[Robert Peirce]

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes. �Some of it is
very high quality vinyl. �Some is on 15ips tape. �The easiest way to do
this is to run the tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar. �However, this
requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what is a better
option?

[isw]

In article ,
Robert Peirce wrote:

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes. �Some of it is
very high quality vinyl. �Some is on 15ips tape. �The easiest way to do
this is to run the tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar. �However, this
requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what is a better
option?

The line input on your Mac is easily up to handling those sources
without degradation; it has very close to "pro-audio" specs. The
frequency response is greater, the distortion is lower, and the noise
floor is much lower, than either vinyl or tape.

You can probably find the actual specs in the user's manual that came
with the Mac.

Isaac

[Robert Peirce]

In article , isw wrote:

The line input on your Mac is easily up to handling those sources
without degradation; it has very close to "pro-audio" specs. The
frequency response is greater, the distortion is lower, and the noise
floor is much lower, than either vinyl or tape.

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try to see if I like it. My
current playback equipment is very good but I can give up a little
quality as long as I still have the originals.

You can probably find the actual specs in the user's manual that came
with the Mac.

I wasn't able to find that, although I'm sure it is available somewhere.
I know I can load a CD in and send it to my HiFi set using Apple TV and
there doesn't seem to be any loss, but that is 100% digital the whole
way. My concern was the A/D conversion.

[isw]

In article ,
Robert Peirce wrote:

In article , isw wrote:

The line input on your Mac is easily up to handling those sources
without degradation; it has very close to "pro-audio" specs. The
frequency response is greater, the distortion is lower, and the noise
floor is much lower, than either vinyl or tape.

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try to see if I like it. My
current playback equipment is very good but I can give up a little
quality as long as I still have the originals.

You can probably find the actual specs in the user's manual that came
with the Mac.

I wasn't able to find that, although I'm sure it is available somewhere.
I know I can load a CD in and send it to my HiFi set using Apple TV and
there doesn't seem to be any loss, but that is 100% digital the whole
way. My concern was the A/D conversion.

Here are the numbers for my three- or four-year-old MacBook; I doubt
yours are very different:

During input of a 1 kHz, full-scale 1VRMS sine wave (44.1 kHz input
sample rate, 24-bit sample depth, 0.0 dB input gain, no weighting) the
audio line input has the following nominal specifications:

* Jack Type: 3.5 mm stereo

* Maximum Input Voltage: 1.2 VRMS (+3.8 dBu)

* Minimum Voltage Input for Full Scale Output: 38 mVRMS (-26.2 dBu)
at Input Gain = +30.0 dB

* Input Impedance: 20 k‡

* Frequency Response: 20 Hz * 20 kHz, +0.5 dB/-3 dB

* Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR): 90 dB

* Total Harmonic Distortion + Noise (THD+N): -80 dB (0.01%)

* Channel Separation: 80 dB

--

It's very unlikely that any 15 ips tape source can get close to those
numbers, and totally impossible for any vinyl source to even get into
the same ballpark. There won't be any noticeable (or measurable)
degradation.


Isaac

[Audio Empire]

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:40:28 -0800, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article ):

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes. �Some of it is
very high quality vinyl. �Some is on 15ips tape. �The easiest way to do
this is to run the tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar. �However, this
requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what is a better
option?


While the A/D in the Mac is probably better than it is in MANY Windows
laptops (can't make a general statement here. There are so many Windows
laptops at price points ranging from $300 all the way up to over $2000, that
there's no way to know what all of them are like), But In my humble opinion
the Mac's A/D is STILL not really top quality (especially for the 15 ips
tapes) and while it will work, I don't know what your expectations are. OTOH,
what I was using for those tasks is the Behringer FCA202 with my G4 iBook.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCA202.aspx

At under $100, it has 24/96 resolution (if you want that. it also works fine
at 16/44.1 or 16/48), is connected to the Mac via Firewire, and when used in
conjunction with with the freeware program Audacity, does a great job of
digitizing vinyl and analog tape.

