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#1
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New Use for Duct Tape
I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#2
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#4
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I'm a big fan. I have this one syndicated radio PT gig I do on Saturdays where
"Car Talk" on NPR perfectly coincides with my ride to the studio. I usually get out of my car grinning from ear to ear in a great mood. Instead of "Click & Clack", how about "Crackle & Buzz". Maybe we could draft Rivers and Dorsey? Audio geeks and gearsluts could call in with their questions and rants. Radio is getting more segmented these days... Kevin M. Kelly "There needs to be a 12-step program for us gearheads" |
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#5
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. OK, that part's pretty smart. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. But that part's just plain stupid. So I guess resourcefulness & being a candidate for the Darwin Awards aren't mutually exclusive, after all LOL! -- Neil Henderson Saqqara Records http://www.saqqararecords.com |
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#6
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message
news:znr1094299860k@trad I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. The good news is that this work-around might even work for a while. Ball joints are usually installed in such a way that only an odd combination of loads and orientation will pull them apart. If you lose the bet, simply putting them back together can be a viable short term fix. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's nuts, but possible. He just better watch out for potholes and steep driveways, parking lot entrances and the like. IOW, he's betting on a sure loser in the long term. |
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#7
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I hear that it removes warts.
John A. Chiara SOS Recording Studio Live Sound Inc. Albany, NY www.sosrecording.net 518-449-1637 |
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#8
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"Blind Joni" wrote in message
I hear that it removes warts. IME, only if they were ready to fall off, anyway. I hear that it holds warts to walls, pretty well. |
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#9
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"Blind Joni" wrote in message
I hear that it removes warts. IME, only if they were ready to fall off, anyway. I hear that it holds warts to walls, pretty well. |
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#10
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That's nuts, but possible. He just better watch out for potholes and steep
driveways, parking lot entrances and the like. IOW, he's betting on a sure loser in the long term. That was the answer the Car Guys gave him. Whe the caller admitted to being an engineer, they guffawed their trademark seal-with-croup laughs and admitted only an engineer would be that stupid. Being MIT grads themselves I guess they'd know. Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
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#11
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"EganMedia" wrote in message
That's nuts, but possible. He just better watch out for potholes and steep driveways, parking lot entrances and the like. IOW, he's betting on a sure loser in the long term. That was the answer the Car Guys gave him. Gosh, we must all have had some real-world experiences with ball joints! Whoda thunk? When the caller admitted to being an engineer, they guffawed their trademark seal-with-croup laughs and admitted only an engineer would be that stupid. For a suitiable fee I'll provide you with an extensive list of the names of so-called professional automotive engineers who can't be trusted to change the sparkplug on a lawn mower. ;-) Being MIT grads themselves I guess they'd know. Well, there are MIT grads and there are MIT grads. Sounds like the Car Talk boys are the kind that know which end of a screwdriver is the handle and which is the end that actually turns screws. |
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#12
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"EganMedia" wrote in message
That's nuts, but possible. He just better watch out for potholes and steep driveways, parking lot entrances and the like. IOW, he's betting on a sure loser in the long term. That was the answer the Car Guys gave him. Gosh, we must all have had some real-world experiences with ball joints! Whoda thunk? When the caller admitted to being an engineer, they guffawed their trademark seal-with-croup laughs and admitted only an engineer would be that stupid. For a suitiable fee I'll provide you with an extensive list of the names of so-called professional automotive engineers who can't be trusted to change the sparkplug on a lawn mower. ;-) Being MIT grads themselves I guess they'd know. Well, there are MIT grads and there are MIT grads. Sounds like the Car Talk boys are the kind that know which end of a screwdriver is the handle and which is the end that actually turns screws. |
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#13
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That's nuts, but possible. He just better watch out for potholes and steep
driveways, parking lot entrances and the like. IOW, he's betting on a sure loser in the long term. That was the answer the Car Guys gave him. Whe the caller admitted to being an engineer, they guffawed their trademark seal-with-croup laughs and admitted only an engineer would be that stupid. Being MIT grads themselves I guess they'd know. Joe Egan EMP Colchester, VT www.eganmedia.com |
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#14
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I am "wearing" a pocket made of duct tape and a shoe sole made of duct
tape..... Fuct without the duct! "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#15
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I use duct tape to tape up the holes in the pockets of my shop coat at work.
As does everyone else. They are too cheap to buy us new ones. Bob "Ted Lachance" wrote in message news:rjn_c.102022$9d6.97860@attbi_s54... I am "wearing" a pocket made of duct tape and a shoe sole made of duct tape..... Fuct without the duct! "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#16
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I use duct tape to tape up the holes in the pockets of my shop coat at work.
