getting
from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is
exactly what gets you so frustrated.

Fella, a steady diet of live music and experiences with mixing live sounds
and recordings does the exact opposite.

Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know
about the many high end audio systems that I've listened
to in recent times. Some of them sound pretty good, but
none of them sound head-and-shoulders better than a
well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

Yeah, sure.

Thanks for denying that I attended HE2005 Fella - given that there is so
much evidence that I actually was there. Heard the recording? Seen the
pictures?

Arny Krueger wrote:



Well Fella given that you're hiding behind an alias, why not entertain us
with the incredible stereo system that you have,

Well arn old boy, old chum, nice of you to ask. Right now I employ sonus
faber concerto grand piano speakers, odyssey audio stratos+ power amp
(120000uF capacitors, 60 amps per channel current delivery!), the
odyssey tempest preamp and the judge is still out there for the CD
player (hence the reason why I returned to this opinion group).. I am in
an audition state comparing the linn genki to the plinius cd101. And
BOY! is the genki putting up a fight! Amazing, actually.. I digress.

There are thousands and thousands of people all around the world with
stuff like this arny. Why would *I* be the one just imagining to own
them? What's so special and unattainable about them, do you think? Are
you perhaps, projecting again, arn old boy old chum you?


Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not
need to be extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a
pair of sonus faber speakers, for instance.. A regular
well paying job is more then enough to get all these
goodies.


If sonus fabers are goodies. I've heard them - nothing special but the
looks.

The question was this: "Where did I say I was extremely rich arny?"
Didn't ask your worthless spitefull and hatemail opinion about any SF
speakers.

The question still is: "Where did I say I was extremely rich arny?"




Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences,
theories and knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT
ID CARDS!


In fact Fella's Sonus Fabers might be as imaginary as his persona, or not.

Woah! arny, that's some mother of a counter argument, I am flabbergasted.




But you deny yourself this, be it for
financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being
fooled by the non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have
ended up listening to a system feeding you information
pertaining to music that leave you in a constant cold and
wanting state.


The wanting state is a figment of your imagination, Fella.


Ok, like I said, just a theory, my two cents, as it were. So how do
*you* explain this beyond-negative existence of yours then arn old boy?


I have the audio
equipment that I want to have.

You think so at least. But the subconscious, the alter ego is a funny
thing to fool with. You constantly have to tell yourself that "this
is OK! this sound is OK! this is MUSIC ferchrissakes!" when you are
listening to music at home. Sad.





If anything frustrates me, its people like you who make up purported facts,
like the above.

This theory of mine would not have angered you if there wasn't some
truth to it, yes? Yes. Thanks.

You theorize that I have no stereos to speak of, or SF speakers sound
ordinary, etc. Look and see if I care.




Thanks for denying that I attended HE2005 Fella - given that there is so
much evidence that I actually was there. Heard the recording? Seen the
pictures?
Yeah once in your friggin life you went to high end show:

1) It was a once in a lifetime deal. I don't think even JA is polyanna
enough to invite you a second time.
2) you get the worst kind of sound in those shows, cramped up, crowded,
noisy, yuck. Been there, done that. No good. You get a "hint" in those
shows, nothing else.

"Fella" wrote in message
...
Arny Krueger wrote:

"Fella" wrote in message



I think I know the reason why Arny got so upset about
your preference of LP's producing the timbre of
instruments "right" for you Jenn; Arny found out from
you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along; All these years he has been
listening to information, not MUSIC.


Absolutely bizarre.

That one listens to information from a pioneer - qsc -lamp cord - nht
setup and converts it to music by means of rigorous use of imagination?
Absolutely agree.



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
these days.


Just whose sockpuppet am I, according to you.

I doubt that anybody would want to create a sockpuppet as foolish and nasty
as you are.

BTW one of the nice things about Usnenet is that one can pretend to be
extremely rich,

Where did I say I was extremely rich arny? One does not need to be
extremely rich at all to be able to enjoy a pair of sonus faber speakers,
for instance.. A regular well paying job is more then enough to get all
these goodies.

BTW: If you think that you can deter me with all this putting words in my
mouth trading debate bull****, you have another thing coming boy. You know
very well from past experience that I can virtually beat you to a pulp
anytime I wish to take you on so watch it!


Being more vulgar and telling gigantic lies, while pretending it means
something is not really winning, it's just out grossing.

Fella can be brave and rich while he hides behind his made-uup alias.

Made-uup or not it is *ideas*, opinions, preferences, theories and
knowledge that are being exchanged here, NOT ID CARDS!

