[Danny T]

I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...

[Ian Bell[_2_]]

Danny T wrote:
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...


www.customtubeconsoles.com


Have anything you like but not for $1000

Cheers

ian

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...

scour ebay for a small old Ramsa
George

[Laurence Payne[_2_]]

On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:05:13 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote:

I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...

scour ebay for a small old Ramsa

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:05:13 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."
wrote:

I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...

scour ebay for a small old Ramsa

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

if clean and running proper, yes. if run hard and hung up wet then no
george

[Mike Rivers]

Laurence Payne wrote:

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Depends on the application and what other equipment is used with it, but
in general, no. If cost
was important, I'd use a Behrenger or Mackie mixer, take care to keep
the signal level in the "sweet
spot" (no clipping, enough level to overcome noise) and put my money
into better mics.

Of course, if there was a special requirement, like very low input
signal levels (recording nature
sounds and such) then I'd have to look elsewhere, and probably spend
more money.

--
"Today's production equipment is IT based and cannot be operated without
a passing knowledge of computing, although it seems that it can be
operated without a passing knowledge of audio." - John Watkinson

[Danny T]

On Apr 22, 7:47*am, Mike Rivers wrote:
Laurence Payne wrote:
Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Depends on the application and what other equipment is used with it, but
in general, no. If cost
was important, I'd use a Behrenger or Mackie mixer, take care to keep
the signal level in the "sweet
spot" (no clipping, enough level to overcome noise) and put my money
into better mics.

I'm using an AKG C5 and think it sound really good. There can be a bit
of a shrill side to it when I plug it into something like a Berhinger
board but through some of the better preamps is sounds very nice. I
have tried other mics but other better mics seem to feedback a lot
easier. This mic is pretty tight patterned so it doesn't so much.

[Scott Dorsey]

Laurence Payne wrote:
Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Yes, and not only that you can be a lot sloppier with gain structure and
get away with it. The difference is like night and day.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Danny T]

On Apr 22, 3:47*am, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:05:13 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."

wrote:
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

Thanks for the ideas...

scour ebay for a small *old Ramsa

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

I have a behringer board and the preamps are really noisy. I've use to
good stuff so maybe I'm being too picky but I think most things sound
better then a behringer preamp especially when its fairly low volume
acoustic music that I do. If I was doing electric guitars and drum
sets there is a lot of room to burry stuff but when its a single
acoustic guitar and one guy singing, hiss really shows up.

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
On Apr 22, 3:47 am, Laurence Payne wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2010 08:05:13 -0400, "George's Pro Sound Co."

wrote:
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

Thanks for the ideas...

scour ebay for a small old Ramsa

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

I have a behringer board and the preamps are really noisy. I've use to
good stuff so maybe I'm being too picky but I think most things sound
better then a behringer preamp especially when its fairly low volume
acoustic music that I do. If I was doing electric guitars and drum
sets there is a lot of room to burry stuff but when its a single
acoustic guitar and one guy singing, hiss really shows up.

it is just harder to get to the sweet spot on the behringer/mackie level
type gear, if you are haveing hiss I would reconsider your gain stageing,
including turning down the amplifers
George

[Richard Webb[_3_]]

On Thu 2038-Apr-22 10:55, George writes:
I have a behringer board and the preamps are really noisy. I've
use to good stuff so maybe I'm being too picky but I think most
things sound better then a behringer preamp especially when its
fairly low volume acoustic music that I do. If I was doing
electric guitars and drum sets there is a lot of room to burry
stuff but when its a single acoustic guitar and one guy singing,
hiss really shows up.

it is just harder to get to the sweet spot on the
behringer/mackie level type gear, if you are haveing hiss I
would reconsider your gain stageing, including turning down the
amplifers

Yep, that's wat I'd try to do. Behringer, PHonic, etc. all essentially bic lighter gear, but for clubbing good enough
for the application. Harder to do, but you should be able
to get the gain staging so you don't hear all that noise.

Regards,
Richard


remote audio in the Memphis, Tn. area: See www.gatasound.com

--
| Remove .my.foot for email
| via Waldo's Place USA Fidonet-Internet Gateway Site
| Standard disclaimer: The views of this user are strictly his own.