As does everyone else. They are too cheap to buy us new ones. Bob "Ted Lachance" wrote in message news:rjn_c.102022$9d6.97860@attbi_s54... I am "wearing" a pocket made of duct tape and a shoe sole made of duct tape..... Fuct without the duct! "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. -- I'm really Mike Rivers ) However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over, lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo |
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#17
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. |
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#18
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Robert Morein wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3 weeks with a major component taped together? I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome. |
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#19
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#20
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Pete Dimsman wrote:
Robert Morein wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3 weeks with a major component taped together? I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome. Talking of loaners..... I was once given one of these http://www.anglia-models.co.uk/saloon.htm Ok - it was a *long* time back. Top speed of about 60mph, which was problematic on the busy M25 motorway that was my run into/back from work then.. It really should have been in a museum. Graham |
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#21
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#23
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Pete Dimsman wrote:
Robert Morein wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3 weeks with a major component taped together? I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome. Talking of loaners..... I was once given one of these http://www.anglia-models.co.uk/saloon.htm Ok - it was a *long* time back. Top speed of about 60mph, which was problematic on the busy M25 motorway that was my run into/back from work then.. It really should have been in a museum. Graham |
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#24
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Lines: 52
Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: X-Abuse-Info: Please forward a copy of all headers for proper handling X-Trace: ofjmidbaofeaohdodbdpiflmbcekedmfhojhikkbagflhcbocn oapolkfhoegldaalcpdfdfhdacgfjafpaihjjpkhgbclackmjh khgeliomjaoigompdmeinpcoddehfkkfjfgebpfppgpfoloklm oeejkgfcme NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:39:19 EDT Organization: BellSouth Internet Group Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:39:19 GMT Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1104594 On 2004-09-05 said: Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3 weeks with a major component taped together? I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome. Been there done that. My wife and I were heading back for Iowa after taking her youngest daughter and family back to the Memphis Tn area. On highway 61 about canton Mo. we stopped at a rest area to get a couple of hours of sleep then headed on. I was asleep on the back seat of our van. WE had a front tire on the right side that we were sure was going to go about any time. I awoke to find us crashing down the road, thinking that when that tire blew the wheel split and we were really in deep doo doo. COme to find out when we brought it to a stop safely on the side of the road that the wheel had come off. Btw the tire was still good. What saved us was the fact that the wife didn't touch the brakes. Had she I'm sure we would have flipped over. The fun part was getting the now disabled vehicle out of there. WE were on a blind curve on a hill. I don't carry a cell phone, but had my trusty vhf ham rig. A local ham radio repeater had all sorts of bells and whistles so I figured it had automatic 911 interconnect if I just punched those digits. I was right and was soon connected with a 911 operator in Adams COunty Illinois. AFter she figured out what was going on and got straight on all that she relayed my information to MIssouri state patrol who sent us a tow truck. Richard Webb, Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La. REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email -- "No job is so small that it does not require more tools than you can carry in one hand." ---Mike "Rivers |
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#25
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Robert Morein wrote: "Mike Rivers" wrote in message sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. I agree, how stupid can one be. Driving for 3 weeks with a major component taped together? I was once given a beat up loaner car to use while my car was in a repair shop. Not 5 minutes into my drive one of the front wheels came off! Well, I was going less than 30 mph but it was still a very frightening (and jarring) experience. Had I been traveling down a highway at higher speeds, I can only imagine the outcome. |
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#26
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Well then, here's another use for "The Tape".
Duct tape for embalming! "Slap 'em, Wrap'em and say good-bye" Tom "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. |
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#27
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Well then, here's another use for "The Tape".