I used to record a major symphony orchestra half track/ Dolby "A" at 15 ips
on both a Sony 880 (using Sony FerroChrome tape on the Sony) and an Otari
5050 (Ampex "Grand Master" 456) and I transferred all the masters to digital
using this setup (they were starting to deteriorate - especially the Ampex
stuff). I'm still amazed at how good they sound when I play back the CDs and
DVD-As that I made from these tapes.

[Robert Peirce]

In article ,
Audio Empire wrote:

On Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:40:28 -0800, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article ):

In my humble opinion
the Mac's A/D is STILL not really top quality (especially for the 15 ips
tapes) and while it will work, I don't know what your expectations are. OTOH,
what I was using for those tasks is the Behringer FCA202 with my G4 iBook.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/FCA202.aspx

At under $100, it has 24/96 resolution (if you want that. it also works fine
at 16/44.1 or 16/48), is connected to the Mac via Firewire, and when used in
conjunction with with the freeware program Audacity, does a great job of
digitizing vinyl and analog tape.

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[Arny Krueger]

"Robert Peirce" wrote in message

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes.
�Some of it is very high quality vinyl. �Some is on
15ips tape. �The easiest way to do this is to run the
tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and transfer
it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar.
�However, this requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what
is a better option?

I did a little googling about, and found the following claims:

"
The line input operates independently from all other audio input ports and
is always available. The line input supports recording at bit depths of 16,
20, or 24 bits per sample and at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96
kHz. Audio recorded from the line input is presented as a stereo data
stream. The line input gain can be adjusted from 0.0 dB to +30 dB.

During input of a 1 kHz, full-scale 1 VRMS sine wave (44.1 kHz input sample
rate, 24-bit sample depth, 0.0 dB input gain, no weighting) the audio line
input has the following nominal specifications:

Jack type: 3.5 mm stereo
Maximum input voltage: 1 VRMS (+2.22 dBu)
Minimum voltage input for full scale output: 31 mVRMS (-27.95 dBu) at input
gain = +30 dB
Input impedance: 20 kO
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0.5 dB/-3 dB
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR): 90 dB
Total harmonic distortion + noise (THD+N): -75 dB (0.02%)
Channel separation: 80 dB
"

I cannot find any independent technical evaluations to back this up. I also
find nothing about them that raises any concerns. It is very likely that the
on-board audio input on the Macbook meets these specs because they are
typical of good quality modern computers.

[isw]

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Robert Peirce" wrote in message

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes.
�Some of it is very high quality vinyl. �Some is on
15ips tape. �The easiest way to do this is to run the
tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and transfer
it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar.
�However, this requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what
is a better option?

I did a little googling about, and found the following claims:

"
The line input operates independently from all other audio input ports and
is always available. The line input supports recording at bit depths of 16,
20, or 24 bits per sample and at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz, or 96
kHz. Audio recorded from the line input is presented as a stereo data
stream. The line input gain can be adjusted from 0.0 dB to +30 dB.

During input of a 1 kHz, full-scale 1 VRMS sine wave (44.1 kHz input sample
rate, 24-bit sample depth, 0.0 dB input gain, no weighting) the audio line
input has the following nominal specifications:

Jack type: 3.5 mm stereo
Maximum input voltage: 1 VRMS (+2.22 dBu)
Minimum voltage input for full scale output: 31 mVRMS (-27.95 dBu) at input
gain = +30 dB
Input impedance: 20 kO
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0.5 dB/-3 dB
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR): 90 dB
Total harmonic distortion + noise (THD+N): -75 dB (0.02%)
Channel separation: 80 dB
"

I cannot find any independent technical evaluations to back this up. I also
find nothing about them that raises any concerns. It is very likely that the
on-board audio input on the Macbook meets these specs because they are
typical of good quality modern computers.

