dave weil wrote:
On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 15:53:00 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 05 Oct 2003 12:10:29 GMT, trotsky wrote:



dave weil wrote:


On Sat, 4 Oct 2003 16:51:25 -0400, "Bob Morein"
wrote:




But in the last sentence of your post, you imply that Greg wanted the
speakers back.


No, I said that I boxed the speakers up and was waiting for him to
pick them up.


Jeez, dave, why do you even give this loser the time of day? He's just
trying to push your buttons, and has no interest in what you really have
to say.


He's not the only one.



That sounds like a reference to me, which is completely disingenuous.
I've been on the level since the get go, and you have yet to refute a
single thing I've said.


Geez, Greg, you *are* perceptive.

Let me just relate a couple of instances of you not "paying
attention".

You said that you thought that my "third part" would only be talking
about specific music.

Here's what I wrote in my initial segment as far as how I invisioned
the process going:

"In part 2, I'll be talking about specific music and how I perceive
the speaker when playing those specific pieces. This has gone on too
long already. Hopefully I'll get this part sent by Tuesday at the
latest.

I wanted to get this out fairly quickly and I'm actually writing this
before I get the chance to compare with the Cornwalls and the
Allisons. That will come in part 3 later in the week. Who knows, I
might modify some of my impressions when I get the chance to do that.
The problem has been one of time for me. I've been working sort of day
on day off in the last week and I haven't been able to string a couple
of days off together until now".

Regardess of the numbering sequence, it was clear that there was going
to be basically three portions of the process.


And your beef to my responding after the third part was what, exactly?


The first was a very
preliminary introduction to the speakers, without any idea that this
period would do anything other than giving me the first glimpse into
their character. There was a practical reason for this - it's that you
shipped the stands separately and I wasn't able to immediately set
them up to the standards that they would enjoy during the evaluation.
Actually, the Allisons were probably just as good as stands and I
probably could have just used them.

The second would be an extensive period of listening SOLELY to the
speakers, at which time I might draw on my years of listening to
numerous systems over the year, and the third period DIRECTLY
comparing in as close to real time as possible the Europas with two
speakers that I had in house.

I WAS VERY CLEAR that plugging the Cornwalls and the Allisons *might*
change what I had written previously.

Later, I wrote this modification of the initial segment:


I also used the Fisher X202 tube integrated amp and I
will mention it specifically when applicable.

I also had available a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls, which are the
speakers normally in this system and a pair of Allison CD8s from the
bedroom. The Cornwalls are a 3 way large horn driven system with
compression horn drivers for the midrange and tweeters and a 15 in.
woofer in a large cabinet. Specs and graphs for the speakers can be
found he


Just to make things clear, this should probably be future tense. At
the time I started the review, I was going to write it as a single
review. It quickly became clear that a. my natural wordiness was
inflating the review to mammoth proportions (no editor you know) and
b. it was going to be a few more days before I could complete the
proceedings. So I've split the sessions up. I didn't bother to go back
and chage the tense of these verbs. None of this has actually happened
yet.

I made it CLEAR that I hadn't done a direct comparison yet.


You know, dave, I should give credit where credit is due: at least you
had some sort of game plan, but the language you used was still a problem.



As to the Merlin issue, let's REVISIT my comments about them:

"One revalatory experience for me listening to my Merlin EXP3s at my
previous address (in a much larger space of course) was playing Billie
Holliday's Song for Disingue Lovers (Classic Records). In that space
and on those speakers, Billie and her accompaniment was fully formed
and it REALLY did approach real "liveness" for me (an "in-the-room"
quality). There was an "electrostatic" quality coming out of those
rather large box speakers. Holliday's voice was at just about the
correct height and placed a little left and well forward of the drums.
All of the instrumentation seemed to be where it should without having
that "imaged" quality - they seemed to occupy a space, not a point.
Unfortunately, this isn't the case with the Europas. I have a feeling
that it's mainly influenced by the room - yet, I haven't seen this
much disparity with other things I have listened to. In the case of
the Europas, Holliday's voice appears to be coming directly out of the
left speaker. This has two problems - first, she's now a dwarf.
Second, your attention is drawn to the speaker instead of a
"disembodied" voice standing in free space. Another problem is that
she's further left than I remember. Other albums have kept the voices
closer to what I remember from other rooms, other systems (I'm
speaking especially of things that I've heard over a 10 - 20 year span
in as many as 10 different home listening rooms). I really don't know
why *this* album is so different. I'll have to listen to it again with
the Cornwalls to see if I get the same sort of displacement issues in
this room".

You wrote: You want to compare them to Merlins? That's fine too, if
you can put it in the context of relative size, price, and room
interaction from different rooms.

Except for price (which I've mentioned a few times on this forum, but
maybe I should have mentioned it again, but I think it's a minor
point),


dave, let's just stop this charade. Calling the price of an audio
component a "minor point" shows how utterly, utterly, utterly clueless
you are about what's going on here, as also evidence by your thinking
that "lean bass" isn't a derogatory description, as also evidenced by
your thinking that only speakers covering the entire limits of human
hearing are neutral. I made a mistake, I'll admit it: I had no idea you
wouldn't even have a glimmer, a scintilla, of what the lexicon of audio
description are. There are certain words, terms, and concepts that are
taken as givens, and you seem to be privy to none of these. It doesn't
matter how sincere your efforts have been, the language simply isn't
there to give anything close to an idea of how the speakers sound.



I *did* address all of those issues. I also mentioned the
possibility that it might be the room and not the speakers as I
addressed the possibility that I'd find the same issues with the
Cornwalls.

This is why I accuse you of not paying attention and not really
reading what I wrote and instead imposing your own agenda into the
process.

Yep, as long as I wasn't too critical, it was a GREAT review. Shame
you didn't wait until the end to find out whether some of the things
that I was speculating on were or weren't applicable...


dave, you're brain is running a little lean. And I mean that in a good way.