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#1
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How often do you do a show with no soundcheck? Exception or rule?
Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver.
They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Unfortunatly I'm not experienced enough to do a sound-check without hearing my system and our current sound-person is the drummer's girlfriend who, bless her heart, is working her tail off but is way to inexperienced to mix from scratch. As a result we fought most of the night with feedback and generally bad sound. The more she tried to fix things the worse things got. Between sets my brother and I troubleshot and fixed some things. One thing I found was that I didn't have a good enough signal coming out of the mains eq so she had to crank channel gain knobs to get enough volume, which, of course contributed to feedback problems and distortion/clipping. This is an issue that I would likely have noticed and fixed when I did a real soundcheck. The rational/professional side of me thinks that if a club isn't professional enough to give us the opportunity to make our product sound as good as it can then I just won't play there. At risk here is speakers that can be blown, vocal cords that can be blown, a reputation that can be blown... This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. Will this kind of approach/limitation/demand limit the clubs we can play in? Is this that common? Thanks to all, Shawn |
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#2
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#3
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Snip
Basics of no soundcheck prefade your inputs with the amps off get all mics at about the same level on the vu meters all eq to flat monitor mixes wash all vocals in each wedge with the mic infront of a wedge a little louder anything that is far across stage mix a little in drums get kick , keys , guitars and a modest level of vocals start with your master fader at about -20 your monitor sends about where experiance tell you they should be(for me aux master about 3/4 open no channel aux over 1/2 way) explain to the band no to whine about monitors until break have your focus on the vocal mics and GO otherwise at the start time go through your sound check with the band doing some sort of jammy whatever song thank the audience for patience during the sound check and GO George Now that's what I call a helpful reply!! Thank you. I will enter your thoughts into my notes and memorize them. They shall become my mantra!! You are my hero! Shawn |
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#4
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#7
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#8
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On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:37 +0000, Shawn wrote:
Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver. They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Unfortunatly I'm not experienced enough to do a sound-check without hearing my system and our current sound-person is the drummer's girlfriend who, bless her heart, is working her tail off but is way to inexperienced to mix from scratch. As a result we fought most of the night with feedback and generally bad sound. [...snip] This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. If you're so professional, did you ever think of hiring a professional sound crew? Any competetent FOH guy shuld be able to set the basics by sight, and pull the basic mix by half way through the first verse. And have the whole mix ok by the end of the first song. If the band is professional too, you could consider giving him an easy time of it by starting out with, say, 4 bars of bass and drums, then have the gtr come in, etc - don't try to start him off with 5 harmonies, 3 brass 2 keys 2 gtrs etc all in the intro to your first number... And who is your manager? Is he another "professional" too - like your drummer's girlfriend? Did he advance the show? Did he even mention load-in/sound-check times with the venue when booking the gig? [come to think of it, how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] And did you say "most of the night"? You're lucky the venue management didn't kick you off the stage after the first few songs. I'm betting "professional" isn't one of the first words that comes to their minds when remembering your performance that night. ps. Denver is a nice place - I was there in '98. What's the name of this "very swanky" club - is it new? |
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#9
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how many "professional" drummers do you know who
have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] hah. that's funny. |
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#11
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Is her name YOKO!
"Mondoslug1" wrote in message ... how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] hah. that's funny. |
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#12
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Wow Merlin, read your ****ty, nah-nah, unhelpful reply and learn how to
communicate. Why be such a dick to the guy? Troll city. No doubt you don't do that face to face. What an angry man. "Merlin Zener" wrote in message news  On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:37 +0000, Shawn wrote: Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver. They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Unfortunatly I'm not experienced enough to do a sound-check without hearing my system and our current sound-person is the drummer's girlfriend who, bless her heart, is working her tail off but is way to inexperienced to mix from scratch. As a result we fought most of the night with feedback and generally bad sound. [...snip] This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. If you're so professional, did you ever think of hiring a professional sound crew? Any competetent FOH guy shuld be able to set the basics by sight, and pull the basic mix by half way through the first verse. And have the whole mix ok by the end of the first song. If the band is professional too, you could consider giving him an easy time of it by starting out with, say, 4 bars of bass and drums, then have the gtr come in, etc - don't try to start him off with 5 harmonies, 3 brass 2 keys 2 gtrs etc all in the intro to your first number... And who is your manager? Is he another "professional" too - like your drummer's girlfriend? Did he advance the show? Did he even mention load-in/sound-check times with the venue when booking the gig? [come to think of it, how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] And did you say "most of the night"? You're lucky the venue management didn't kick you off the stage after the first few songs. I'm betting "professional" isn't one of the first words that comes to their minds when remembering your performance that night. ps. Denver is a nice place - I was there in '98. What's the name of this "very swanky" club - is it new? |
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#13
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he did sound angry. Glad he's not in my band.