My theory explaining as to why you are the abhorrent, repugnant and
obnoxious little lost soul that you are is that you are deep down, an
audiophile, a GOLDEN EARED audiophile! But you deny yourself this, be it
for financial or otherwise reasons, be it because of being fooled by the
non applicable DBT ABX tests, and you have ended up listening to a system
feeding you information pertaining to music that leave you in a constant
cold and wanting state. You thus get frustrated and you went your anger
and frustration around here! Simple. Sometimes the simplest of the
explanations turn out to be true, you know.

Those are the only ones you seem capable of. Of course you are wrong as
usual.

Fella, overcome by delusions of omniscience somehow does not know about
all the live music I listen to.

I know you listen to live music on occasion and that's why I say this:

"Arny found out from you, without a shadow of a doubt, what he himself had
been suspecting all along;"

Yes Arn old boy, all along, deep down inside, you've been nurturing this
doubt, this deep shadowy suspicion as to what real music is (since you
*do* hear it on occasion) and how far far away information signals you are
getting from your stereo system badly disguised as music. This is exactly
what gets you so frustrated.



Furthermore in his delusional state, Fella does not know about the many
high end audio systems that I've listened to in recent times. Some of
them sound pretty good, but none of them sound head-and-shoulders better
than a well-designed, but far less expensive audio system.

Yeah, sure.

Still blaming the ABX test for your inability to hear differences?

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fella" wrote in message



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among RAO sockpuppets
these days. We've got Art Sackman who delusionally believes that he has
monitored my email for the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and
did not receive.

I don't need to read your email.
I know when you are lying when
you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
contradictory, and ever-changing fable.



--
Posted via NewsDemon.com - Premium Uncensored Newsgroup Service
-------http://www.NewsDemon.com------
Unlimited Access, Anonymous Accounts, Uncensored Broadband Access

"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fella" wrote in message



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
not receive.

I don't need to read your email.

I know when you are lying when
you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
contradictory, and ever-changing fable.

Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink this
low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
exceeded that of the email.

BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.

The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
that came out of the analysis by the MSP.

The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are more
insulting, more profane, and more childish.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fella" wrote in message



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
not receive.

I don't need to read your email.

I know when you are lying when
you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
contradictory, and ever-changing fable.

Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink
this low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
exceeded that of the email.

No, Arny, it has not. You're the bad guy, not Art.

BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.

Prove it.


The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
that came out of the analysis by the MSP.

The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are
more insulting, more profane, and more childish.
A "fair" comment? Then would be equally fair to say that nasty people suffer
personal tragedies.
Absurd.

Arny Krueger wrote:
I had occasionally received pornographic email from more
clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.

It saddens me that you keep raising this matter on an audio
newesgroup, Mr. Krueger. And _now_ you make a make a new
claim almost 9 _years_ after this tragic event. Please, please
leave it alone.

John Atkinson
Editor, Stereophile

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Clyde Slick" wrote in message

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Fella" wrote in message



Delusions of omniscience seem to be a real problem among
RAO sockpuppets these days. We've got Art Sackman who
delusionally believes that he has monitored my email for
the past 6-7 years and knows what email I did and did
not receive.

I don't need to read your email.

I know when you are lying when
you tell a completely implausible, inconsistent,
contradictory, and ever-changing fable.

Given the misbehavior of Middius, Briggs, Benchemol, and more resently
Sackman over the years, its completely plausable that people would sink
this low. Their, and more recently Art your online behavior has matched or
exceeded that of the email.


So, what behavior do you consider to
be equal or worse than sending kiddie porn emails?


BTW, the "deadnate" email was not unique - I had occasionally received
pornographic email from more clearly-tracable RAO sources previously.


where are those specific accusations?


The only thing that has changed over the years was the added information
that came out of the analysis by the MSP.


What was the name, badge number and rank of the MSP
officer that you talked to?

The common thread is that the perpetrators of just about all of this foul
behavior has generally been traceable to people of the so-called
subjectivist persuasion. As a rule subjectivists posting on Usenet are
more insulting, more profane, and more childish.



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Jenn wrote:
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
person who has heard it 100 times?

In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?

NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.

