Kris Singh wrote:


Why did you have Lord Alge in the same sentence then?? I am still not
clear of what you are trying to say. You did say he was by attaching
the auto-tune problem with the "loudness above audio" string. Like
they are hand in hand.

The original line was: "Pro-sTools/Auto-Tuned-Lord-Alge/SSL-Marcussen Mastering type "loudness above
audio" stylings we are subjected to today"... lemme break it down into little chunks for you.

I find the whole "Pro-sTooled to death", which includes, but is not limited to "auto tuned into
submission" fashion trend to be annoying. I find the cookie cutter SSL gymnastics small sounding mix
fashion to be annoying [they are mutually exclusive, but oft times follow each other in the chain of
production]... and those product seem to be followed by the "Marcussen style" mastering job... and
right or wrong, it has always seemed to me that Marcussen started the "loudness wars". I could be
indicting the man for something he didn't really do... but my perception, which may indeed be skewed,
was that Marcussen is the man behind the loudness curtain.

So... to recap... the 3 things I find annoying about modern music production are 1) the overuse of
the power of Pro-sTools for what seems to be flashing of the potential power as opposed to the
enhancement of the musical statement; 2) the TLA mix style that is the current standard of the
industry; and 3) the "loudness above audio" mastering fashion of the day.

In the interest of brevity [which has obviously been shot in the ****ing head at this point and is
bleeding by the quart into a pool or explanations of what I mistakenly thought was a fairly straight
forward concept] I strung the **** Record Trifecta together. My bad, sorry, I swear on my mother
I'll never do that again.

OK?



His mixes do cut through. What is "GRAINY" about his mixes?? Dude,
what are you saying. Calling it "small" I can understand.
Over-compression can often be interpreted as small. "GRAINY????"
What does that mean?

Adjectives are funny things when applied to audio. I was talking about what sounds to me like the
employment of many onboard SSL compressors. I find DBX VCA's to sound 'grainy'... as in '****ty,
harsh and nasty'... as in it seems to me that the switching noise of the steps of a DBX VCA when it's
in motion creates an upper, not so musical sounding harmonic that I find personally annoying as a
mother****er. That is what I mean by "grainy". If you have another adjective I can use that doesn't
require a diatribe explanation... I will gladly employ it in any and all subsequent references to the
artifacts that are sonically apparent from the implementation of DBX VCA's.



"I was associated
with a record where TLA/CLA mixed some of the same songs Jack Joseph Puig mixed... the
differences were more than palpable. I was recently associated with a record that was mastered
by Howie Weinburg, Steve Marcussen, Dave Collins and Bob Ludwig... all had interesting ideas...
and while a couple of them came pretty close, none of them really nailed it... each had a wart,
one had the least obtrusive wart and that's who's work will be on the release."

What does this mean?? What is this in response to? Who do you
like??? Why don't we start a thread where Mr. Fletcher speaks of the
good rather then what he does not like. Are you afraid to commend
something new????

Sure... I was associated with a record where TLA/CLA mixed some to the same song JJP mixed... JJP's
mixes where beautiful open and clear. JJP's mixes had an absolutely lovely range of emotion that was
enhanced by the audio presentation. CLA's mixes (for the most part) made the record... JJP and TLA
had one or two (I don't really remember) that made the record (I was in no position to make any call
what so ever... I was merely a semi interested by-stander)

I have no idea how to "speak of the good" any better than that... everything there was "positive"
wasn't it? As for the 'mastering' side of the story... I really can't say anything more "positive"
than "all had interesting ideas". The ideas were interesting. Not what I would have envisioned for
the record by a long shot... but definitely an eye opening, interesting event.




Tom Lord-Alge is like a Harley. If you want that sound, get a Harley.
Nothing else sounds like it. Not a bad thing to have a hold on a
sound. It is his thing.

I may ride rice for the rest of my ****ing life after reading that.

Ya know... if you actually listen to the sounds of H-D's... a Panhead sounds considerably different
than a Blockhead... and an Ironhead different than a Knucklehead... and with the possible exception
of the timing, a Shovelhead has a little less than nothing in common with the tone of a 104 cui.
stroked S&S V-Twin motor. Seeing as there is president for me explaining each and every ****ing
analogy into submission... lemme cut to the ****in' chase here...

