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From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 6/7/2004 11:28 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: k.net

"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 6/7/2004 4:39 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: .net

"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 6/6/2004 3:33 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t

"Powell" wrote in message
...

"Michael McKelvy" wrote

Some time ago I was given much grief for positing the
idea that the Universe could never have not existed,
(an idea that seems fairly obvious to me).

"not existed"... please define existence?

That which exists.

Do you mean
as in universal order or as life seperate from organic
form?

As in existing.

The last paragraph reads: "So when did time begin?
Science does not have a conclusive answer yet, but
at least two testable theories, plausibly hold
that the universe existed before the Big Bang.

You don't like the concept of the lotus flower (universe)
which grows out of Vishnu's navel, I take it ?

You would be correct in that assumption.

I don't offer this as proof of my view, simply proof that
the Big Bang as the beginning of the Universe is not a
universally held view as some of you would have had
me believe.

It still looks like all things point to God (thought or idea
that transcends all thinking/universal archetype).

Not to me. It simply looks as though existence has always existed.

Oh, it looks that way to you. Must be true. To think, I have been
wasting
my
time paying attention to cutting edge physics when you had the answer.

You do
realize you just used flat earth logic do you not?

No I used logic. Nothing can't suddenly burst into everything.

That is not logic that is a premise, an axiom. It is clearly a flawed one
given
that it flies in the face of empirical evidence that shows something can
come
from nothing with no known mechanism so long as it adds up to zero. You
are
just chasing your tail on this subject. How you cannot see that your
opinions
run against the that of the body of theoretical physicistsand how you
cannot
see that is a big red flag is beyond me.

You are assuming that I care, I don't. I'm not afraid or embarrassed to say
the Emperor has no clothes. Zero is zero, nothing is nothing, in every
dimension. If there were nothing, there would have been no dimensions
either.

You have been lead to water. You drowned. Not my problem.