With the added advantage that the measurements were (presumably) made in
a computer just like yours. With most PC/sound card combinations,
there's every chance that the measurements were *not* made with a
similar motherboard/power supply/chassis/whatever other cards are
plugged in to it, and so the numbers may not mean much.

Isaac

[Arny Krueger]

"isw" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:

"Robert Peirce" wrote in message

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes.
�Some of it is very high quality vinyl. �Some is on
15ips tape. �The easiest way to do this is to run the
tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar.
�However, this requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? �If not, what
is a better option?

I did a little googling about, and found the following
claims:

"
The line input operates independently from all other
audio input ports and is always available. The line
input supports recording at bit depths of 16, 20, or 24
bits per sample and at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz,
or 96 kHz. Audio recorded from the line input is
presented as a stereo data stream. The line input gain
can be adjusted from 0.0 dB to +30 dB.

During input of a 1 kHz, full-scale 1 VRMS sine wave
(44.1 kHz input sample rate, 24-bit sample depth, 0.0 dB
input gain, no weighting) the audio line input has the
following nominal specifications:

Jack type: 3.5 mm stereo
Maximum input voltage: 1 VRMS (+2.22 dBu)
Minimum voltage input for full scale output: 31 mVRMS
(-27.95 dBu) at input gain = +30 dB
Input impedance: 20 kO
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0.5 dB/-3 dB
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR): 90 dB
Total harmonic distortion + noise (THD+N): -75 dB
(0.02%)
Channel separation: 80 dB
"

I cannot find any independent technical evaluations to
back this up. I also find nothing about them that raises
any concerns. It is very likely that the on-board audio
input on the Macbook meets these specs because they are
typical of good quality modern computers.

With the added advantage that the measurements were
(presumably) made in a computer just like yours. With
most PC/sound card combinations, there's every chance
that the measurements were *not* made with a similar
motherboard/power supply/chassis/whatever other cards are
plugged in to it, and so the numbers may not mean much.

IME, there are not many instances of an audio interface performing that
differently in various computers. I see it every once in a while, but not
frequently.

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 21:00:13 -0800, Arny Krueger wrote
(in article ):

"isw" wrote in message

In article ,
"Arny Krueger" wrote:
=20
"Robert Peirce" wrote in message

I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes.
=EF=BF=BDSome of it is very high quality vinyl. =EF=BF=BDSome is on
15ips tape. =EF=BF=BDThe easiest way to do this is to run the
tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar.
=EF=BF=BDHowever, this requires an A-D conversion.
=20
Is the converter in the Mac good enough? =EF=BF=BDIf not, what
is a better option?
=20
I did a little googling about, and found the following
claims:
=20
"
The line input operates independently from all other
audio input ports and is always available. The line
input supports recording at bit depths of 16, 20, or 24
bits per sample and at sample rates of 44.1 kHz, 48 kHz,
or 96 kHz. Audio recorded from the line input is
presented as a stereo data stream. The line input gain
can be adjusted from 0.0 dB to +30 dB.
=20
During input of a 1 kHz, full-scale 1 VRMS sine wave
(44.1 kHz input sample rate, 24-bit sample depth, 0.0 dB
input gain, no weighting) the audio line input has the
following nominal specifications:
=20
Jack type: 3.5 mm stereo
Maximum input voltage: 1 VRMS (+2.22 dBu)
Minimum voltage input for full scale output: 31 mVRMS
(-27.95 dBu) at input gain =3D +30 dB
Input impedance: 20 kO
Frequency response: 20 Hz to 20 kHz, +0.5 dB/-3 dB
Signal-to-noise ratio (SNR): 90 dB
Total harmonic distortion + noise (THD+N): -75 dB
(0.02%)
Channel separation: 80 dB
"
=20
I cannot find any independent technical evaluations to
back this up. I also find nothing about them that raises
any concerns. It is very likely that the on-board audio
input on the Macbook meets these specs because they are
typical of good quality modern computers.
=20
With the added advantage that the measurements were
(presumably) made in a computer just like yours. With
most PC/sound card combinations, there's every chance
that the measurements were *not* made with a similar
motherboard/power supply/chassis/whatever other cards are
plugged in to it, and so the numbers may not mean much.
=20
IME, there are not many instances of an audio interface performing that=
=20
differently in various computers. I see it every once in a while, but n=
ot=20
frequently.
=20