"sean" wrote in message t... Wow Merlin, read your ****ty, nah-nah, unhelpful reply and learn how to communicate. Why be such a dick to the guy? Troll city. No doubt you don't do that face to face. What an angry man. "Merlin Zener" wrote in message news On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:37 +0000, Shawn wrote: Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver. They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Unfortunatly I'm not experienced enough to do a sound-check without hearing my system and our current sound-person is the drummer's girlfriend who, bless her heart, is working her tail off but is way to inexperienced to mix from scratch. As a result we fought most of the night with feedback and generally bad sound. [...snip] This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. If you're so professional, did you ever think of hiring a professional sound crew? Any competetent FOH guy shuld be able to set the basics by sight, and pull the basic mix by half way through the first verse. And have the whole mix ok by the end of the first song. If the band is professional too, you could consider giving him an easy time of it by starting out with, say, 4 bars of bass and drums, then have the gtr come in, etc - don't try to start him off with 5 harmonies, 3 brass 2 keys 2 gtrs etc all in the intro to your first number... And who is your manager? Is he another "professional" too - like your drummer's girlfriend? Did he advance the show? Did he even mention load-in/sound-check times with the venue when booking the gig? [come to think of it, how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] And did you say "most of the night"? You're lucky the venue management didn't kick you off the stage after the first few songs. I'm betting "professional" isn't one of the first words that comes to their minds when remembering your performance that night. ps. Denver is a nice place - I was there in '98. What's the name of this "very swanky" club - is it new? |
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#14
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[come to think of it, how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] What I think we have here is an ugly, frustrated drummer who can't get a girlfriend. That is why he never sees the drummer's girlfriend at the gig! Anyone else ever see the squeeze from the last gig at the current show? This guy has never seen this. So, we know that a one nighter would be his longest relationship. I think he has a right to be angry.... but not at us! -Sax |
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#15
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"Saxology" wrote in message news What I think we have here is an ugly, frustrated drummer who can't get a girlfriend. That is why he never sees the drummer's girlfriend at the gig! Anyone else ever see the squeeze from the last gig at the current show? This guy has never seen this. So, we know that a one nighter would be his longest relationship. I think he has a right to be angry.... but not at us! -Sax Old joke; What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend? Homeless. g Joe L |
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#16
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"Saxology" wrote in message news What I think we have here is an ugly, frustrated drummer who can't get a girlfriend. That is why he never sees the drummer's girlfriend at the gig! Anyone else ever see the squeeze from the last gig at the current show? This guy has never seen this. So, we know that a one nighter would be his longest relationship. I think he has a right to be angry.... but not at us! -Sax Old joke; What do you call a drummer without a girlfriend? Homeless. g Joe L |
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#17
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If you're so professional, did you ever think of hiring a professional
sound crew? Yeah, and we thought that paying them our entire paycheck, and probably then some, was not the right approach. Are you implying that if we don't have a professional sound "crew" we aren't professional musicians or a professional band? If you are, then you'd be wrong. I may not have a ton of experience with setting up and running sound in every situation possible, but I am a professional musician. We were there on time and, to my amazement, found out that a club that has live music on a regular basis wouldn't allow a sound-check. Any competetent FOH guy shuld be able to set the basics by sight, and pull the basic mix by half way through the first verse. And have the whole mix ok by the end of the first song. And that is our problem. We are probably competent in setting up our rig and getting it to sound good, but only with a realistic sound check. Our current sound-person, yes the drummer's girlfriend who is busting her tail to help us out, is not yet experienced enough to mix quickly from scratch. Likely we would have only needed 30 minutes with me sitting at the board and mixing/eqing individual instruments and then the night would have been peachy-keen; but noooooooooo! If the band is professional too, you could consider giving him an easy time of it by starting out with, say, 4 bars of bass and drums, then have the gtr come in, etc - don't try to start him off with 5 harmonies, 3 brass 2 keys 2 gtrs etc all in the intro to your first number... A very good idea. And who is your manager? Is he another "professional" too - like your drummer's girlfriend? Did he advance the show? Did he even mention load-in/sound-check times with the venue when booking the gig? Nope. The "manager" is the other guitarist's wife who has some sales experience and has offered her time, and