Is there a device or software that i can use to measure the voltage passsing
between two points and record that somehow, over a time period of say, a month?
Cheaper would be better. Here's why I need such a thing.

The Calrec Sigma console I use at work is intermittently making a loud Digital
kind of Zapping noise, like when your Converters totally wack out for a second.
And if I touch the touch sensitive faders say a second later I get a strong
electric shock, which on next retouching is gone. This has also happened when
i have *already* had my hand sitting on one the faders, so the explanation of
"static electricity" - at least as we commonly think of it - does not make
sense. It also has happened in quite humid times of year, not just when the
air is dry as is typical for static.

The first time this happened my A2 was plugging in a hardline mic at the time.
We have mic direct outs from the Calrec feeding a PA MIxer on the Studio floor,
incorrectly patched into mic inputs. When I got the first shock I went down to
that PA Mixer and found Phantom power was engaged on some console channels, and
I assumed that as this was feeding multiple channels of 48V back up into the
output busses of the Calrec that this accounted for the shock - yeah I know,
they have diodes and blocking caps in there for protection, but it seemed to
happen at the same time. However I have since been shocked and heard the noise
bursts with the PA mixer totally shut off, this has happened about 12 times
since August.

The Studio D/Control facility is first class in terms of design, Chris Bauer
our former Director of Engineering is no slouch (and his Dad was an original
"Harmonicat"), and all is according to Calrec's specs for the mixer
installation (except for how the PA Board is interfaced, there the facility
Install guys ignored my warnings about how that shouild be done. Hey, XLR -
XLR!) Anyway everything is well tied to heavy copper buss bars tied to a star
ground buss bar, tied to the building. The Calrec's Control surface and Audio
rack have separate power supplies.

I would like to record the voltages passing between say, one of the Calrec's
faders and a ground point for a month and see it we get any spikes, and record
the time, duration and voltage of any events. I would like to record and
quantify this mystery.

I am concerned this could be a Console manufacturing defect or design problem
obviously, but one of the construction guys who physically built the room made
an interesting comment. He said "The room is built for Static electricity. When
we were building it we were getting strong shocks *from the building* and
called in electricians, and they said it was just static." Now there were once
defects in some of the Robo Cam pedestal that caused them to spit garbage into
the BSP panels they shared with our mic inputs throuigh the common grounds,
making our mics "pop", and I am wondering if it is possible that something
similar is happening? Although there are shocks involved here, so is there any
way that might make sense? Maybe there sometimes such a different potential
between the studio floor and the control room that there are current spikes
through the patchbay ties? Could bad lighting dimmers electrify our BSP panels
mometarily through the grounds, or if there was a short between a ground wire
and pin 2 on a mic connection would that allow a potential in somewhere it
should not go?

This is a hard one to nail down, especially for a guy who is mainly a mixing
engineer such as I, and it is such a transient event. Ideas anyone?
Thanks.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audio Guy / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

I think i saw a Fluke that has a tape read out. I'm not sure funtions
were available on that.
There is a test setup that is an external box that runs off a PC. I
forget what it's called. It will generate everything from bars to
squarewaves, and read like a scope into whatever computer. Might be a
bit excessive to track down an intermitant.

Does the Control surface of the Sigma 100 send a multi-pair of just
Coax back to the frame. We put in a Euphonix at Food Network and
because the frame was in the machine room we had to lift a pin in the
EDACs that take control from the surface back to the frame.

Your Circuit should all be on a major UPS, like most TV stations.
Make sure no-one has plugged into a technical ground outlet on that leg
with anything that shouldn't be in there. Definately check the
electrical system. ( what panel gets what circuit ; are the grounds
continuos )

WillStG wrote:

I would like to record the voltages passing between say, one of the Calrec's
faders and a ground point for a month and see it we get any spikes, and record
the time, duration and voltage of any events. I would like to record and
quantify this mystery.

Chart recorders are the old traditional way of doing this, but you will find
a lot of the power loggers will let you measure DC voltages as well over the
long term. The Fluke power loggers are probably rentable from some place
like Tucker that rents test equipment. Astro-Med makes some loggers that
pretend to be chart recorders with LCD displays.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The cheap way is to just use a DVM with peak hold, one with no auto shut
off.....
I have done this many times just hang it on the test points to capture the
peak voltage when the fault occurs. If that will not work there are many
instrumentation recorders with 0-5V or 0-20ma input which you can add
resistors to for the desired range. Have a look at http://www.transcat.com/
for available recorders or give their sales types a call....

Rgds:
Eric


"WillStG" wrote in message
...
Is there a device or software that i can use to measure the voltage
passsing
between two points and record that somehow, over a time period of say, a
month?
Cheaper would be better. Here's why I need such a thing.

