Fella wrote:
ScottW wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...

Paul B wrote:


Paul B. again

The average is supposed to be 1dB which is fairly coarse when stepping
through volume but I wouldn't care to state I could hear even that
little
in
a DB test!

Your suggestion was investigated by L.Greenhill, Stereo Review, Aug.
1983,p.51. Using ABX methodology he found that most of his panel
were unable to distinguish 1,75db difference between the volumes
produced by a thick and a thin cable *when music was used as a signal*
Once again: to follow Sean Olive's investigation; "difference" appears
to be the wrong question to ask if one wants to prove,* for once* that
people can distinguish components. "Which one do you like better?"
(blinded-why not?) is a much better bet. But of course that sounds too
human and not "scientific" enough
Ludovic Mirabel
If this message appears twice in some servers I apologise. Google
accepted it yesterday but failed to post it.


It was a lie the first time you posted it and remains a lie.

ScottW

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Fella says:
How do you know that what Ludovic says is a lie?

Ludovic, can you substantiate this? Can you, for instance, scan those
pages of strereo review and post them somewhere?

Thank you. I believe that you are genuineinely concerned about truth.
Here is Greenhill's ABX cable test complete. If you want the
whole article go to your Public Library. I don't have the skills (or
patience) to scan a ten page article to google acceptable size, The
table was pain in the neck enough,
There were 15 repeat tests in each line. The numbers stand for the
correct responses (hits) of the panelist A,B, C...etc). "Levels
matched" means that Greenhill adjusted levels ie. volumes where
necessary to compensate for the loss through the thinner cable.
Monster and 16 ga cable were of equal diameter.
Here is Greenhill's table. If it is confusing blame Google. I tried
to arrange it cleanly but could not do any better than this.
SUBJECTS: A B C D E F G H I J K
Test1: Monster vs. 24 g. wire,Pink noise
15 14 15 15 15 15 15 15 15 15 15
2. Same but levels matched
9 13 7 10 na. 8 9 6 14 12
12
3. Monster vs. 16 gauge zipcord, Pink noise
13 7 10 7 11 12 9 9 11 12
7
4.. 16 ga vs. 24 ga., Pink noise
15 15 na. 14 15 na 15 14 15 15 15

5. Monster vs. 16ga., choral music
4 6 11 8 9 5 5 7 6
10 10
6. Monster vs. 24ga, choral music
14 7 15 10 8 10 6 10 11 12
10
______________________________________________
% of "hits" in the total of 6 tests 90 tries:
67. 50 40 33 40 40 33 33 50? 83 50


Note the excellent results everybody had with pink noise and abysmal
result with music in test 6. The thicker, 16 gauge Monster conducted
music louder by 1,75 db to the speaker.
I with my old ears have no problem hearing i db difference between rt.
and lt, side. (I have a stepped volume knob on my preamp). The image
shifts immediately away from the centre. Note that Pinkerton in his
offer of a prize for distinguishing cables wants 0,05db match.
To forestall the inevitable silly comment I'll reprint my own old
text:" All the panelists did well comparing uneven diameter cables
when pink noise was played to them. The scores were much worse when
music was used as a signal and became awful when
similar diameters were used. Oddly I'm interested in music not pink
noise. "
I am not going to waste time arguing with Sullivan. His MO. is to say
that he puts you in his killfile when he has to clam up for lack of an
answer. I don't participate in discussions of that kind. And in this
particular case I honestly can not see through his verbiage what
exactly he's trying to say.
My answer to Arny is: if Greenhill is out-of-date where on earth are
the more up to date professional journal acceptable studies? You have
my word that I would read them as openmindedly as possible? In
particular the POSITIVE ones if they ever appear. You'll have a
convert.
But even before that I want to say something to you. I used to argue
furiously throughout my professional life about serioous life and death
matters and then have coffee with my opponent. It never as much as
occurred to anybody to call the other side "liars". Why on earth in the
silly half-informed web debates would one lie to win an argument about
cables or something similar? The web seems to have become a refuge of
all the frustrated sociopaths. I met the kind in my stormy political
youth and they still scare me.
That's why I want to take this opportunity to thank Arny for his
honesty in his text in this thread and - can an immigrant use an
old-fashioned English word- gentlemanliness. I apologise for thinking
that he's become unable to rise above the feelings of irrational
hostility to anyone disagreeeing with him. It is a pleasant surprise-
if imitated it would make the web a much saner place.
I'll deal with Scottie when I can bring myself to it. Right now the
stomach is churning at the very thought,
Regards Ludovic Mirabel
..