is also busting her ass. Alas, we are a band of experienced musicians who regularly (read M-F) work day jobs and can use all the help we can get. This particular gig was aquired by her efforts in hounding a local agent who asked us to fill in when he had a cancelation. We had about 24 hours notice and don't have the experience to anticipate all eventualities; like sound-check, load out time... [come to think of it, how many "professional" drummers do you know who have their girlfriends come to the gig, let alone mess with the sound desk?] Again she offered her time and we, at present, don't have anyone to sit and mix the sound. You keep tossing this word "professional" around as like if we don't adhere to your standards we aren't professional. Perhaps you should use the word seasoned or experienced instead. We are all seasoned players who have played in bands for years but have not had the opportunity or the need to run the sound ourselves. Now it's a must and we are learning how and are learning that it's way more difficult than we expected. In our defense we have yet to play a gig where we got a good sound-check. I think that will solve most, if not all, of our problems. So, I must say that I take offense at the inference that we are unprofessional just because we don't know everything that you do, or that you think we should! And did you say "most of the night"? You're lucky the venue management didn't kick you off the stage after the first few songs. I'm betting "professional" isn't one of the first words that comes to their minds when remembering your performance that night. Perhaps that shows you just how much of a "professional" band we are! We were able to impress the audience (dance floor full the entire night) and the management with something other than optimum sound quality. So put that in your "professional" pipe and smoke it! ps. Denver is a nice place - I was there in '98. What's the name of this "very swanky" club - is it new? Damn right it is! Don't know how new the club is. It is called the "cool river cafe" and it was chock full of yuppy types dressed in their suits with their Cadilac Escalades and Beamers out in the parking lot parked by the valet. Fits the description of "swanky" in my book. Thanks for your suggestions; I think. Shawn |
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#18
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Shawn wrote:
And that is our problem. We are probably competent in setting up our rig and getting it to sound good, but only with a realistic sound check. Our current sound-person, yes the drummer's girlfriend who is busting her tail to help us out, is not yet experienced enough to mix quickly from scratch. Likely we would have only needed 30 minutes with me sitting at the board and mixing/eqing individual instruments and then the night would have been peachy-keen; but noooooooooo! Well, what instrument do you play? You're not the drummer, so perhaps if a situation like this presents itself, how about this plan: do as much as you can (rough mix, EQ for instruments, etc.) in advance of the show with headphones or whatever. Then, have everyone in the band except you start the show by playing an instrumental. Fix everything you can during the first song (which should be most of it), and then hand things off to the drummer's girlfriend and go up and join the rest of the band. Of course, this approach won't work as well if you're the lead singer or the bass player... Or make it standard procedure when booking a gig to get them to agree to a soundcheck. If they won't, then hire a sound guy for just that one gig. - Logan |
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#19
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Logan Shaw wrote:
Well, what instrument do you play? You're not the drummer, so perhaps if a situation like this presents itself, how about this plan: do as much as you can (rough mix, EQ for instruments, etc.) in advance of the show with headphones or whatever. Then, have everyone in the band except you start the show by playing an instrumental. Fix everything you can during the first song (which should be most of it), and then hand things off to the drummer's girlfriend and go up and join the rest of the band. Of course, this approach won't work as well if you're the lead singer or the bass player... Now there's some good advise. |
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#20
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Shawn wrote:
If you're so professional, did you ever think of hiring a professional sound crew? Yeah, and we thought that paying them our entire paycheck, and probably then some, was not the right approach. Are you implying that if we don't have a professional sound "crew" we aren't professional musicians or a professional band? If you are, then you'd be wrong. Merlin seems to have a lot of pent up anger. He should probably seek some "Professional" help to sort it all out. Meanwhile, just ignore anything he says that sound like an insult. The sad fact is these days, most club gigs don't pay the whole band as much as a "Professional" sound man would charge. One alternative is to make the soundguy a "member" of your band. You're splitting out one more share, but at least you're not paying out more than you're making. I may not have a ton of experience with setting up and running sound in every situation possible, but I am a professional musician. We were there on time and, to my amazement, found out that a club that has live music on a regular basis wouldn't allow a sound-check. OK, wait a minute. You seem to like the word "Experience" almost as much as Merlin likes "Professional". No insult intended (just making sure we're all on the same page), but