[Mr.T]

"isw" wrote in message
...
What I'm saying is what I already said: if you don't use the proper
playback EQ, you don't stand much chance of hearing what the producer
intended you to hear -- you're just guessing.

Or even if you do, considering all the other factors you prefer to ignore.

You use proper RIAA EQ to "cancel" the effects of the vinyl, to the
greatest extent possible. Afterthat, you can tweak the sound to your
taste, if you want to.

We weren't talking RIAA originally, so why change the subject anyway.

Production EQ is part of the process of *creating music*, if you will.
Cutting EQ is just attempting to correct for a poor transfer medium --
the vinyl record. Both have an effect on the sound, but their intentions
are very different. Assuming you want to hear it as the producer
intended, you have to deal properly with the cutting EQ. You have no
clue what the production EQ was.

Or what the monitor speakers and studio acoustics were like.

IF
what you want is the best possible recreation of what was on that
master
tape (so you hear what the producer heard), then you need to apply the
proper playback EQ to the signal.

What the producer heard live, or on his monitoring system? I can assure
you
they are different. I can also assure you that YOU will not hear either
case
just by using the nominal playback EQ.

On his monitors, of course. There's no possibility of reaching back
before that. But to even get close, you have to deal properly with the
cutting EQ, which is -- sort of -- the "inverse" of the playback EQ.

What a fallacy. It's a very good starting point, *when you know what it is*,
that's all.

Within the frequency range it's capable of handling, a CD can provide
very nearly perfectly flat response, with negligible distortion and
added noise. No commercial analog method can even get close to its
performance.

Seems we agree on something then. You *still* have to guess what the
producer heard though.

Again: The best you can possibly hope for, is to hear something close to
what the producer heard *from his monitors*. The best chance you have
for doing that is to "cancel out" as much of the vinyl-caused damage as
possible. To accomplish that, you have to have the proper playback EQ.

This is where we still disagree. The sound you will hear is not remotely
close to what the producer heard, just because you use RIAA or any other
standard EQ.

Have you
ever tried to check a phono preamp for "RIAA accuracy" using a
professional test record? I have. It's almost impossible.

Why on earth would you check a phono pre-amp with a test record? I check
those with a spectrum analyser. Test records are for checking
turntables/cartridges.

If your playback EQ does not include cartridge/groove mechanical
effects, and specific cartridge response (and effects), then you're
probably not very close. Using a test record for a signal source and
including the entire cartridge in the signal path is the *only way* you
can possibly do that.

You should read what I wrote, but at least you are now admitting you are NOT
checking the phono *pre-amp* then, and were thus incorrect in saying so.

You obviously need to learn good measurement practice.

Well, if nearly forty years as a designer/manager in broadcasting and
related industries hasn't done it, I'm afraid it's never going to happen.

Yes some people never learn.

In fact what you are really doing is to adjust the Pre-amp EQ to
compensate
for your cartridge response, so it matches the test record. Now *That's*
very close to what I'm suggesting all along, and what YOU are
disagreeing
with!!

I think there was some miscommunication, then, because THAT IS EXACTLY
WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

It seems that we have been vehemently agreeing with each other.

It seems you fail to read what is written, and mean things you do not write
correctly then.

MrT.