Depends on the audio chipset, I'd say. There are a number of different on=
es=20
you know. But what it is probably NOT a function of is computer price. Au=
dio=20
chipsets, like every other chip in a computer is a commodity item with=20
processors being the most expensive chip in most computers. Some less=20
expensive computers can actually use an audio chipset that's better than =
one=20
in another, more expensive model. It's hard to know. OTOH, they are all=20
probably in the ballpark, performance wise, and none of them mentioned he=
re=20
in the last couple of days exactly excites me with their -3dB @ 20KHz=20
performance. That might be OK for speakers, but I expect modern electroni=
cs=20
to do better than that.

[Arny Krueger]

"Audio Empire" wrote in message


Depends on the audio chipset, I'd say. There are a number
of different ones you know.

Motherboard Audio is a highly competitive area with just a few players. One
source suggests that Realtek has 80% market share with Analog Devices,
Intel, CMI and a few others splitting up the rest. Realtek is so competitive
that Intel motherboards often have Realtek audio chips on them.

But what it is probably NOT a
function of is computer price. Audio chipsets, like every
other chip in a computer is a commodity item with
processors being the most expensive chip in most
computers. Some less expensive computers can actually use
an audio chipset that's better than one in another, more
expensive model. It's hard to know. OTOH, they are all
probably in the ballpark, performance wise, and none of
them mentioned here in the last couple of days exactly
excites me with their -3dB @ 20KHz performance.

For example Realtek's ALC 888xx spec sheet claims 7.1 channel support via
high-performance DACs with 97dB SNR (A-Weighting), and ADCs with 90dB SNR
(A-Weighting) Independent tests done on motherboards from several different
vendors show results in this range, as well as response no more than 0.5 dB
down at 20 KHz.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthre...=150208&page=4 post #87

[bartbrn]

On Dec 24, 6:40=A0pm, Robert Peirce wrote:
I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes.

As for software, for really excellent conversion and editing control
at a very reasonable price ($70.00), I'm a big fan of Ambrosia
Software's WireTap Studio. You can get a free trial download of it at:

http://www.ambrosiasw.com/

and no, I don't work for Ambrosia or have any connection with it, but
I've been using WireTap for a long time (since it was simply WireTap,
then WireTap Pro, and now WireTap Studio.

As Isaac said: "The line input on your Mac is easily up to handling
those sources without degradation; it has very close to "pro-audio"
specs. The frequency response is greater, the distortion is lower, and
the noise floor is much lower, than either vinyl or tape."

WireTap Studio has a very large bag of tricks for resampling (up or
down), adjustable filtering (high-pass, band-pass, low-pass, and many
more I don't even know enough to use), hum- and hiss-reduction,
lossless conversion and non-destructive editing (the original
recording is always right there, behind any filters, effects, or
editing you've applied), it can record from line in, Mac Audio, any
application you have open (Web browsers, WMV players, VLC, Quicktime,
GarageBand, iTunes, you name it), or any source playing on your
computer (CD, DVD, Flash Video (like YouTube), Pandora, Last.FM, any
internet radio, ad infinitum, and all editable -- if it makes a sound
on the Mac, it's recordable), and it outputs more audio file types
than I've ever heard of. It's well worth checking out, especially for
free.

Have fun!