just how much experience do you (and the band) have playing out in clubs? This kind of thing happens sometimes (and sometimes the club owner refuses to pay you, and sometimes the acoustics suck, and sometimes the house electrical system has serious problems). These are things you have to deal with. You can insist on a written contract; you can make you tech rider part of that contract, and you can play hardball on that contract IF you're willing to walk away from some gigs in the process. --snip some of Merlin's vitriolic drivel-- And that is our problem. We are probably competent in setting up our rig and getting it to sound good, but only with a realistic sound check. Our current sound-person, yes the drummer's girlfriend who is busting her tail to help us out, is not yet experienced enough to mix quickly from scratch. Likely we would have only needed 30 minutes with me sitting at the board and mixing/eqing individual instruments and then the night would have been peachy-keen; but noooooooooo! First, work on removing the word "Likely" from that last sentence. Then work on getting it down to 15 minutes. Then... Be creative. Do you always practice at the same place? If so, start rehearsing at each member's house on a rotating basis. Let the soundchick get a mix at each place so she HAS A CHANCE to get good at it. If possible, record all rehearsals (single mic mono at the mix position) for a sanity check. If recording's not possible, the band members can take turns laying out & listening at the mix position. Listen to the tapes together & make constructive suggestions to help her out. Whether you're paying her a split or not, you should consider her a member of your band. If your lead singer quit, would you play a critical gig with a new singer before he/she was well rehearsed & comfortable with your show? --snip some more of Merlin's drivel and Shawn's responses-- You keep tossing this word "professional" around as like if we don't adhere to your standards we aren't professional. Perhaps you should use the word seasoned or experienced instead. We are all seasoned players who have played in bands for years but have not had the opportunity or the need to run the sound ourselves. Now it's a must and we are learning how and are learning that it's way more difficult than we expected. I'm having a hard time understanding how you managed to play in bands for years without ever having to be responsible for your own sound. Granted, it's been a long time since I started out, but I can't count the times I've mixed from stage rather than trust a less than comptent "house engineer", or because no house engineer was asvailable. In our defense we have yet to play a gig where we got a good sound-check. I think that will solve most, if not all, of our problems. Maybe, but I wouldn't count on it. Perhaps that shows you just how much of a "professional" band we are! We were able to impress the audience (dance floor full the entire night) and the management with something other than optimum sound quality. Kinda cool the way that works, huh? Bands have to compete with DJs for gigs because club owners only look at the bottom line. But audiences seem to amost always dig a live band more, even if the sound sucks or the band has an off night. Maybe if they'd get their asses off the dance floor & buy more beer, the club owners would come around. |
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#21
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Snip
The sad fact is these days, most club gigs don't pay the whole band as much as a "Professional" sound man would charge. One alternative is to make the soundguy a "member" of your band. You're splitting out one more share, but at least you're not paying out more than you're making. Yeah, we're thinking about that. OK, wait a minute. You seem to like the word "Experience" almost as much as Merlin likes "Professional". No insult intended (just making sure we're all on the same page), but just how much experience do you (and the band) have playing out in clubs? Not a hell of a lot. I've always had a knack of joining bands that were on the verge of breaking up. I'd join, learn the tunes, play a few gigs and then that would be it. I've had a medium sized PA for about 15 years now and it hasn't seen a lot of work. Somewhere in that time I got burned out on the personalities involved in being in a band and took a break for a couple of years. Got back into it hot and heavy 2 years ago but managed to join a band that played mostly clubs with a built in pa and sound guy. So, I have a lot of playing experience, but not a lot of gigging experience; relatively speaking. I'm having a hard time understanding how you managed to play in bands for years without ever having to be responsible for your own sound. Granted, it's been a long time since I started out, but I can't count the times I've mixed from stage rather than trust a less than comptent "house engineer", or because no house engineer was asvailable. Please read the above explanation. Thanks for all your thoughs. Shawn |
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#22
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#23
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And lastly, you might be a pro muscician, but that does not mean you are
