It is obvious from the post below that Phil Allison
has nothing worthwhile to offer the group
or to the original poster, so we could wish Allison to please **** off,
he ain't wanted here now, and he ain't ever been wanted here.
The newbies here ought to realise that Phil Allison is the most
hate ridden and foul mouthed poster here on the Internet,
and replying in any detail to him will often bring a tirade of
insults, utterly undeserving. Please do not respond to his posts,
unless you enjoy being butchered.
He is like the teacher who beats up his students for their ignorance.
He believes the Net is only for those who know it all like him,
which of course is untrue, since he is a poseur elitist.
Please notice how he cut my post to ribbons during his reply to me,
and fails to engage in any meaningful response.
In case anyone was led astray by Allison's BS on toroidals,
then please consider the following points.
I don't believe the real situation with custom winders and DIY hobbyists
is that much different in europe or the US etc, compared to what it is here in
Oz.
I have tried in vain to get any commercial winder like Harbuch at Hornsby
in Sydney, or Tortech to be able to produce a decent
toroidal tranny suited specifically for a tube bass amp
in a time frame of 30 minutes as you suggest, and at a competive price
compared to Plitron who makes special audio toroidals of good quality, or
Hammond who makes
E&I lam types, some of which are ideal for bass amp use.
Any non standard transformer wound to my exacting specs from these
winders would cost lots more than any standard item of the same weight and
turns/labour.
Both the above companies have quoted me absurd prices for what I wanted,
and Harbuch plain refused to quote when I stipulated the turns/volt ratio
I wanted for a mains tranny.
Harbuch once offered two outputs and a mains tranny, and a choke for aud $ 1,200
back in 1995, as a kit of the four iron wound items, to suit a pair of 25 watt
UL channels.
Tortech quoted me aud $1,600 for the same thing in 1995, and they said they
couldn't do
a fine wired audio toroid, and that they'd have to import them from a company in
NZ,
which now appears to have dissappeared.
Other companies were as expensive, or would take forever to do the order,
so I gave up and have wound all my own trannies for my amps ever since.
I shudder to think what these companies would quote me now, or what
quality they would try to dump on me.
I believe it is false economy to ask such supposedly specialist winders to
ever wind anything for me, and if I wanted to use toroidal OPTs, i'd save up
and go to Plitron.
The material costs are less than 10% of the above prices mentioned for the iron
wound components.
A 5 Kg tranny has material costs of aud $9 per Kg, so $45 total, which is what I
would have to pay,
but these companies buy cheaper by the tonne, not by the Kg, like I have to.
So for 30 Kgs of trannies, enough iron for a stereo 50-50, I pay $270 for
material,
and I don't spend a cent on unhelpful "specialists."
There is no way that stock standard mains trannies from Dick Smith Electronics,
Altronics, or Jaycar, ( all companies like the us's Radio Shack ) constitute
great quality even for mains use.
AFAIK, these are all sourced from some cheapo asian factory.
All the ones I have tried to use have been too noisy for hi-fi.
It would be impossible to use any of their stocks of mains trannies for a PP
tube bass amp.
The original poster was implying his intention was to
buy a ready stock standard mains tranny for bass in a tube amp.
The only possible way a mains tranny could be used for a bass amp
would be with transistors or mosfets transformer coupled.
We have argued all this before at aus.hi-fi, and I assume its all in the
archives what was said.
But our questioner here is wanting to use tubes, not solid state.
The lower voltages used with SS does allow toroidal mains trannies to be used as
audio output trannies.
The mains primary is not used in this case.
Nearly all the commercial mains toroidals I have tried to use have been
too noisy to use for hi-fi amps, because the tape wound
insulation allows some tiny amount of vibration between layers of windings,
especially with rectifiers connected,
and unless they are thoroughly vacuum impregnated with varnish and baked,
and preferably potted, they are all but useless engineering to me.
Allison's post fails dismally to take into account many of the technical issues
raised in mine,
such as core saturation and turn numbers and it seems you lack much knowledge on
transformers.
My advice to Allison is that he please ****s off to where he belongs, in a sewer
with all the other
slime, ooze, and cockroaches, and he shouldn't come out unless he can restrain
himself
from needlessly filling pages with insult which prooves his dullness,
lack of concern for others, and general dipleasure and disrespect for all those
around him.
Until he shows respect, and behaves with courtesy at all times,
and recommences his medication program,
Then he should stay away from here.
Patrick Turner.
Phil Allison wrote:
"Patrick Turner" = incorrigible menace to usenet users
Chris Berry wrote:
Can anyone point me in a good direction to find this info?
There is a major problem about trying to use toroidal mains trannies for
PP audio amps.
** No-one ever suggested that the OP use a mains transformer for a tube
bass amp.
The suggestion was that a toroidal tranny wound for the job could be used
to save weight.
If you live in a 110v mains area,
** The OP lives in Europe.
( snip all Turneroid's irrelevant stuff relating to using a mains tranny)
The frequency response of toroidal opts, even mains types
is usually good enough to get to maybe 100 kHz easily.
** This is the only info the OP wanted confirmed.
Hooray !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, to sum up, there is no way you can use a mains tranny for
a bass amp, even though you won't need bandwidth above 2 kHz.
** A custom wound toroidal suited to the job of an OT is no problem to get
made.
( snip loads of the Turneroid's boring, self opinionated crap)
I have nothing on Toroidal designs,
** Since RDH4 does not describe them the Turneroid ****head is lost for
info.
because to wind one requires
a special machine,
** So you use someone who ****ing owns one - moron.
and arranging the taps and many winding sections
is a PITA with a toroidal,
** Says a congenital liar who has never seen one being made.
plus the core is very prone to
DC offset currents due to imbalance in the DC flow in each half of the PP
primary.
** So you trim the bias from time to time - no problem for a home brew
amp.
Then there is mounting and varnishing,
** Hey ****head - toroidals use polyester wrap, have done for decades.
and its all too much bother,
** For an 80 year old autistic moron - yes.
OTOH professional transformer winders have no problem - likely knock one
out for you in 30 minutes.
.............. Phil
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