Mark D. Zacharias wrote:

Arny Krueger wrote:

Mark D. Zacharias wrote:

Many built-in DAC's are cheap, cheap, cheap.

Despite their low prices, they are often up to the task
at hand. Here
are the measured performance specs for the DAC in a $39
DVD player -
a Apex AD 1201:

Frequency response (from 40 Hz to 15 kHz), dB:
+0.07, -0.05
Noise level, dB (A): -95.2
Dynamic range, dB (A): 95.0
THD, %: 0.0012
IMD, %: 0.002
Stereo crosstalk, dB:-92.9

A digital output going
to a competently designed DAC will probably sound
noticeably better
than many all-in-one units.

Once performance achives levels that can now be achieved
quite
inexpensively, there is no possible audible advantage to
further
improvements, in the context of the true meaning of high
fidelity.

I appreciate that Arny, but my main point was that these
is still a
chance that a quality piece will sound better than a piece
of crap,
and the guys I was at odds with discounted this
possibility 100%.

The statement you were responding to said:

"Conventional wisdom is that outboard DAC's in general are a
bad idea
since they can't improve on the perfromance of the one
inside your CD
player or DVD player."

I see two sets of hedge words, so I can't agree with the
100.00% number.

The JUNK that I deal with on a daily basis cannot be
expected to hold
up to the highest standards in EVERY case.

Given that my AD 1201 self-destructed while sitting boxed up
on the shelf, your choice of words "...cannot be expected to
hold up..." seems to be particularly relevant. ;-)

That's simply not even
logical to expect. Never mind the "state of the art" in
semiconductor
design for the moment. Do you believe that EVERY no-name
manufacturer
in China ALWAYS designs their chips etc to the highest, or
even to
ordinary standards?

Nope, but I don't see any claims about anything being 100%
any particular way.

I sadly often encounter counterfeit semis instead of the
original
parts I'm looking for. What if some of the chips in these
pieces of
junk are counterfeits (which by the way some almost
certainly are) ?
Will they stand up to the "they all sound the same" test?

Probably not, because there are still cheap DACs that don't
sound so good. They are easy to find in CD & DVD readers
and burners.