There are a lot of variations to the sound of Harley Davidson style motorcycles. To lump all
Harley's into the same basket is just wrong [and annoying]. TLA/CLA's work does indeed have the same
"curve", "texture", "signature" [find me a ****ing adjective I'm not going to have to debate...
OK?]... H-D's have a "curve" and a "texture"... but upon closer examination, there is less of the
"sameness" than can be found in mixes from the TLA/CLA et al school of factory mixing.


Can't knock him... he has the Ferraris and
Yachts!!! LOL

Yep... can't knock that in the slightest. I absolutely do appreciate what goes into that sort of
affluence... and more power to 'um for achieving it. Just as there is no mandate that I enjoy the
work, there is no mandate that I begrudge them their successes...



"No, that may be why you employ it... but I think Jim Morrison proved
you can sing out of tune
and still sell records.

snip happens

Then keep that as you mojo. Don't bust pitch anytime. It can't work
as a "it's OK for Morrison but not Avril...."

Huh? Now I need a 'clarification'...


No. She can sing. **** anyone who says she can't. There is no such
thing as a talent knob or plug-in. She gets across. That is it. She
is not greatness, but she can sing a little and looks good naked in
many young boys minds.... including mine.

Sorry... I forgot what period we're talking about. My bad. Yeah, I forgot that all you need to do
these days is look like a **** sponge and have your **** reconstructed in Pro-sTools to be considered
a genius artiste... eMpTy-V is more than 20 years old at this point... you'd think I'd have ****ing
learned by now... good Lord I'm a putz.

agreeing **** snipped

I said, " Records today don't sound terrible across the board, and I
would like you to acknowledge that."

Fletcher said, "Acknowledged. However, many records that shouldn't
sound like ****, do sound like ****... I
would like you to acknowledge that."

Agreed, but that is not just true for records of today. There are old
great records that sound like **** that didin't need to.

Absolutely... but find me a "Led Zeppelin ___" that came from a Pro-sTools/SSL [insert favorite
famous mix dude name here]/Loud School of Mastering [****... 3 in a row again... hope I don't have to
clarify this again...] production ideal.

Find me a record that hits home like "Sticky Fingers" on the first listen. I'm not trying to break
your balls (ok... maybe a little bit I am)... I sincerely would love to hear it. I'm way sick and
tired of 10-15-20-30 year old records still holding up or surpassing the emotional content of what's
in the Wall Mart record bins.

When was the last time the "audio" seriously enhanced the presentation? "OK Computer"? Whadda we
got? "Division Bell?"


Not true. I love those records, but they sound dated. "Nevermind"
sounds so dated it isn't even funny. Listen with your ears, it will
help you hear. Leave heart out of it. "Appetite" has gated reverb on
the snare. Hello 80s. They are in-your-face records, but they are
dated in their own respective ways. Pro Tools never dates a record.
Auto-Tune used as a effect does.

Really... and what would be your "date stamp" for 'Nevermind'?

Funny, I don't hear gated reverb on the snare [in that "Hugh Padgham" kind of gated snare signature
kinda sound]... some "non-lin II" from an RMX-16 perhaps, [but it ain't "Let's Dance" by a long
shot]... not enough to be any more than aggressive... and FWIW "non-lin II" hasn't entirely
disappeared from the mixing radar screen... granted, TLA/CLA don't seem to employ it, but it's still
out there.

Pro-sTools never dates a record? Pal-leeeze.




dude, GO AWAY. "200 light years..." and the whole "Satanic" record
are magic. They are great sounding well produced songs.

....but they're a definitely 'time stamped' event... where as the 'Jimmy Miller era' RS records could
just have easily been done in damn near any decade... as both the Black Crowes showed in the late
80's and the Yayhoos [and to a good extent the Bottle Rockets] exemplified in the late 90's

The
mellotron in that song is the reason Fionna Apple had a career.

And that would be a good thing... why?


more agreement snipped

[note to Kris... I'm leaving on a family vacation tomorrow afternoon... so we only get to go one more
round of this... it is a kinda cool debate... but I've been absolutely instructed by both wife and
children that I am strictly forbidden to bring the laptop on the vacation... so we're gonna have to
wrap this up...]
--
Fletcher
Mercenary Audio
TEL: 508-543-0069
FAX: 508-543-9670
http://www.mercenary.com
"this is not a problem"