dave weil wrote:
On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 13:29:14 -0400, "Powell"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote

Please consider the whole system. You got speakers
with frequency response starting at DC or a 1 Hz?

You got speakers with a FR that includes 6hz?

Nobody seems to have understood what I said about the 12 dB/octave rise in
response, BELOW a certain critical frequency.

It's interesting to note that some of the subwoofer
manufacture are designing down to this low level
like: Bag End 8 Hz, Definitive Tech. 11 Hz, Linn 2 Hz,
Paragon 11 Hz, Thiel 10 Hz, California Audio 9 Hz
and Audio Physic 10 Hz.

Experience subwoofer builders are probably laughing. No serious players in
the list, no not one.

You only list one manufacturer who goes "down to
this level".

True, but all are well below what is considered
to be ideal/theoretical limits (20 Hz) of audio
perception.

Has anyone really said that?

Yes, Powell did.

I think that there's probably something
to be said for the fact that sub 20hz is the foundation of music and
that, for a system that can reproduce those frequencies at
*meaningful* levels, it wouldn't be hard *at all* to tell between
music with and music without that content.

Well sub-20 Hz seems pretty tame. How about sub 6 Hz?

Hell, my old Cornwalls
could reproduce 20 hz pretty handily, even though it was only rated to
something like 36 hz. I know because I could hear a 20 hz test tone.

Probably mostly doubling and/or tripling. You heard *something*, but was it
20 Hz, or was it one or more harmonics? Tell us about your measurement
mics, Weil. Tell us about your analytical equipment.

Of course, you really had to struggle to hear it when it was on its
own (I don't remember how many dB it was down, but it was down
considerably - still it was audible).

Remember the Fletcher-Munson curves.

The point I'm trying to make with Arnold, and I suspect that he's
going to play some serious "debating trade" games as usual, is that he
has to prove that the removal of a 6 hz component would be reliably
detectable in a dbt of musical programming, and he hasn't shown any
evidence of that.

That would be posturing. As long as there is musical programming like the
1812, it's a slam dunk.

I'd also have to wonder if a system that could probably reproduce 6 hz
pretty handily, like Nousaine or the Devil's system could show such
reliability.

Devil's system is imaginary, Nousaine's is real. Nousaine's would take
Devil's imaginary system to the cleaners, no sweat. That the Devel even
brags about what he has shows how limited even his wildest imagings are.

Or maybe those guys are falling back on the ole
subjective "But I can hear the difference".

Wrong. The proper statement when it comes to infrasonics is: "I can perceive
the difference".

That would be cool with me - they just have to admit it.

Obviously Weil, you've never really been around when a large system does its
stuff.