Duct tape for embalming! "Slap 'em, Wrap'em and say good-bye" Tom "Robert Morein" wrote in message ... "Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. |
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#28
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"Mike Rivers" wrote in message news:znr1094299860k@trad... I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. That's an invitation to an early death. Loss of a wheel, which this is very close to, has been shown to inevitably result in complete loss of control of the vehicle and a serious accident. |
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#29
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Mike Rivers wrote:
I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. Is it the fwd ( typically ) transmission part you're referring to ? Graham |
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#30
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
Mike Rivers wrote: I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. In the US we call the rotating coupling between the front suspension lower control arm and the shock strut (McPherson type suspension) a ball joint. We call the rotating couplings between the hub carrier and the upper and lower main control arms (upper and lower control arm type suspension) ball joint(s). We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. We call CV joints, CV joints. |
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#31
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Arny Krueger wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message Mike Rivers wrote: I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. In the US we call the rotating coupling between the front suspension lower control arm and the shock strut (McPherson type suspension) a ball joint. We call the rotating couplings between the hub carrier and the upper and lower main control arms (upper and lower control arm type suspension) ball joint(s). I hadn't imagined that the OP could have been referring to them. We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. We call CV joints, CV joints. K. Graham |
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#32
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: "Pooh Bear" wrote in message Mike Rivers wrote: I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. In the US we call the rotating coupling between the front suspension lower control arm and the shock strut (McPherson type suspension) a ball joint. We call the rotating couplings between the hub carrier and the upper and lower main control arms (upper and lower control arm type suspension) ball joint(s). I hadn't imagined that the OP could have been referring to them. I think they fit the description, the best. We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear axle. |
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#33
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Arny Krueger wrote: "Pooh Bear" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear axle. Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll bar. Graham |
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#34
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Arny Krueger wrote: "Pooh Bear" wrote in message Arny Krueger wrote: We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear axle. Either I haven't seen one of those or it's what I would know as an anti-roll bar. Graham |
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#35
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
Arny Krueger wrote: "Pooh Bear" wrote in message Mike Rivers wrote: I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. In the US we call the rotating coupling between the front suspension lower control arm and the shock strut (McPherson type suspension) a ball joint. We call the rotating couplings between the hub carrier and the upper and lower main control arms (upper and lower control arm type suspension) ball joint(s). I hadn't imagined that the OP could have been referring to them. I think they fit the description, the best. We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. In US automotive parlance, a track rod or a track bar, is a specific kind of link between a solid rear axle and the body. It runs parallel to the rear axle. |
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#36
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Arny Krueger wrote:
"Pooh Bear" wrote in message Mike Rivers wrote: I was listening to NPR's Car Talk program while reading the newsgroup messages this morning. A caller had a ball joint break when he was driving, and he didn't want to pay for a tow, so he put the pieces back in position, wrapped it in duct tape (he had a roll in the trunk because it was an old car and he'd need the duct tape for something, sometime) and drove it home. He said he'd been driving it that way for about three weeks. It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. In the US we call the rotating coupling between the front suspension lower control arm and the shock strut (McPherson type suspension) a ball joint. We call the rotating couplings between the hub carrier and the upper and lower main control arms (upper and lower control arm type suspension) ball joint(s). I hadn't imagined that the OP could have been referring to them. We call steering link ends, tie rod ends. Track rod ends here. We call CV joints, CV joints. K. Graham |
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#37
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#38
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Mike Rivers wrote:
In article writes: It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. This was about the front end suspension, not the power transmission joint. Duh ! Silly me - I forgot about them. I've had to repace a couple. Not easy - spring compressors and all. I'm *really* surprised at one of *those* coming apart. Hadn't crossed my mind. Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much over gravity either ! Graham |
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#39
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"Pooh Bear" wrote in message
Mike Rivers wrote: In article writes: It just occurred to me that I've been reading this thread for a while and from context assumed you mean what we in the UK would call a CV - constant velocity ( transmission ) joint. A ball joint would typically be used as a steering link over here. This was about the front end suspension, not the power transmission joint. Duh ! Silly me - I forgot about them. I've had to repace a couple. Not easy - spring compressors and all. Yeah, been there done that, too. I'm *really* surprised at one of *those* coming apart. Happened to me with a 1985 Pontiac 6000. It had about 140,000 miles on it. I see cars off the road with this problem not infrequently. Often there's a big chuckhole in the freeway nearby. Hadn't crossed my mind. Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much over gravity either ! There you go. |
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#40
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Lines: 30
Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: X-Abuse-Info: Please forward a copy of all headers for proper handling X-Trace: ofjmidbaofeaohdodbdpiflmbcekedmfhojhikkbagflhcbocn oapolkfhoegldaejgjiijhoejndpjjfpaihjjpkhgbclackmjh khgeliomjaoigompdmeinpcoddehfkkfjfgebpfppgpfejkeee gjeekggmck NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 20:39:17 EDT Organization: BellSouth Internet Group Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 00:39:17 GMT Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com rec.audio.pro:1104593 On 2004-09-05 said: Can't see how Gaffer Tape ( UK speak ) would help much over gravity either ! There you go. Btw folks, it isn't just called Gaffer tape in the UK. Gaffer tape and duct tape are not synonymous. Gaffer tape is muc easier to work with for the jobs us audio folks have seen duct tape used for such as taping down cables etc. NO sticky gummy residue left behind for one thing. HOwever, leaving a joint duct taped for three weeks which is that important to the safety of your vehicle is irresponsible to say the least. THis fool ought to lose driving priveleges just because he's an idiot. MOre like a menace to others. Richard Webb, Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La. REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email -- A good captain is one who is hoisting his first drink in a bar when the storm hits. |
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