[Predrag Trpkov]

"Laurence Payne" wrote in message
...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX to the Allen &
Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but
not quite high end), I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the equation, just listening to
a rough mix from the multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots,
the notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency and definition
is striking.

I ended up with the Xenyx as a result of several years of radical
downsizing. Soundwise, it seemed like the first Behringer that was good
enough, didn't get in the way. I definitely liked being able to come up with
passable results for such a small investment. Unfortunately for my pocket,
the bubble is burst. I'll probably never own a large console again, but
sooner or later I'll get a baby Studer or something similar.

Predrag

[Mark]

On Apr 23, 10:13*am, "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX to the Allen &
Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but
not quite high end), I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the equation, just listening to
a rough mix from the multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots,
the notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency and definition
is striking.


I expect to read comments like that in the "audiophile" groups.

Did you make ANY measurements to verify what you think you hear?

Mark

[George's Pro Sound Co.]

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX to the Allen &
Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but
not quite high end), I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with
the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the equation, just listening
to
a rough mix from the multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots,
the notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency and definition
is striking.


I expect to read comments like that in the "audiophile" groups.

Did you make ANY measurements to verify what you think you hear?

Mark

Measurements are pointless, if you can't hear a diffrence there is no
diffrence. When you hear a night and day difference regardless of the
measurments there is a night vs. day difference
george

[Predrag Trpkov]

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX to the Allen &
Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but
not quite high end), I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with
the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the equation, just listening
to
a rough mix from the multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots,
the notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency and definition
is striking.


I expect to read comments like that in the "audiophile" groups.

Did you make ANY measurements to verify what you think you hear?

Mark


Sorry for hurting your feelings, my dear, terribly sorry.

I'm just a poor recordist, making records, you know, using my ears and
fingers. No money for your expensive measurement gear.

Even if I had the gear I wouldn't know how to measure, stupid me. So, no
measurements. Terribly, terribly sorry. Of course they sound the same,
Behringer and Allen & Heath. No difference at all. How could I ever have
said something so ridiculous.

Predrag

[Arny Krueger]

"Mark" wrote in message

On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in
message

...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably
better than a modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX
to the Allen & Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of
Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but not quite high end),
I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the
equation, just listening to a rough mix from the
multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots, the
notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency
and definition is striking.


I expect to read comments like that in the "audiophile"
groups.

Did you make ANY measurements to verify what you think
you hear?

More to the point, did he do any well-controlled listening tests?

The new Behringer consoles I've bench tested don't turn out too badly.

On balance, cheap consoles tend to be weak in the switches, pots and
connectors department and the smaller Behringer consoles I've owned for 3-5
years have shown a few weaknesses in this area. Note that is not true of
every piece of Behringer gear that I've owned. In other cases the pots,
switches, and connectors have held up very well.

[hank alrich]

Mark wrote:

On Apr 23, 10:13 am, "Predrag Trpkov"
wrote:
"Laurence Payne" wrote in message

...

Will an older "high end" board really sound noticeably better than a
modern Behringer?

Having switched recently from the Behringer Xenyx 2442FX to the Allen &
Heath WZ 20:8:2 (the first generation of Wizard mixers, mid-90s, good, but
not quite high end), I'd say yes, it's still a big difference. Even with the
clearly superior A&H preamps and eqs out of the equation, just listening to
a rough mix from the multitrack recorder, using only faders and pan pots,
the notorious veil is gone. The improvement in transparency and definition
is striking.


I expect to read comments like that in the "audiophile" groups.

Did you make ANY measurements to verify what you think you hear?

Mark

One works day in and day out, and nights, too, with one's kit. Sometimes
there is no more need to test something on a bench than there is to
subject one's fiddle to vibration analysis to find out if it sounds
good. Just play it.

If recordists had to take measurements ahead of every sonic decision
made about this or that piece of gear en route to delivering a product
the first record would never have been cut. At some point the work is
about music.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hsadharma

[Scott Dorsey]

"Danny T" wrote in message
...
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

You are about fifteen to twenty years too late for that. Used to be a lot
of old Neve suitcases, Ward-Beck broadcast consoles, baby Studers, and old
early Yamahas that sold for next to nothing. These days the kids will buy
up any of that stuff at insanely high prices to chop up to make DAW front
ends with the channel strips and there is no cheap stuff out there.

