Lionel wrote:
wrote:
Lionel wrote:

http://medias.lemonde.fr/mmpub/edt/d...811_us0905.pdf



Cher Lionel. thank you for giving publicity in this audio forum to
a long report about torture in Iraq issued by an U.S. Human Rights
group resident in New York next reprinted by Le Monde.

First error : Human Rights Watch is an international
organization.
http://www.hrw.org/about/whoweare.html

The facts are indeed shameful. No doubt you noted that they were
first revealed by American soldiers in Iraq

That's true.

and then pursued in the
American military courts.

LOL ! :-(
Page 22 of the report :
"It's unjust to hold only lower-ranking soldiers accountable
for something that is so clearly, at a minimum, an officer
corps problem, and probably a combination with the executive
branch of government.
It's almost infuriating to me. It is infuriating to me that
officers are not lined up to accept responsibility for what
happened."


You may have heard also that the first one of
those accused of atrocities Pte England is awaiting her sentence.
To redress the balance

Which balance are you talking about ?
What would have you written hereafter if I was German ?

I don't know what are your sins, Ludo, but the most bigot of
our readers have surely appreciated your little seance of
self-lashing. :-)

I fail to follow the logic or the sense

you may now tell us how many of the
Foreign Legion and other French Army members participating in the war
in Algeria were sued and sentenced in a French military court. I do
remember accusations by J.P. Sartre and others
of widespread torture of Algerian militants by the French troops in
that war.

Forget the Foreign Legion... what they have done was
retaliation "only".
In Algeria the torture was very well organized with
professional, etc... 99.99% of the common soldiers didn't
know anything about it.

Veuillez accepter mes sentiments... etc. Ludovic Mirabel


I just hope for you that you have more respect for audio
than for history.

I'm reluctant to continue this discussion that you saw fit,
inappropriately, to begin in an audio forum.

You justify the French Army's never punished atrocities in
the Algerian war because they were "reprisals"and "retaliation"
Of course the Algerians said that they were only retaliating and the
French said etc. etc.
All the atrocities in the recent atrocious European history were just
"reprisals". When the Nazis invaded Tschechoslovakia it was just
"reprisals" for the supposed persecution of Sudeten Germans. Ditto
in Poland. Ditto when they started the Holocaust. Just a 'reprisal"
for the Jews starting the war against peace-loving Germany Ditto when
they massacred the village of Oradour in your country- reprisals for
the (very modest) French nonPetainist resistance.
And Lenin started the Red terror as a "reprisal" and so on and so
on.
Atrocity is still an atrocity whether you call it retaliation or not.
And letting the perpetrators scot- free is a parody of morality even if
it happens in France. So plese do no get on a high moral antitorture
stand- except when ut is French.
I admire the unparalled French contribution to civilization. But I'm
afraid that many in the E.U. are giving vent to unpleasant
Antiamericanism forgetting that without U.S. (with all its faults)
there would have been either a swastika or a Red Star beaming from the
Eiffel Tower. And where would the Kosovo and Bosnian Moslems be if they
waited for their E.U. neighbours to help them?
Your compulsion to post this in an audio forum is one typical
manifestation of the Western European resentment (mixed with envy) of
U.S.
Ludovic Mirabel