[UnsteadyKen]

Hi, a question about biamping theoretical only but has been puzzling me
for a while.

If i had a pair of speakers rated at 500w power handling then i assume
it would be ok to use a stereo amp rated at 250w per channel. but it
seems to me that the bass unit takes the most power and there would be a
danger of damaging the tweeter & midrange by feeding that section 250w
on there own. I expect that it depends on how the specific crossover
works, or have i got it all wrong (as usual)?

--

Ken

[Clyde Slick]

On 11 Feb, 19:05, UnsteadyKen wrote:
Hi, a question about biamping theoretical only but has been puzzling me
for a while.

If i had a pair of speakers rated at 500w power handling then i assume
it would be ok to use a stereo amp rated at 250w per channel. but it
seems to me that the bass unit takes the most power and there would be a
danger of damaging the tweeter & midrange by feeding that section 250w
on there own. I expect that it depends on how the specific crossover
works, or have i got it all wrong (as usual)?


Why in the worlld would you want a 250 watt amp to power your high
frequencies.

[UnsteadyKen]

On Feb 12, 12:59*am, Clyde Slick wrote:

Why in the worlld would you want a 250 watt amp to power your high
frequencies.

Perhaps the question should have been=Does a speakers power handling
rating apply only when single or biwired. is there a danger of
overloading the HF section when bi amping?

--
Ken

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Feb 11, 9:42 pm, Unsteadyken wrote:

is there a danger of
overloading the HF section when bi amping?

Yes.

We had a crappy sound tech in a band I was in. He constantly blew out
the tweeter diaphragms. Everybody else thought he was great though, I
and couldn't get a consensus to fire him.

If your speakers are set up for biamping follow the manufacturer's
recommendations. If there are no recommendations then I'd ask them for
some.

This may help:

Bi-amping, or biamplification, is used mainly in professional sound
reinforcement applications, where extremely high levels of loudness
are required. Here big, separate amplifiers powering the low
frequencies, and smaller amps for the midrange will increase overall
output. Sometimes they will use a separate outboard electronic
crossover (the speaker's internal crossover is disabled or bypassed
entirely) so the operator can vary and adjust individual crossover
frequencies, tailor the "slope" of the crossover to match the
strengths of each set of drivers, and also adjust the relative sonic
balance of bass, midrange and treble to suit the environment. This is
important for huge auditoriums or outdoor events where separate arrays
of treble and midrange horns are operating with big "bass bins," but
such systems have no place in domestic home theater systems in normal
rooms. Additionally, it puts control of the relative smoothness and
tonal balance into the hands of the sound system operator, a dangerous
tool for all but the most experienced sound reinforcement experts. It
also partly explains why the live sound at so many concert events (not
all, mind you) is so awful.

(i.e. and also why we blew so many diaphragms.)

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwir..._biamping.html

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Feb 11, 11:20*pm, Bret Ludwig wrote:
Bi-amping, or biamplification, is used mainly in professional sound
reinforcement applications, where extremely high levels of loudness
are required. Here big, separate amplifiers powering the low
frequencies, and smaller amps for the midrange will increase overall
output. Sometimes they will use a separate outboard electronic
crossover (the speaker's internal crossover is disabled or bypassed
entirely) so the operator can vary and adjust individual crossover
frequencies, tailor the "slope" of the crossover to match the
strengths of each set of drivers, and also adjust the relative sonic
balance of bass, midrange and treble to suit the environment. This is
important for huge auditoriums or outdoor events where separate arrays
of treble and midrange horns are operating with big "bass bins," but
such systems have no place in domestic home theater systems in normal
rooms. Additionally, it puts control of the relative smoothness and
tonal balance into the hands of the sound system operator, a dangerous
tool for all but the most experienced sound reinforcement experts. It
also partly explains why the live sound at so many concert events (not
all, mind you) is so awful.

(i.e. and also why we blew so many diaphragms.)

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwir..._biamping.html

*It's horse**** from a technical standpoint because CORRECTLY DONE
biamping, or tri-amping, or as needed (can we say "multi-amping"?) can
yield superior results to passive crossovers.

If you're arguing that most bi-or-tri-amped systems are not "mainly
used" in SR vs. the home market, or if you're arguing that there isn't
a very real danger of damaging HF speakers when biamping, then you're
on crack (which I suspect anyway, but for different reasons).

I fail to see how these statements are in conflict:

"This is important for huge auditoriums or outdoor events where
separate arrays of treble and midrange horns are operating with big
"bass bins," but such systems have no place in domestic home theater
systems in normal rooms. Additionally, it puts control of the relative
smoothness and tonal balance into the hands of the sound system
operator, a dangerous tool for all but the most experienced sound
reinforcement experts. It also partly explains why the live sound at
so many concert events (not all, mind you) is so awful."

