[Jenn]

In article ,
"ScottW" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 19, 3:58 pm, "Harry Lavo" wrote:
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message

. ..





wrote in message
roups.com
On Feb 19, 8:15 am, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:
"Harry Lavo" wrote in message

om

Over in alt.audio.pro.live-sound, a post was made by a
FOH engineer about Naiant mics, brought to his attention
by another sound man.

This is an example of how its possible for a person,
filled with self-pity because he's been held accountable
for his own behavior, misinterprets information offered
in good faith:

Naiant mics are little known mics hand produced by a
studio owner in North Carolina, essentially by bundling
a
standard electret capsule with circuitry that allows
them
to be phantom-powered, and then the whole thing
encapsulated inside a conventional XLR connector.
Moreover, he sells the things for $22, about what the
capsule itself costs unless purchased in bulk.

Simply not true. The Panasonic capsules in question have
been historically available for from $2 to $5 each. The
higher-priced (ca. $20) capsules are probably those from
Knowles, which are different products.

The word
has spread viral-like....I stumbled across them during
the late fall and bought four of the omnis (plus a
cardiod varient) for myself and my son just before
Christmas. A test recording of a grand piano showed the
omnis to have very acceptable sound when used as a close
mic (I didn't test their noise floor as a distance mic).

I've made microphones with these capsules over the past
20 years, and aside from their well-known limitations,
they can be used to make good-sounding recordings.

When the subject came up in rec.audio.pro.live-sound,
Arny clearly had not heard of them, but he (probably
accurately) guessed they pretty much sounded like a
small-footprint version of the cheapo Beringher omni
measurement mics that he and Bob Morein and many others
use to good effect for some purposes. So far so good.

I've disassembled a Behringer ECM 8000, and found that
they use an electret capsule that is very similar to the
Panasonic capsule, mentioned above. I've compared both
mics to B&K calibrated measurement mics, and found that
over a fairly wide frequency range any differences are
within the calibration curve of the B&K.

This morning Arny posted a post, somewhat dismissive in
tone, that showed he had scanned the web for articles
relating to modifications of electronics to use the
capsule with phantom power:
"Practical circuits for interfacing the Panasonic
capsules can be found all over the web - here are
several:http://sound.westhost.com/project93.htm

http://www.mp3forkidz.com/mic/

http://www.uneeda-audio.com/pzm/pzm_ch.htm

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/sys_test.htm#Mic

http://www.libinst.com/micassem.htm"

Some of these materials have been on the web for up to a
decade or more.

So far so good....Arny has shown that the idea was not
unique to Naiant (although they seem to be the first to
have commercialized it for a truly low-cost mic by
eliminating any machining). But, and here is the
kicker,
Arny didn't stop there. In fact before listing the
above
articles he implies to being one of the founders of the
idea:
"These things are very old news to some of us - they are
just Panasonic 6mm mic capsules hooked up so that they
have balanced outputs and work off of phantom power.
One
of the earliest published articles about the 6 mm
Panasonic capsules was written by a friend and I, and
was
published in the Audio Amateur maybe 20 years or more
ago"

Simply the truth. A friend of mine (who was chased off
of RAO by Alan Derrida among others) and I *discovered*
these mics in the Digi-Key catalog way back when,
ordered a few when we were ordering other parts from
them, and did some of the projects and tests that I
meantioned above.

Note that the article is not available on the web.

Noe doubt a consequence of being so old.

Note also that Arny's wording doesn't *say* that the
article
details a means of applying balanced phantom power to
the
capsule. But it certainly implies it.

That would be one of Harry's mental flights of fancies.
Note that I said that the article we wrote was about the
capsules. And, so it was.

I don't dismiss his claim...Arny is a well-known
scrounger of low-end approaches to audio, so coming up
with an el-cheapo mic certainly fit his MO. But, just
out of curiousity, does anybody here have access to old
Audio Amateur mags or a nearby technically-proficient
library that could determine whether the article exists,
and if it does, whether it bears directly on the issue
of phantom-powering the Panasonic capsule. I'd be
interested in knowing.

I'll cut to the chase, Harry. We didn't discuss phantom
power in our old AA article.

