On Mon, 26 Mar 2007 07:25:44 +1000, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:
**He probably uses speakers. Rotels are designed to operate with
speakers.
Yamahas work better with dummy loads.
Says you and how many others?
**Everyone who has measured them.
I cite the following on the RX-485:
"One company that does make high-current receivers for those on a
tight budget is Yamaha. Rated at 65w/ch continuously into 8 ohms, that
power goes up to 70w/ch for 6 ohm loads like the Mini-Reference.
**Big whoop. From 65 Watts to 70 Watts. A theorectically perfect amp will
run to around 85 Watts. The Yammay falls well short of ideal.
And
the dynamic power output figures really show greater
capabilities--into 8/6/4/2 ohms respectively, IHF rated dynamic power
is 96/115/135/150 watts/ch (and all these are full 20hz-20Khz
bandwidth ratings, unlike the cheating I've seen some companies do by
only measuring their amplifiers driving a 40hz+ signal).
**Except that dynamic power ratings are worse than bull****.
This sort of
output, with power going up into lower loads, is a characteristic of a
good design with a good power supply.
**No, it is not. It is just that dynamic power figures make good copy for
people who have no idea about what they're talking about. Like the author.
Receivers without dynamic
headroom, and those that have their power drop dramatically below 8
ohms, are not recommended for driving real speakers no matter how high
their wattage figures may be."
**Utter, banal bull****. The author needs to contact the following
companies
and tell them how bad their amps a
Krell
Mark Levinson
Rowland
ME
Et al.
All the above amplifiers enjoy vanishingly small dynamic headroom figures.
The 'ideal' amplifier has a dynamic headroom figure of 0dB. As amplifiers
become worse (IE: Cheaper power supplies are used) then the dynamic
headroom
figure rises as well.
from this link:
http://www.soundstage.com/entry01.htm
**Keep reading that nonsense Paul and you'll never learn anything. The
author clearly has no idea.
I don't read it to learn anything, Trevor, merely to cite a contrary
opinion.
**An opinion held by an idiot is a useless opinion.
I know enough about the measurements cited to be as
unimpressed by the figures as you were (one does learn something
reading all those hi-fi mags over the years); I just didn't like your
smug tone in disparaging (or rather damning) Yamahas.
**I was disparaging an RX-300U. I was not disparaging ALL Yamahas.
" Rotels are designed to operate with speakers.
Yamahas work better with dummy loads."
Enough said.
You tend to talk
in absolutes, and brook no contradiction. A bad habit.
**I have many bad habits. Suffering fools is not one of them.
Do others ever say that about you? But of course, you wouldn't hear
it, would you?
My comments about your use of headphones remain.
The use of headphones invalidates your claim to knowing how an amplifier
sounds, for the vast majority of uses that the amplifier will be put to.
If that's true then there is no way of knowing what an amplifier
sounds like, since it will sound different with every speaker
depending on load---there is no constant.
**BINGO! Give the man $64,000.00. Now you're learning. We also need to
understand that to suggest one amplifier for the vast majority of
situations, that amplifier needs to have a wide load tolerance and a good
power supply. ALL Rotel amps satify those criteria, whilst only SOME Yamahas
can manage SOME of the criteria.
And what if an amp has good load tolerance and will drive any speaker,
but nevertheless sounds lousy? Would you recommend that amp?
In a way headphones give a
true sound since they are not causing the amp any difficulty.
**Wrong. Headphones have many virtues, but all the listener can do is to
judge how the headphone circuit sounds (along with preamp sections, of
course) of any given amplifier. For instance: In general an amplifier fitted
with a dedicated headphone amplifier (which Rotels are NOT fitted with) will
tend to sound better than an amplifier which feeds the headphones through
high value resistors from a speaker output stage (which is how Rotel and
most other amps do it). IOW: You may not be comparing apples with apples.
Disagree. I've listened to a lot of amps through good phones, and the
best sounding are those that feed from the speaker output stage. In
fact virtually all do anyway. You may cite one or two exotic
exceptions, but the fact remains that virtually all reasonably priced
amps feed the headphone socket from the speaker outlet through
resistors, and many sound brilliant while doing so. I have not been
impressed by dedicated HP amps, which sound thin and harsh by
comparison.