I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

I consider myself fortunate to have a real--life professional
musician grace these too often moronic pages. As far as I know
you're one of the very few to take interest.
I think Von Karajan took some interest But obviously not enough- look
what a mess DG made of the best of his music...
On the other hand... (Can't help being argumentative) most
musicians I met couldn't care less about hifi. The symphony violinists
I met always wanted it louder "bacause I can't hear my violin"..
And can I indulge in the "debating trade" and say that I'd rather
listen
to Klemperer conducting stone- deaf than to the thinkers
like Sullivan, Chung, NYOB et al, perfect hearing and all,
all together or separately.
Not to bring Beethoven down
from the Olympus as a material witness that "good hearing" is not
all that this is about. Nor is money.Nor is pop acceptance,
How about something elusive,
not in audio textbooks, not quantifiable by "testing, not bought
with $$$. Can't think of any better name for it than-- good taste.
I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
still
so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
for
the leitmotif and have done.
Anyway non illegitimi carborundum.and fight the good
battle..
Ludovic Mirabel

In article .com,
wrote:

Jenn wrote:
Due to the several people displaying questionable reading ability
and/or simply lying about my statements (thereby showing that they have
a weak argument), I'll clairfy my position on the issue of "hearing".

I don't claim, nor have I ever claimed (as Chung noticed - I wonder
when Vlad will show up with his supposed evidence about this LOL) that
I have better hearing than anyone else. I don't. My hearing is just
above average for a person of my age, as shown by an audiometer test
from two years ago.

I claim that a person trained as I've been trained and who has the live
music experience that I have, will be a better judge of the sound of an
audio system AS IT COMPARES TO LIVE MUSIC than does the average person.
To deny that quanity matters in the judgement of how closely a system
matches the sound of acoustic is, it seems to me, silly. I hear this
music virtually every day, both from an up close perspective, and from
an audience seat. OF COURSE the amount of exposure matters. Who is
more qualified to judge the sound of a system vs. the sound of live
acoustic music: the person who has heard the live music twice, or the
person who has heard it 100 times?

In addition, my formal training and my daily expereince is, in part,
about listening to very small differences in frequency, articulation,
balance, and so forth. Are these matters not part of the audio world?

NONE of this comes as bragging, as some try, lamely, to claim. I don't
consider it to be bragging when a plumber knows how to fix my sink.
He/she is trained and more experienced in that area. I don't consider
it to be bragging when one can measure THD better than I can. Other
people are trained and experienced in that area, where I am not. And
yet, some try to claim that I'm "bragging" or "talking down to mere
mortals" when I mention my experience. Curious.

I only bring my experience and training up when someone tries to claim
that I don't know, for example, what a violin sounds like.

Thanks for allowing me to clarify.

I consider myself fortunate to have a real--life professional
musician grace these too often moronic pages.

I'm fortunate that the group is here (however, um, odd the group is!) so
that I might learn and express my views.

As far as I know
you're one of the very few to take interest.
I think Von Karajan took some interest But obviously not enough- look
what a mess DG made of the best of his music...
On the other hand... (Can't help being argumentative) most
musicians I met couldn't care less about hifi.

That's true. There are a few famous and highly placed professional
classical types who do care... MTT, Boyd Hood (trumpet, LA Phil), Stan
Drucker (clarinet, NY Phil), Wynton, Jim Boyk, others.

The symphony violinists
I met always wanted it louder "bacause I can't hear my violin"..
And can I indulge in the "debating trade" and say that I'd rather
listen
to Klemperer conducting stone- deaf than to the thinkers
like Sullivan, Chung, NYOB et al, perfect hearing and all,
all together or separately.
Not to bring Beethoven down
from the Olympus as a material witness that "good hearing" is not
all that this is about. Nor is money.Nor is pop acceptance,
How about something elusive,
not in audio textbooks, not quantifiable by "testing, not bought
with $$$. Can't think of any better name for it than-- good taste.
I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
still
so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
for
the leitmotif and have done.

Generally true.


Anyway non illegitimi carborundum.and fight the good
battle..
Ludovic Mirabel

Thanks.

Ludo said:

I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
still so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
for the leitmotif and have done.

I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can surely sound
pleasing.

"George M. Middius" cmndr [underscore] george [at] comcast
[dot] net wrote in message

Ludo said:

I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the
best hi fi is
still so far from live that one may just as well listen
to the mantel radio for the leitmotif and have done.

I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can
surely sound pleasing.

Archive this post and note the date and time. It's an audio-related post by
Middius!

George M. Middius wrote:
Ludo said:

I suppose that musicians feel (with reason) that the best hi fi is
still so far from live that one may just as well listen to the mantel radio
for the leitmotif and have done.

I dunno. A home system may not sound "real" but it can surely sound
pleasing.

I ascribed some ideas to *some* misicians. I
did not say
this is the way I felt.
Ludovic M.