My suspicion is that Arny is once again reflexively
claiming credit by implication, after being surprised by
knowledge of a product that he didn't previously know
about.

That is just another one of Harry's flights of fancy.
Selling mics built into XLR plugs on eBay is nothing
new. The Niant product is nothing that I haven't known
about for years.

Anyone?

Sorry Harry, but you've finally managed to at least
gotten the most obvious facts right, and screwed up
badly whenever you departed from the facts that were
absolutely obvious and in your face.

-----------------------------------------------------

Master K. mentions a 20 year old article of his in
AA."which is no longer available on the web".
It is normal practice to give a reference: Author(s),
title, year, volume , #, page. Anyone interested can
trace it then- in public libraries , from the AA editor
or whatever.
Till such a reference is given it is justifiable to
suspect another one of Master Krueger's flights of fancy.
As simple as thet.

Talk about how it is possible for a person,
filled with self-pity because he's been held accountable
for his own behavior, to misinterpret information offered
in good faith:

I don't have the magazine at hand, and this article reference omits
author
names, but this looks pretty close:

"Make inexpensive instrumentation microphones using the Panasonic P9932
electret mike."

AUDIO AMATEUR 3/1984 [Jul 1984] (v.15#3) pg. 38


. Would you care to give us the citation
for where you found the citation?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -
__________________________________

Krueger said:
"Ludo, you're older than I am, and you are mouthing off like this. And
over
what - a little article that a friend and I wrote over 20 years ago? "
So let's see
On the 19th Krueger wrote in this thread:
Quoting me:
Master K. mentions a 20 year old article of his in
AA."which is no longer available on the web".
It is normal practice to give a reference: Author(s),
title, year, volume , #, page. Anyone interested can
trace it then- in public libraries , from the AA editor
or whatever.
Till such a reference is given it is justifiable to
suspect another one of Master Krueger's flights of fancy.
As simple as thet.
And comments:
Talk about how it is possible for a person,
filled with self-pity because he's been held accountable
for his own behavior, to misinterpret information offered
in good faith:
I don't have the magazine at hand, and this article reference omits
author
names, but this looks pretty close:
"Make inexpensive instrumentation microphones using the Panasonic
P9932
electret mike."
AUDIO AMATEUR 3/1984 [Jul 1984] (v.15#3) pg. 38
End of Quote from Krueger.

Harry Lavo said:
It's a little hard to believe that an otherwise professional citation
would
eliminate the author's names, Arny.

No response from Krueger:
The correspondence with the AudioXpress Customer Service follows:
I wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam,
is it possible for you to check who is the author and what is the
title of this article:
AUDIO AMATEUR 3/1984 [Jul 1984] (v.15#3) pg. 38 .
The local Public Libraries do not archive so far back. I have the
fragmentary note but am not sure what topic it is related to..
Many thanks for your help.
Ludovic Mirabel M.D.,MRCP(Ed),FRCP(C)
Reply::
"Dear Mr. Mirabel,

The information on page 38 of the 3/84 issue of Audio Amateur is
titled "Audio Aids" and is 3 pages of hints from readers.

Best Regards,

Sharon LeClair
Customer Service

So much for the "little article that he and a friend wrote".
He found a 1984 issue of AA. But he can not locate the one
containing his "little article".
There is only one thing worse than being a habitual liar. It is being
a stupid liar..

So...are you claiming his article couldn't have been published in a
readers hints section....or that it couldn't have been about a
phantom powered capsule mic?
Honestly Ludo... claims of liar are a bit absurd when
the Readers Hints section is the most probable place for
Arny to get something into print.

ScottW

Arny claims that he co-authored an "article" that was published in AA.
If it was indeed in a "hints from readers" section of the mag, and
presuming that the nature of "Hints from Readers" is as it sounds, this
hardly qualifies as "writing an article" that appeared in a magazine.
That would be much like claiming that one had an article published in a
newspaper when it was actually a "Letter to the Editor".

If anyone is serious about this, simply go to any decent sized library
and use one of the basic tools of research: the Reader's Guide to
Periodic Literature.