The Calrec Sigma console I use at work is intermittently making a loud
Digital
kind of Zapping noise, like when your Converters totally wack out for a
second.
And if I touch the touch sensitive faders say a second later I get a
strong
electric shock, which on next retouching is gone. This has also happened
when
i have *already* had my hand sitting on one the faders, so the explanation
of
"static electricity" - at least as we commonly think of it - does not make
sense. It also has happened in quite humid times of year, not just when
the
air is dry as is typical for static.

The first time this happened my A2 was plugging in a hardline mic at the
time.
We have mic direct outs from the Calrec feeding a PA MIxer on the Studio
floor,
incorrectly patched into mic inputs. When I got the first shock I went
down to
that PA Mixer and found Phantom power was engaged on some console
channels, and
I assumed that as this was feeding multiple channels of 48V back up into
the
output busses of the Calrec that this accounted for the shock - yeah I
know,
they have diodes and blocking caps in there for protection, but it seemed
to
happen at the same time. However I have since been shocked and heard the
noise
bursts with the PA mixer totally shut off, this has happened about 12
times
since August.

The Studio D/Control facility is first class in terms of design, Chris
Bauer
our former Director of Engineering is no slouch (and his Dad was an
original
"Harmonicat"), and all is according to Calrec's specs for the mixer
installation (except for how the PA Board is interfaced, there the
facility
Install guys ignored my warnings about how that shouild be done. Hey,
XLR -
XLR!) Anyway everything is well tied to heavy copper buss bars tied to a
star
ground buss bar, tied to the building. The Calrec's Control surface and
Audio
rack have separate power supplies.

I would like to record the voltages passing between say, one of the
Calrec's
faders and a ground point for a month and see it we get any spikes, and
record
the time, duration and voltage of any events. I would like to record and
quantify this mystery.

I am concerned this could be a Console manufacturing defect or design
problem
obviously, but one of the construction guys who physically built the room
made
an interesting comment. He said "The room is built for Static electricity.
When
we were building it we were getting strong shocks *from the building* and
called in electricians, and they said it was just static." Now there were
once
defects in some of the Robo Cam pedestal that caused them to spit garbage
into
the BSP panels they shared with our mic inputs throuigh the common
grounds,
making our mics "pop", and I am wondering if it is possible that something
similar is happening? Although there are shocks involved here, so is
there any
way that might make sense? Maybe there sometimes such a different
potential
between the studio floor and the control room that there are current
spikes
through the patchbay ties? Could bad lighting dimmers electrify our BSP
panels
mometarily through the grounds, or if there was a short between a ground
wire
and pin 2 on a mic connection would that allow a potential in somewhere it
should not go?

This is a hard one to nail down, especially for a guy who is mainly a
mixing
engineer such as I, and it is such a transient event. Ideas anyone?
Thanks.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audio Guy / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Eric K. Weber wrote:
The cheap way is to just use a DVM with peak hold, one with no auto shut
off.....

Like the Fluke 12's I use for routine troubleshooting. They have a 100-hour min/max memory, so you can tell when the event(s) happened.

Thanks one and all.
They did put in an antistatic mat, but as this has happened even when I
had had my hand sitting on the fader for some time already I don't
expect that to solve the matter, although it might keep me from feeling
the current present.
I'll see if I can borrow a DMM from engineering, and check out Fluke's
devices.

Will Miho
NY Music and TV Audio Guy
Staff Audio / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the fine print taketh away..."
Tom Waits

"WillStG" wrote ...
Is there a device or software that i can use to measure the
voltage passsing between two points and record that somehow,
over a time period of say, a month? Cheaper would be better.
Here's why I need such a thing.

The Calrec Sigma console I use at work is intermittently
making a loud Digital kind of Zapping noise, like when your
Converters totally wack out for a second.

Several digital DMMs have logging features, even low-price
ones. However, note that if you are looking for short-duration
transient phenomenon, you might need a higher sampling-rate
than they provide to capture your transient.

Test equipment rental places will have several different kinds
of units specifically made to monitor various things and record
any anomalies. Most of them are designed for monitoring power
line issues.

The Studio D/Control facility is first class in terms of design,
Chris Bauer our former Director of Engineering is no slouch
(and his Dad was an original "Harmonicat"), and all is according
to Calrec's specs for the mixer installation (except for how the
PA Board is interfaced, there the facility Install guys ignored
my warnings about how that shouild be done. Hey, XLR -
XLR!) Anyway everything is well tied to heavy copper buss
bars tied to a star ground buss bar, tied to the building. The
Calrec's Control surface and Audio rack have separate power
supplies.

But remember that design and execution are two different things.
The very best design is of only academic interest in the absense
of appropriate execution. And top-notch electricians doing the
installation still make errors occasionally.


I would like to record the voltages passing between say,
one of the Calrec's faders and a ground point for a month
and see it we get any spikes, and record the time, duration
and voltage of any events. I would like to record and
quantify this mystery.