You might look at something like the smaller Quolle... but even that is
a good bit more than $1k.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Danny T]

On Apr 21, 10:44*am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
"Danny T" wrote in message

...

I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

You are about fifteen to twenty years too late for that. *Used to be a lot
of old Neve suitcases, Ward-Beck broadcast consoles, baby Studers, and old
early Yamahas that sold for next to nothing. *These days the kids will buy
up any of that stuff at insanely high prices to chop up to make DAW front
ends with the channel strips and there is no cheap stuff out there.

You might look at something like the smaller Quolle... but even that is
a good bit more than $1k.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. *C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

I know! I use to see those old boards getting given away but then the
parts started getting worth a lot for the "vintage" thing. I
snoozed :-)

I want set up a nice portable way to record and I mean portable is the
operative word. If I can't carry it easily and pretty much all at once
I'm not going to buy it. I'd just use some avalon 737's if there wan't
a weight issue.

I was at a studio in San Diego (crystal something) a few years back
helping a use-to-be friend record some tunes and I brought my own mics
since the studio was a low budget type. I lost $4,000 in mics that day
when someone absconded with them. From that day on I just make sure I
travel light so I can keep an eye on my things.

[Peter Larsen[_3_]]

Danny T wrote:

I want set up a nice portable way to record and I mean portable is the
operative word.

A small EPM (silky to my ears) or a small Mackie (I have an early version,
it is grainy to my ears, but in an up-front manner that can be charming) and
one or two Edirol R44's

Kind regards

Peter Larsen

[Danny T]

On Apr 21, 12:03*pm, "Peter Larsen" wrote:
Danny T wrote:
I want set up a nice portable way to record and I mean portable is the
operative word.

A small EPM (silky to my ears) or a small Mackie (I have an early version,
it is grainy to my ears, but in an up-front manner that can be charming) and
one or two Edirol R44's

* Kind regards

* Peter Larsen

I have been trying to find the measurements of the EPM's but cannot. I
think if I am going to go that cheap I'll get at least the 8 and maybe
the 12 so that I can use it on more then my intended plan but also to
keep some channels as reserve in case some fail. Where can find the
physical dimensions on these? Soungdcraft.com doesn't even list them -
what's up with that? (I have a cool little soft rack thing with a
mixer "pocket" and I'm going to fit my mixer in it and that's final :-)

[hank alrich]

Danny T wrote:

I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?


Thanks for the ideas...

Jesus, Danny, one Neve module goes for mutliples of that money.

A Metric Halo ULN-8 comes to mind, but not within a grand.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitar
http://hankalrich.com/
http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hsadharma

[Danny T]

On Apr 21, 12:57*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

Thanks for the ideas...

Jesus, Danny, one Neve module goes for mutliples of that money.

A Metric Halo ULN-8 comes to mind, but not within a grand.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitarhttp://hankalrich.com/http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hsadharma

Truth be told - I had old pricing in mind and posted this then looked
up prices and deleted the post. It still came, though....? Anyway, I
know. I'm going to probably just cough up more cash. My main goal is
to be mobil and very lightweight. I need to fit good into small, but I
must keep small.
The Metric Halo ULN-8 is about 6K so that isn't an option. What I'll
likely do is find some good preamps and pair it with an adequate
summing desk.

[Danny T]

On Apr 21, 12:57*pm, (hank alrich) wrote:
Danny T wrote:
I only need a few channels but want true high end from preamp to
output. I don't need A/D, just a 4X2 with inserts, great pre's, eq and
it would help to have channel outs but isn't a must. One stipulation
is something that require only a little standard maintenance and easy
maintenance.

Is there an aging neve or something its equal or better that can be
had for $1000?

Thanks for the ideas...

Jesus, Danny, one Neve module goes for mutliples of that money.

A Metric Halo ULN-8 comes to mind, but not within a grand.

--
ha
shut up and play your guitarhttp://hankalrich.com/http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/hsadharma

OH - and by the way, thanks for the CD. I really enjoyed the listen
and it officially made it to the stared group (don't cringe) in mp3
format on my iphone :-)