capable of handling PA. I agree. I'm busting my ass to learn it. I'm improving each time. In fact the given you are fiddling with it yourself means you are not as much a pro as you think you are IMO. I disagree. No we're not perfect and we have a lot of work to do getting to know our pa as well as our own individual instruments but we played that gig Friday night for $500.00 for the band, performed well enough that the agent was impressed and booked us for other gigs (regardless of sound issues), we had the dance floor and the room we were in full the entire night... All this with 2 out of 4 sets having no stage monitors to speak of. Then we turned around and played another club the next night using partially our pa and partially their pa with their soundman and tore that damn place down!!! We're tight as hell, play well together, are always on time and sober, play music people want to dance to, we have fun and so does our audience; and we get paid. Sounds pretty professional to me; unless I'm missing something. Just sticking up for myself. Thanks again for your help. Shawn |
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#24
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The price your band gets paid for a full night of music is WHAT I CHARGE FOR
4 HOUR OF MIXING TIME, yet alone setup, soundcheck and loadout. Barney Kable "Shawn" wrote in message om... And lastly, you might be a pro muscician, but that does not mean you are capable of handling PA. I agree. I'm busting my ass to learn it. I'm improving each time. In fact the given you are fiddling with it yourself means you are not as much a pro as you think you are IMO. I disagree. No we're not perfect and we have a lot of work to do getting to know our pa as well as our own individual instruments but we played that gig Friday night for $500.00 for the band, performed well enough that the agent was impressed and booked us for other gigs (regardless of sound issues), we had the dance floor and the room we were in full the entire night... All this with 2 out of 4 sets having no stage monitors to speak of. Then we turned around and played another club the next night using partially our pa and partially their pa with their soundman and tore that damn place down!!! We're tight as hell, play well together, are always on time and sober, play music people want to dance to, we have fun and so does our audience; and we get paid. Sounds pretty professional to me; unless I'm missing something. Just sticking up for myself. Thanks again for your help. Shawn |
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#25
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"Shawn" wrote in message
om... I disagree. No we're not perfect and we have a lot of work to do getting to know our pa as well as our own individual instruments but we played that gig Friday night for $500.00 for the band, performed well enough that the agent was impressed and booked us for other gigs (regardless of sound issues), we had the dance floor and the room we were in full the entire night... You were robbed, the Cool River here in Dallas pays $1500 for a 4 hour gig, and we're far from the highest paid band in the rotation (we're not even a horn band). However, we do play $500 gigs too, and we carry our own PA to them. At $500, after 10% to the band fund and taxes, 10% to the manager (plus 10% to an agent if one booked the gig), that's only about $60 per person (there are 6 of us), and that's hardly enough to cover gas, my bar tab, and Whataburger on the way home. You need a manager (even if it's an unpaid friend or band member) who can spend some time checking out what other bands make in these venues and get you fairly compensated. Many musicians say they'll never use a manager or agents because they don't want someone taking part of their money, but do the math. Right now you're making $500 total. With a manager with a bit of business sense you could be playing the very same gig for double or more than what you are making now, so even after the manager and agent take their cut, you would still be getting more money per band member than you are now. As long as your cut goes up, do you really care how much an agent or manager are taking off the top? We both hired a manager and started using agents, and our pay has steadily increased and our venues have gotten steadily better and better. In the past few months we've opened for several has-been bands (The Georgia Satallites last month) for good sized crowds and significantly better pay than the bars we were playing this time last year. The Cool River here is also what I would call "swanky", and we don't get booked there regularly because they're usually looking for 70's disco, which we don't do. They draw a high-class crowd with lots of money to spend, and can afford to pay bands well. If you can book in those venues your pay should reflect it. Find someone you trust to do their homework and not rob you blind, and pay him a cut to do the legwork. ryanm |
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#26
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#27
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On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 12:16:37 -0700, Shawn wrote:
Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver. They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Unfortunatly I'm not experienced enough to do a sound-check without hearing my system and our current sound-person is the drummer's girlfriend who, bless her heart, is working her tail off but is way to inexperienced to mix from scratch. As a result we fought most of the night with feedback and generally bad sound. The more she tried to fix things the worse things got. Between sets my brother and I troubleshot and fixed some things. One thing I found was that I didn't have a good enough signal coming out of the mains eq so she had to crank channel gain knobs to get enough volume, which, of course contributed to feedback problems and distortion/clipping. This is an issue that I would likely have noticed and fixed when I did a real soundcheck. The rational/professional side of me thinks that if a club isn't professional enough to give us the opportunity to make our product sound as good as it can then I just won't play there. At risk here is speakers that can be blown, vocal cords that can be blown, a reputation that can be blown... This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. Will this kind of approach/limitation/demand limit the clubs we can play in? Is this that common? Thanks to all, Shawn My band actually wrote a song called 'soundchecking' for these situations. It starts with drums, then bass comes in etc. The arrangement is pretty loose so we can jam around until the sound comes together. We announce the song as 'soundchecking', and the audience seems to get the idea. We try to get as much done as possible while the DJ is playing beforehand too (just play over the music, but as little as possible). Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. |
