On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:01:52 -0400, "Sugarite"
wrote:

Tube saturation coloration? I love it when people don't have a clue
what
they are talking about... :-(

Guess that makes you a narcisist. Ask any mastering engineer how tube
saturation affects sound.

Well, when I use a tube (or transistor for that matter) in anything other
than a guitar amplifier, I make damn sure that it doesn't saturate. If the
mastering engineer in question is using a tube stage which is designed
to saturate (and cause distortion), then that is an effect, NOT
amplification (and a very dubious practice, IMO). A true preamp should
NEVER run its amplifying devices anywhere near that point.

Actually, that's always been the reason that I *like* tube preamps,
because they generally have very high overload margins and get nowhere
*near* saturation! I've no idea where this clown has got hold of a
tube preamp which *typically* goes into saturation - maybe he runs it
off a PP3? :-)

This would be an issue of semantics. I'm of the opinion that tube
saturation doesn't suddenly kick in once the power levels reach a certain
proportion of tolerance, and that even at low levels the effect is present.

Your opinion is noted. Unfortunately, it doesn't agree with measured
reality.

If what I'm hearing at low levels isn't a result of the same properties that
are influencing the sound near full saturation, then I'm not sure I care.
My point was that tubes are not a benign audio component at any output
level.

Depends what you mean. No active device is 'perfect', but for small
signal use, almost any BJT, FET, or tube (given a decent rail voltage)
will provide linearity which is *way* better than is required for
*audible* transparency.

To me, it sounds as though you believe that tubes intristically cause
coloration - a few minutes with a proper model and a SPICE simulator
will quickly set you straight. Better yet, listen to some correctly
designed and built gear...

Engineering excellence doesn't seem to be his bag...............

If you mean that I couldn't fix a tube amp to save my life, you're right.
What I can do is hear the difference between different brands and/or
vintages of the same tube in the same amp. But hey, if you've got the fancy
diagnostic gear that says tubes don't color sound then I guess I'm trumped.
Funny how I keep running into all these defective tubes that *all sound
distinctly different at any output level*.

Clearly, you have either a defective amplifier, or a vivid
imagination! Of course, you may have both...............

If you mean audio engineering, I know enough to use tubes for coloration
effects, and to not use a tube amp for monitoring, instead to go the
"accuracy" route to better appreciate how the mix will sound on a variety of
gear, rather than just my own system which is tailored to my preferences.
On this matter I am not alone. I think I'll stick with the engineering
practices of the last 25 years rather than blindly follow the numbers
generated by a simulation gadget.

The engineering practices of the last 50 years suggest that you are
incorrect.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering