A sound recording engineer is a man who for his daily bread or an
habitual part of his daily bread makes sound recordings. He is a
professional. It doesn't matter whether he works on a team or alone.
Ownership of copyright is irrelevant. Ownership of machinery is
irrelevant.

Someone who records his church choir for free and then claims the money
they didn't pay a professional, for a job they probably didn't want
done in the first instance (1), makes him a professional is a
professional fool; this person is no more than a hobbyist. Arny Krueger
fits this category.

The person who puts together the artists and venue and pays the
salaries is the producer. He usually doesn't own anything either, being
a salaried employee or freelance for hire to the distributor, the
record company. He too is a professional, not to be confused with a
hobbyist going along to his pre-existing church choir and recording
them.

These are pretty standard definitions in great many industries.

Iain Churches, who has a veriable track record as a professional sound
recordist, fits the first category. He is a professional in sound
recording.

Arny Krueger fits this the second category of a hobbyist. It is
significant that Krueger tries to inflate his standing by denigrating a
professional. A real professional would never in a million do anything
that silly.

HTH.

Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
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containing vital gems of wisdom"
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(1) ... for a job they probably didn't want done in the first instance!
We all know amateur idiots who insist on photographing or recording
events whether the victims want it or not. To this class of
insensitive, bullying hobbyist a church choir, full of Christians too
charitable to put him back in his box must seem a godsent.

Arny Krueger wrote:
"Iain Churches" wrote in message
...

"John Atkinson" wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message
oups.com...
Mr Arny Krueger describes himself on audiophile newsgroups as...
a sound recording engineer.

A job he does for his church, not an occupation.

Except that on r.a.p. a few months back. Arny Krueger did indeed
claim that this actviity qualified him as a "professional" recording
engineer, due to the cash value of the work he donated to his
church free of charge.

Firstly, even by Mr.Kruger's own twisted logic, his statement is
nonsense.

AFAIK, its a fabrication. I sure can't find anything that looks like it.

Secondly. Have you heard any of Arny's recordings???
Professional is not a word that comes to mind.

In fact nobody has ever heard any of Iain's recordings because there are
none. All of the recordings that Iain has taken credit for had most of the
work done on them by others. He has no legal rights to them at all. Whatever
small contribution he did make to them was performed using equipment,
artists, and venues that were obtained by others and at the expense of
others.

It's my understanding that in contrast, John Atkinson has actually made some
recordings of note. He has personally lined up artists, venues, and
equipment. Atkinson, at least some of the time personally selected, obtained
and set up the equipment, loaded and unloaded recording media of his
personal choice, was the sole technician who personally placed, adjusted,
and started and stopped the equipment.

AFAIK Atkinson has edited at least some (I think all) of his recordings
himself using editing facilities that he personally selected and/or owned,
personally mastered some or all of the recordings, and on occasion delivered
the masters for reproduction by subcontractors that he personally selected
and made the arrangements for.

There's a good chance that Atkinson even owns the copyrights to some of his
recordings, which are thus truely his.

Note that while I've explained these differences to Iain before on several
occasions, he continues to act like they don't exist. In short, he's either
BSing, or he's seriously delusional.

Iain is like I guy who slaps fenders on Jeeps in the Chrysler plant about 6
miles from my house, and tells his friends that he makes cars from start to
finish.

In contrast, there are people all over Detroit who have little garages of no
note or notice, who still build cars from bolts, nuts, raw sheet metal, mill
the metal parts, etc. Their cars may lack some refinements as compared to a
new Jeep Grand Cheokee or Dodge Magnum, but they can honestly take credit
for the finished product.