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#28
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Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George |
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#29
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"George" wrote in message ... Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L |
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#30
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In article 0VJ_c.321133$J06.309317@pd7tw2no, "Joe L"
wrote: "George" wrote in message ... Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L I got the plugs and they help but it is just a rude way to end the night G |
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Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: X-Abuse-Info: Please forward a copy of all headers for proper handling X-Trace: ofjmidbaofeaohdodbdpiflmbcekedmfhojhikkbagflhcboef mfjlnobkpigfebmodoldmkocifcjbkjkmikhgojelaegjdkmjh khgeliomjaoigompdmeinpcoddehhflepemllimjdinfhdiaoh kbmoalnoeiæUx‘ NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:21:46 EDT Organization: BellSouth Internet Group Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 02:21:46 GMT Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.audio.pro.live-sound:136390 rec.audio.pro:1104636 On 2004-09-05 said: what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L I got the plugs and they help but it is just a rude way to end the night G I think it's rather rude myself. AFter I've been bombarded with loud I'd like to be able to communicate with people while I'm packing up and loading the truck. I also like to listen to as close to silence as I can get to let my ears recover a bit thank you very much. Richard Webb, Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La. REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email -- |
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Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: X-Abuse-Info: Please forward a copy of all headers for proper handling X-Trace: ofjmidbaofeaohdodbdpiflmbcekedmfhojhikkbagflhcboef mfjlnobkpigfebmodoldmkocifcjbkjkmikhgojelaegjdkmjh khgeliomjaoigompdmeinpcoddehhflepemllimjdinfhdiaoh kbmoalnoeiæUx‘ NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 22:21:46 EDT Organization: BellSouth Internet Group Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 02:21:46 GMT Xref: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com alt.audio.pro.live-sound:136390 rec.audio.pro:1104636 On 2004-09-05 said: what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L I got the plugs and they help but it is just a rude way to end the night G I think it's rather rude myself. AFter I've been bombarded with loud I'd like to be able to communicate with people while I'm packing up and loading the truck. I also like to listen to as close to silence as I can get to let my ears recover a bit thank you very much. Richard Webb, Electric SPider Productions, New Orleans, La. REplace anything before the @ symbol with elspider for real email -- |
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In article 0VJ_c.321133$J06.309317@pd7tw2no, "Joe L"
wrote: "George" wrote in message ... Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L I got the plugs and they help but it is just a rude way to end the night G |
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"George" wrote in message ... Most gigs we are set up and soundchecked way before the place opens though, that really is the only professional way. If it's a venue that knows anything about live music there will be a schedule for all bands soundchecks so support bands etc are ready too. what bugs me much worse than no soundcheck is after the show , the clubs patrons are gone yet to barbacks blast the house PA at full tilt with thier favorite "music" for just the three of them to "enjoy" George Earplugs George, I use the westone so I can still converse when I need to. Saved me many times. But nothing like blasting tunes after the gig, geez. Joe L |
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On 28 Aug 2004 12:16:37 -0700, (Shawn)
wrote: Did a show last night at a very swanky club in Denver. They had the house music cranked insanely loud with that nasty techno-dance crap and they wouldn't turn it off for us to do a sound-check. Were you there early enough to do a sound-check? Once the punters are in is too late. CubaseFAQ www.laurencepayne.co.uk/CubaseFAQ.htm "Possibly the world's least impressive web site": George Perfect |