"It's horse**** from a technical standpoint because CORRECTLY DONE
biamping, or tri-amping, or as needed (can we say "multi-amping"?) can
yield superior results to passive crossovers."

If you don't know what you are doing (i.e. "the most experienced" or
"CORRECTLY DONE") the results may sound far worse than a passive
crossover designed for that speaker system *and* you may/will damage
your speakers. The fact that someone was asking about damaging HF
speakers doing this leads me to believe they may not have much
experience.

BTW, we were blowing HF diaphragms with a 35 wpc amp, no doubt due to
clipping.

Your qualifier of "as needed" also does not conflict with the other
statement. So where's the problem?

[Arny Krueger]

"Bret Ludwig" wrote in message

Bi-amping, or biamplification, is used mainly in
professional sound reinforcement applications, where
extremely high levels of loudness are required. Here
big, separate amplifiers powering the low frequencies,
and smaller amps for the midrange will increase overall
output. Sometimes they will use a separate outboard
electronic crossover (the speaker's internal crossover
is disabled or bypassed entirely) so the operator can
vary and adjust individual crossover frequencies, tailor
the "slope" of the crossover to match the strengths of
each set of drivers, and also adjust the relative sonic
balance of bass, midrange and treble to suit the
environment. This is important for huge auditoriums or
outdoor events where separate arrays of treble and
midrange horns are operating with big "bass bins," but
such systems have no place in domestic home theater
systems in normal rooms. Additionally, it puts control
of the relative smoothness and tonal balance into the
hands of the sound system operator, a dangerous tool for
all but the most experienced sound reinforcement
experts. It also partly explains why the live sound at
so many concert events (not all, mind you) is so awful.

(i.e. and also why we blew so many diaphragms.)

http://www.axiomaudio.com/tips_biwir..._biamping.html

It's horse**** from a technical standpoint because
CORRECTLY DONE biamping, or tri-amping, or as needed (can
we say "multi-amping"?) can yield superior results to
passive crossovers. Additionally, it is the only kind of
multiple amplification that makes any technical sense
whatever.

Agreed, with the caveat given below.

Just yesterday I spoke of an excellent-sounding speaker system that did just
about everything wrong according to the reference, above. However, this
system worked as well as it did, because it was assembled and adjusted by
people with technical and artistic skills, not your average home audiophile.


The caveat is that it has to be done correctly and this
is not a simple task for the majority of users.

Right. The person who owned the system in question engineered the drivers,
crossovers, equalizers and amplifiers in several million audio systems that
are being listened to by consumers right now. OK, those audio systems are in
cars, but to a great degree, car audio is audio just like home audio.
Premium sound systems in modern cars are implemented as 2 and 3 way
multi-amped systems with active crossovers and precisely tuned equalization.
Technology done right simply works.

[Arny Krueger]

"Unsteadyken" wrote in message

On Feb 12, 12:59 am, Clyde Slick
wrote:

Why in the worlld would you want a 250 watt amp to power
your high frequencies.

Perhaps the question should have been=Does a speakers
power handling rating apply only when single or biwired.

You seem confused. Biwiring is not the same as biamping.

is there a danger of overloading the HF section when bi amping?

Yes, and there is a danger of overloading the HF section whether you are
biamping, biwiring or whatever.

A proper set of specifications gives the power rating for the speaker in all
of its available modes.

Failing that, you use common sense.

[Shhhh! I'm Listening to Reason!]

On Feb 12, 6:50*am, "Arny Krueger" wrote:
"Unsteadyken" wrote in message

On Feb 12, 12:59 am, Clyde Slick
wrote:

Why in the worlld would you want a 250 watt amp to power
your high frequencies.

Perhaps the question should have been=Does a speakers
power handling rating apply only when single *or biwired.

You seem confused. Biwiring is not the same as biamping.

He doesn't seem confused, GOIA. The internal crossover would be used
whether single or biwired. The power-handling rating would not change.
The answer to his not-at-all confusing question would be "yes".

is there a danger of overloading the HF section when bi amping?

Yes, and there is a danger of overloading the HF section whether you are
biamping, biwiring or whatever.

But a far greater danger exists if bypassing the passive crossover
designed for that speaker and driving them directly.

A proper set of specifications gives the power rating for the speaker in all
of its available modes.

Agreed.

Failing that, you use common sense.

Failing that, I'd ask the manufacturer for their specs for whatever
application was not covered. I've seen a lot of blown speakers as a
result of "common sense".

[UnsteadyKen]

says...


Failing that, I'd ask the manufacturer for their specs for whatever
application was not covered. I've seen a lot of blown speakers as a
result of "common sense".


Thanks and to all who replied
--

Ken