I aplologize for my inept internet skills. Somehow on the post below I
seem to be replying to Bob Bernstein when I was replying to the Bob Marcus
post below. I also apololgize for the frivolus tone of my reply to Bob
Marcus, if not my dissatisfaction with the general idea that I got from his
post, which is that "plug it in and play it; if you don't hear distortion
it's as good as it gets". That sounds like a subjective answer, and was
asking for an objective answer.
Mind you, I have no objection to the subjective school of audiophilia,
as I have followed that path for years. But as RAHE has many committed and
persuasive adherents to the objective school I thought I would find out some
objective criteria for amp selection. But not too successfully. Noussaine,
for example, tells of his dozen or so amps that all sound the same to him.
I don't doubt that he ( as well as all the other adherents of the "if it's a
nominally competent amp it sounds like all the other nominally competent
amps" school ) has a great system and great ears, but that's no help to me.
I would like to find out the criteria for NC status. Mr. Marcus says "flat
frequency response and enough power" and "without audible distortion". I am
under the impression that flat frequency response is as common as dirt. As
far as "without audible distortion" goes I have considerable experience in
the mid-fi business and I know that the vast majority of healthy young males
with good hearing think anything that plays loud has "no audible
distortion". Or is it "no audible distortion as judged by a golden eared
listener"? Who certifies the goldenness of the ears? Certainly
professional audiophile reviewers would be the clear choice for experienced
golden ears, but they all say that even the best amps have very different
sounds. Perplexing!
Besides, if distortion is audible variation from the original sound
then then vast majority of reproduced sound I have heard in my life has been
audibly distorted. Sometimes more distorted, sometimes less, sometimes a few
moments of a convincing illusion, sometimes "euphonic coloration" (which I
definea s likeable distortion), and only occasionally apparently free of
distortion.
As for selecting the speaker first, that's an interesting thought.
And it's worth it's own thread. I thought I would try to settle the quality
issue first and deal with the quantity issue later. Besides, after selecting
a speaker I would have to choose an amp, so knowing the elusive criteria for
"nominally competent" would be the starting point, wouldn't it? Maybe I
have a better speaker than I know, but my amp is lacking.
Wylie Williams
Wylie Williams" wrote in message
news:eJqbc.64188$JO3.38474@attbi_s04...
OK. I get it. If I don't hear any distortion it passes the test. Wow, I
had it all wrong. I thought that there was some objective verifiable
criteria. Now I can buy a $199 Kenwood receiver and be happy.
And all those kids who drive those boom cars have great equipment because
they don't hear any distortion.
This new subjective approach sounds great. Got to stop now; it's time to
got listen to some expensive cables.
Wylie Williams
"Bob Marcus" wrote in
Look, the task isn't nearly as difficult as you make it out to be. Plug
it
in, and see if it works. By which I mean, take the amp home, insert it
in your system, put on a big orchestral recording, crank the volume up as
high as you'll ever want to crank it, and ask yourself, "Does this sound
OK?"
If
it does, the amp's competent.
That would be a helpful answer to some people, but I never had a
system
that didn't sound "OK".
In that case, you've never had an amp that wasn't nominally competent. Why
is this so hard for you to accept?
What I have now is "Pretty Good", which is three
notches above "OK" on my personal scale. It may be foolish to seek to have
as close to "Wonderful" as I can afford, but I accept this character flaw
in
myself (and others) and persist in it. I conditionally accept my CD,
turntable and cables as sufficient. Before I get too crazy on speakers I
would like to assure myself that the sound quality and power output of my
amplification are not a limiting factor.
But whether or not your amp's power output is a limiting factor is
substantially dependent on your speakers (and your room, and how loud you
listen). You cannot answer that question before you've chosen your speakers.
The question of how to determine
if an amp is "nominally competent" seems to be the first step.
No. Choosing your speakers is the first step.
Once the NC
question is answered I can seek the answer to the question "how much power
is enough to be sure I am extracting all the performance from whatever
speaker I end up with".
Now I'm sure you don't get it. "Nominally competent" means, in essence, flat
frequency response and enough power. An amp isn't competent unless it can
deliver enough power.
Any money I save by not overspending on the amp can
be applied to the speakers.
. The audiophile press persists in saying that you can get better and
better sound in amps by spending more and more money.
Indeed they do, and lots of audiophiles believe them. Others don't, however,
and have offered some very good technical reasons why not.
Many RAHE members say
that a nominally competent amp can be had for comparatively modest cost.
Having sold low fi to mid fi for many years I know that there are many low
priced amps that definitely sound worse than their higher priced brethren.
This is often true when you know what the pricetag says. ;-)
I'd bet if you went back and compared those amps without knowing which was
which, you'd be a lot less definite.
Unfortunately I have too little experience with high end to know where the
point of "nominal competence" begins.
It has nothing whatsoever to do with price, for starters.
It would be very helpful if this term "nominally competent" has a meaning
that is definable and usable.
One more time: A nominally competent amplifier is one that delivers a signal
into a particular load (your speakers, your room, etc.) without audible
distortion--that is, with flat frequency response and minimal clipping.
Now, go out there and buy the best speakers you can afford.
bob
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