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"Shawn" wrote in message om... snip This is an issue that I would likely have noticed and fixed when I did a real soundcheck. The rational/professional side of me thinks that if a club isn't professional enough to give us the opportunity to make our product sound as good as it can then I just won't play there. At risk here is speakers that can be blown, vocal cords that can be blown, a reputation that can be blown... This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. Will this kind of approach/limitation/demand limit the clubs we can play in? Is this that common? Thanks to all, Shawn first which club were you in? Quixote's (sp)? and yes it is a bad approach when trying to get into more venues insisting on sound checks when you don't show up before 7pm... also there are so many bands out there that are willing to play for pennies and not complain about sound systems because they just want to get their spot to be seen... what alot of musicians don't realize is that Guitar Center and Musicians Friend and all of the others are big and in business because there are alot of bands around, with that said it isn't a big deal (unless you have a known draw) to say "we wont play" because there are 1000's of other bands waiting for that stage to be open... now with the sound issues: in my case the troupe I run with, can go with out sound checks as 1. I carry my own Mics and DI's so I have a good idea as to what I will be getting from the stage. 2. (in the case where the system is already working for DJ) I listen to the system look at the amps get a grasp for how its responding. and 3. I've been doing it (sound) long enough! with that I can go on the fly and it not be a big deal... hope this helps... so get your mics and a good workable input list together it speeds up things when pinning the stage as well as give your FOH person a better sense of consistency which helps for those time sound checks aren't possible... wait til you get to doing festivals michael |
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"Shawn" wrote in message ... Will this kind of approach/limitation/demand limit the clubs we can play in? I've really never heard of such a thing as 'totally' disregarding the need for a soundcheck, even if you have to arrive several hours before the DJ starts playing in order to get it done. As to your original header question, I have to do this several times per month. It is still an exception and not the rule.... and for me, it's mostly acoustic acts (solos, duos, trios) that walk in right before showtime and plug in and play. There are lots of "big bash" cases where no-one really gets a sound check. On August 1st, I put 30 acts across a stage in 12 hours and no one got anything more than a line check in the 5-minute change-over periods. An experienced operator who wears the room like a glove should be able to start you 'cold' with no one in the audience really able to tell. Even getting only a line check, if done by an experienced operator, should be enough to start you without sounding like mud. Even an operator that's worth their weight in sand should be able to tweak out the room pretty rapidly to put the quietus on any feedback problems. It also sounds like volume may have been a serious contributing factor to your dilemma... not just the FOH or monitor volume, but stage volume will make additional minor headaches for even an experienced operator. All systems have limits, and your pilot didn't seem (by your description) to have a grip on what those were or how to get the most from it within those limitations. I think, if the problems are as you describe, you should be weighing the validity of bothering to play this place again. If the house provided your system, I can see where an unfamiliar operator might have problems. If you were working with your own gear, it just doesn't seem like it should have gone a badly as you describe. In any case, I'd try to make arrangements for time to accomplish what you need to accomplish before the place opens. If that can't be done and the circumstances are indeed as you described, screw 'em with a big stick... do a short and sweet 'volume-up' line check and make sure your levels are at least within operating parameters. It only takes a couple of seconds per line to be sure you're in the ballpark. One thing a lot of folks overlook when following a great in-house DJ system with a modest PA that they just hauled in the door, is that they aren't going to be able to 'blow away' the darned DJ system. -- David Morgan (MAMS) http://www.m-a-m-s DOT com Morgan Audio Media Service Dallas, Texas (214) 662-9901 _______________________________________ http://www.artisan-recordingstudio.com |
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"Shawn" wrote in message
om... This is really a no-brainer to me, but then I'm coming from the professional musician's viewpoint not the professional (or un-professional as the case may be) club owner perspective. Will this kind of approach/limitation/demand limit the clubs we can play in? Is this that common? We play a lot of bars and events that are already open at load in time and either allow no sound check or only a very minimal sound check. As a result, we've gotten very good at guessing, since we know our gear and our band, so we have a pretty good idea of where things should start. Then we use the first few songs to tweak. If we're worried about it, we'll push a few 3 piece songs to the front of the set list so that there is less to worry about at first, and more parts are added in after a good baseline is set with the guitar bass and drums. I can't give you anything as useful as George's reply, and I wouldn't be able to do it nearly as well if I were mixing different bands every night. We *always* do a signal check on every channel before start time, to make sure that everything is at least present in the mix, and then play it by ear once the set starts. I much prefer a sound check, but unfortunately it's not on many venue owner's priority lists. ryanm |
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