Bart Brown

[bartbrn]

Oh, yeah -- one of the other great functions I forgot to mention about
Ambrosia's WireTap Studio is its user-adjustable ability (with the
Apple and Camel Audio selectable effects included, and you can import
others) to time AND/OR pitch shift -- in other words, you can slow
down or speed up the tempo (in increments as small as .01 bpm) without
changing the pitch, and you can change the pitch (in increments as
small as .001 Cents) without changing the tempo, or you can do both.

Slowing down a song while maintaining the correct pitch may not be a
big deal for audiophiles, but it certainly is for musicians trying to
learn a song without sheet music of tablature. You can also adjust
tempos and pitch to match other pieces of audio you may have created,
for splicing or multi-tracking.

Also, you can edit waveforms in time increments less than 0.002 sec
duration. I'm not sure how much less, but 0.002 sec is a pretty small
pinch of time, even in a Barry Manilow song (though it may SEEM like
forever!).

bartbrn

[Kele]

On Dec 24, 1:40=A0pm, Robert Peirce wrote:
I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes. Some of it is
very high quality vinyl. Some is on 15ips tape. The easiest way to do
this is to run the tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar. However, this
requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? If not, what is a better
option?

Another option is VLC media player ( http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ )
and Pinnacle Dazzle (
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSit...ducts/Home+Vi=
deo/Studio+Family/Video+Capture+for+Mac.htm
)

Both hardware and software are available for MAC. With hardware
connected (Source RC to Pinnacle Dassle to USB in), VLC (via the
stream source function) can save the streaming audio as a .wav file
[maybe another file type(s) for the MAC version]. Another instance of
VLC is open to monitor the feed. Once the .wav file is created (one
side of an album for example), I use EAC to edit the file, ie: crop
the beginning and ending silence, and/or it's possible to select and
"Save-As" each album side track. I don't know a MAC equivalant audio
file (.wav) editor. In the PC world it's easy to find recorders that
tap from the mic line in, but not easy to find software that "sees"
the USB port; I havn't found a free one other than VLC. Note that VLC
is also a multi-purpose media player.

My 3.5mm mic line-in is noisy with buzz, but the record via USB method
comes out real nice.

- Kele

[Audio Empire]

On Mon, 27 Dec 2010 20:59:42 -0800, Kele wrote
(in article ):

On Dec 24, 1:40=A0pm, Robert Peirce wrote:
I want to input some non-digital material into iTunes. Some of it is
very high quality vinyl. Some is on 15ips tape. The easiest way to do
this is to run the tape-out on my preamp to the input on my Mac and
transfer it to HD with Pure Vinyl or something similar. However, this
requires an A-D conversion.

Is the converter in the Mac good enough? If not, what is a better
option?

Another option is VLC media player ( http://www.videolan.org/vlc/ )
and Pinnacle Dazzle (
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/PublicSit...ducts/Home+Vi=
deo/Studio+Family/Video+Capture+for+Mac.htm


Both hardware and software are available for MAC. With hardware
connected (Source RC to Pinnacle Dassle to USB in), VLC (via the
stream source function) can save the streaming audio as a .wav file
[maybe another file type(s) for the MAC version]. Another instance of
VLC is open to monitor the feed. Once the .wav file is created (one
side of an album for example), I use EAC to edit the file, ie: crop
the beginning and ending silence, and/or it's possible to select and
"Save-As" each album side track. I don't know a MAC equivalant audio
file (.wav) editor. In the PC world it's easy to find recorders that
tap from the mic line in, but not easy to find software that "sees"
the USB port; I havn't found a free one other than VLC. Note that VLC
is also a multi-purpose media player.

My 3.5mm mic line-in is noisy with buzz, but the record via USB method
comes out real nice.

- Kele

Macs have a built-in software/hardware technology called "Core Audio" which
makes it very easy to point the computer to the correct input port, be that
USB, FireWire, or AES/EBU via the mini-phone plug on the side of the
computer. Often it does it automatically.