"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Arny Krueger"
Date: 6/22/2004 12:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
"S888Wheel" wrote in message
From: "Arny Krueger"
Date: 6/22/2004 10:02 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:
"S888Wheel" wrote in message
OK what are the differences in the mastering of the latest offerings
from Audio Fidelity between the CD layer and the SACD layer?
You mean that you can't hear them?
You mean you can?
I don't own any of them,
Obviously.
and see no compelling reason to invest in them or a
player for them.
Of course not. youv'e never really shown any interest in good music or
better
sound. Why change now?
Given that the history of SACD is technically so dreary
vis-a-vis gratuitous sonic differences, some interesting claims would
have
to be made to raise my personal interest in them above zero.
Your claim was that all SACDs had different masterings for the different
layers. So far, you have offered no evidence that the SACDs from Audio
Fidelity
have different masterings for the different layers. You really have no
idea do
you?
I just took a look at the Audio Fidelity web site, and it looks like
business as usual. IOW, a continuation of the long-standing practice of
separately mastered and therefore different-sounding SACD and CD layers.
I anything on the website that claims or even suggests that the mastering
was
any different for the different layers of any of their SACDs. If I missed
something feel free to cite it. Otherwise you have nothing but your own
posturing.
If
you have some contrary evidence, be sure to provide it.
You are the one claiming the different layers were mastered differently
you
prove your assertion.
As you well know Scott, Steve Hoffman is the mastering engineer of all the
AF SACDs and he has said on his website that he uses a *split feed* coming
out of the mastering console which feeds *two* different A/D converters. So,
as Steven Sullivan so succinctly put it, "A mastering chain that bifurcates
at the A/D stage is no longer the same chain." Any comparisons between the
two layers have to take this into account and it then becomes quite
difficult to pin the differences down to the individual formats.
I believe he uses the Meitner stuff for SACD but I am not sure what
converter he uses for the 4416 layer.
Over the last months I have invited over 20 self-proclaimed audiophiles to
bring their hi-res players to my home and record the analog output from
these players to my DAW at 16/44.1kHz inorder to perform comparative
listening tests.
Most of the discs that we have used for these a/b tests have been good old
classics from the analog era remastered again for SACD, DVD-A or vinyl.
Among these discs were some AF Creedence SACDs as well.
My recording and playback equipment consists of
DAW with a LynxTwo soundcard
NAD amplification
B&W Nautilus 805 speakers
Sennheiser 650 headphones.
The equipment that we have tested so far a
Digital:
Sony DVP-NS900V
Denon 2900
Pioneer DV-868
Philips DV-963SA
Linn Unidisk 1.1
Analog:
VPI Scout w/ Shure V15VxMR
Thorens TD-850 w/Ortofon 540 MK. II
both through a Gram Amp 2 Special Edition phono preamp
The conclusion to all of these tests have been consistent:
When level-matched, *no one* has yet been able to reliably tell the original
from the copy.
I have heard audiophiles talk about the "day and night" differences between
Redbook and SACD/DVD-A but they simply do not manifest themselves on my
equipment and the ears that have listened.
Steve Hoffman has said the following:
"The boundaries of Digital PCM have already been pushed to their limit if I
play back a master tape vs. the PCM copy and hear things like echo fall off
on the digital. If they sounded the same in an A/B all our problems would be
over and my job would be so much easier."
In our testing we tried hard to listen for these lost echo trails and other
subtleties but failed to notice them.
Will I continue to buy hi-res / vinyl after this? Yes, for two reasons:
1. More care seems to be put into the mastering of most of the SACD/DVD-A
releases and the price is about the same and
2. I am a self-confessed vinyl fetichist.
But I simply cannot hear any magic from 2-channel hi-res / vinyl that does
not translate well to Redbook under semi-controlled listening tests.
Thom