(Nousaine) wrote in message ...
(Daniel) wrote:

methodm, but no proof offered-- NONE -- that the effects are really
audible.

Again, you're barking up the wrong tree trying to start a fight with
me over cable. Never gonna happen. We're playing for the same team.

I'm not all that interested in "proof," though. Anecdotal experience
is more meaningful to me. I can't read those charts. Science bores me
to death.


Just because science does not interest you does not make it any less of a
discipline and it does not discount mathematic provability. The difference

between scientific data and anecdote is that anecdote is not data and
without
data, one can have no proof. One can spout anecdote like Joe Vialls at
http://geocities.com/vialls but that does not make it true.

r

I'm not saying anything is or isn't a discipline, nor do I discount
mathematic anything. I just don't care about it.

There's no way to start an argument with me over this. I cave
instantly. I imagine you're right with all your scientific hoo-hah.
I'm even *glad* there are people like you who care about and
comprehend all the science. There wouldn't be audio without science.
I'm just not one of those who understand or care to understand.

Again, no argument here (except, please, stop trying to drag me into
one). None exists.

OK but can you agree to be skeptical about amp/wire sound until some one, any
one, produces a replicable experiment that shows any nominally competent device
operating within its power limits has any 'sound' of its own in a normally
reverberant environment?

If so, then we are in total agreement. If not, then folks are rightly going to
ask for verification.

You keep trying to drag me into an argument and I don't want to argue.
I'm not in disagreement with either of you on the issue of wire.

The *only* thing I said about wire is that I don't believe one sounds
any better than any other. I'm *beyond* skeptical. I tried different
speaker wires, and found no difference, even while using a pair of
very revealing B&Ws.

I didn't say word one about amps.

All I asked -- and which you have edited out -- was for the OP, Steven
Sullivan, to tell us in which ads companies made "dubious claims." I
wanted more facts, and instead of providing any beyond the link to
taralabs.com, he assumed all sorts of things about me and what I do
and don't believe.

Here. Read the original text. In case you can't tell, what with all
these layers of quotes, what I said were "Care to name a few?" and
then the two paragraphs beginning "Um, nope..."

I thought it was interesting, and wanted to go through some of my
magazines and see what was "dubious." I had hoped SS would provide
some examples. He hasn't as of yet, or at least I haven't seen them. I
would still like to know.

Original text:
Steven Sullivan wrote in message ...
Daniel wrote:
Steven Sullivan wrote in message ...
Dennis Moore wrote:
So changing labels on a product, giving the same product to a
customer, who you have gone out of your way to mislead into
thinking is a different product when it is the same isn't sleight
of hand? Okay, what is it? It isn't truthful.

You're complaining about THIS, in the face of the rather
dubious claims routinely made in the advertisements
found every month in audio magazines?
Care to name a few?

I'll be happy to, when I have the magazines at hand, later.

But before we start, do you *seriously* believe that hi-fi advertising
does *not* routinely include dubious claims? Have you ever seen *any* ads
for high end cables? Do you believe the ad copy therein?

Um, nope...don't believe in cable. Not part of the cable cabal. I'm
happy with what comes in the box, especially after having a salesman
*swear* to me some cable (long name beginning with "C") he was going
to insert between my CD player and amp was going to be my "happily
ever after" cable.

SO not true. Couldn't tell the difference over Matrix 805s.

I don't even look at the cable ads. Though I do notice flat ones that
*look* cool, and I think that's a good enough reason as any to choose
a piece of equipment.


Heck, read the white papers at high-end cable mfr sites, which
presumably are more rigorously worded than ad copy.
For example

http://www.taralabs.com/white_papers...ce_Design1.asp

Lots of claims about audible effects, and even a claim about a testing
methodm, but no proof offered-- NONE -- that the effects are really
audible.