Are these two items supposed to be connected together already?
If not, why not? You might be better off measuring continuity
between them while you exercise connectors and wiring to see
if there is an intermittent.

I am concerned this could be a Console manufacturing
defect or design problem obviously, but one of the
construction guys who physically built the room made
an interesting comment. He said "The room is built for
Static electricity. When we were building it we were
getting strong shocks *from the building* and called in
electricians, and they said it was just static."

I have read about issues with metal-frame high-rise buildings
where different parts of the metal infrastructure weren't
exactly electrically bonded together as one would expect.
Even here in this newsgroup I think I remember someone
reporting that they abandoned their original location of a
studio because they could never get rid of the RFI and other
problems. But moving across the hall (or up a floor?) worked
out just fine. Who knows why these things happen? But who
has the time/resources to figure it out either?

Do you have carpet on the floors? You might want to consider carpet made
for computer machine rooms, which has conductive fibers for anti static
AATCC 134...
.....

Sounds like static with the metal part of the fader which the knob is
attached to arcing over to the wiper of the potentiometer......

Some static grounding issues in the console / fader design and possibly a
poor choice of flooring / seating material...

The BASF web site suggests 3500 Volts of static electricity is required to
feel the spark...... this would certainly overload the a/d converters if it
arced to the wiper of the fader.....

Rgds:
Eric

"WillStG" wrote in message
...
Is there a device or software that i can use to measure the voltage
passsing
between two points and record that somehow, over a time period of say, a
month?
Cheaper would be better. Here's why I need such a thing.

The Calrec Sigma console I use at work is intermittently making a loud
Digital
kind of Zapping noise, like when your Converters totally wack out for a
second.
And if I touch the touch sensitive faders say a second later I get a
strong
electric shock, which on next retouching is gone. This has also happened
when
i have *already* had my hand sitting on one the faders, so the explanation
of
"static electricity" - at least as we commonly think of it - does not make
sense. It also has happened in quite humid times of year, not just when
the
air is dry as is typical for static.

The first time this happened my A2 was plugging in a hardline mic at the
time.
We have mic direct outs from the Calrec feeding a PA MIxer on the Studio
floor,
incorrectly patched into mic inputs. When I got the first shock I went
down to
that PA Mixer and found Phantom power was engaged on some console
channels, and
I assumed that as this was feeding multiple channels of 48V back up into
the
output busses of the Calrec that this accounted for the shock - yeah I
know,
they have diodes and blocking caps in there for protection, but it seemed
to
happen at the same time. However I have since been shocked and heard the
noise
bursts with the PA mixer totally shut off, this has happened about 12
times
since August.

The Studio D/Control facility is first class in terms of design, Chris
Bauer
our former Director of Engineering is no slouch (and his Dad was an
original
"Harmonicat"), and all is according to Calrec's specs for the mixer
installation (except for how the PA Board is interfaced, there the
facility
Install guys ignored my warnings about how that shouild be done. Hey,
XLR -
XLR!) Anyway everything is well tied to heavy copper buss bars tied to a
star
ground buss bar, tied to the building. The Calrec's Control surface and
Audio
rack have separate power supplies.

I would like to record the voltages passing between say, one of the
Calrec's
faders and a ground point for a month and see it we get any spikes, and
record
the time, duration and voltage of any events. I would like to record and
quantify this mystery.

I am concerned this could be a Console manufacturing defect or design
problem
obviously, but one of the construction guys who physically built the room
made
an interesting comment. He said "The room is built for Static electricity.
When
we were building it we were getting strong shocks *from the building* and
called in electricians, and they said it was just static." Now there were
once
defects in some of the Robo Cam pedestal that caused them to spit garbage
into
the BSP panels they shared with our mic inputs throuigh the common
grounds,
making our mics "pop", and I am wondering if it is possible that something
similar is happening? Although there are shocks involved here, so is
there any
way that might make sense? Maybe there sometimes such a different
potential
between the studio floor and the control room that there are current
spikes
through the patchbay ties? Could bad lighting dimmers electrify our BSP
panels
mometarily through the grounds, or if there was a short between a ground
wire
and pin 2 on a mic connection would that allow a potential in somewhere it
should not go?

This is a hard one to nail down, especially for a guy who is mainly a
mixing
engineer such as I, and it is such a transient event. Ideas anyone?
Thanks.

Will Miho
NY Music & TV Audio Guy
Audio Guy / Fox News
"The large print giveth and the small print taketh away..." Tom Waits

Eric K. Weber wrote:
Do you have carpet on the floors? You might want to consider carpet made
for computer machine rooms, which has conductive fibers for anti static
AATCC 134...

Non-static floormatting is also worth checking out, and as a temporary
measure anti-static sprays will help.
--scott


--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."