Dave Weil wrote:


On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 10:11:47 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 01:26:41 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:28:55 -0700, "Michael Mckelvy"
wrote:

People had been to India prior to Columbus, so I think it's fair to
asuume
he knew he wasn't there when he wound up in the West Indies.

Damn, do you seem to be dumb. It doesn't matter that people had been
to India before. OF course, people had been to India before. That's
why he was looking for a new route.

Yes, and everyone knows this, still some people think he didn't know he
hadn't gotten there and that the Natives of the W. Indies were East
Indians.

And you were bragging about how smart you are. Reread what you
originally wrote and get back to me.

Want to blame this on "proofreading"?

Blame what? A poorly constructed sentence?

Wrong again. Poor logic. You said (paraphrased)

Because people had already been to India, you can assume that Columbus
knew he wasn't there.

No you *can't* assume that.

Here's an entry from his journal:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/columbus1.html

Sunday, 21 October. At 10 o'clock, we arrived at a cape of the island,
and anchored, the other vessels in company. After having dispatched a
meal, I went ashore, and found no habitation save a single house, and
that without an occupant; we had no doubt that the people had fled in
terror at our approach, as the house was completely furnished. I
suffered nothing to be touched, and went with my captains and some of
the crew to view the country. This island even exceeds the others in
beauty and fertility. Groves of lofty and flourishing trees are
abundant, as also large lakes, surrounded and overhung by the foliage,
in a most enchanting manner. Everything looked as green as in April in
Andalusia. The melody of the birds was so exquisite that one was never
willing to part from the spot, and the flocks of parrots obscured the
heavens. The diversity in the appearance of the feathered tribe from
those of our country is extremely curious. A thousand different sorts
of trees, with their fruit were to be met with, and of a wonderfully
delicious odor. It was a great affliction to me to be ignorant of
their natures, for I am very certain they are all valuable; specimens
of them and of the plants I have preserved. Going round one of these
lakes, I saw a snake, which we killed, and I have kept the skin for
your Highnesses; upon being discovered he took to the water, whither
we followed him, as it was not deep, and dispatched him with our
lances; he was seven spans in length; I think there are many more such
about here. I discovered also the aloe tree, and am determined to take
on board the ship tomorrow, ten quintals of it, as I am told it is
valuable. While we were in search of some good water, we came upon a
village of the natives about half a league from the place where the
ships lay; the inhabitants on discovering us abandoned their houses,
and took to flight, carrying of their goods to the mountain. I ordered
that nothing which they had left should be taken, not even the value
of a pin. Presently we saw several of the natives advancing towards
our party, and one of them came up to us, to whom we gave some hawk's
bells and glass beads, with which he was delighted. We asked him in
return, for water, and after I had gone on board the ship, the natives
came down to the shore with their calabashes full, and showed great
pleasure in presenting us with it. I ordered more glass beads to be
given them, and they promised to return the next day. It is my wish to
fill all the water casks of the ships at this place, which being
executed, I shall depart immediately, if the weather serve, and sail
round the island, till I succeed in meeting with the king, in order to
see if I can acquire any of the gold, which I hear he possesses.
Afterwards I shall set sail for another very large island which I
believe to be Cipango, according to the indications I receive from the
Indians on board. They call the Island Colba, and say there are many
large ships, and sailors there. This other island they name Bosio, and
inform me that it is very large; the others which lie in our course, I
shall examine on the passage, and according as I find gold or spices
in abundance, I shall determine what to do; at all events I am
determined to proceed on to the continent, and visit the city of
Guisay, where I shall deliver the letters of your Highnesses to the
Great Can, and demand an answer, with which I shall return.
---------------
Notice that he's taking advice from the "Indians" that he has on
board. He's already named them "Indians".

If you read the other entries, you won't find *any* indication that he
didn't think he had made landfall in the Far East, i.e India.

http://muweb.millersville.edu/~columbus/columbus.html

They told Columbus that the natives of other islands wore gold bands
around their arms and legs, and they described countless islands all
like theirs. Soon all natives were given the name €œIndians€? in the
belief that the Spaniards had arrived in the Indies (Asia).
snip
On the third day Columbus took six or seven Indians as guides upon his
departure from San Salvador and reconnoitered three other islands in
the Bahamas. For three months the flotilla sailed about the Caribbean,
visiting islands whose beauty the Europeans found nearly impossible to
describe. By the end of the month of October, Columbus reached the
coast of Cuba. After sailing north and then south along its coast, the
Admiral was convinced that this was nothing less than the Cipango, one
of the lands Marco Polo had praised. Despite the fact that the local
pilots told him it was an island, Columbus convinced himself that Cuba
was a promontory of the great country of Cathay.
snip
Insert editorial comment:

dw: Even after the third voyage, he thought he had found Cathay.

Invariably bad news for the Spaniards, Portuguese navigators had
fulfilled the Medieval dream of finding a direct trade route to the
Far East, thus outflanking the Muslims. For Columbus, Portugals
success was a new opportunity for the Great Navigator, and the
monarchs were again receptive to his vision of finding a strait to
mainland Cathay. Rather than retiring with a pension and an estate,
perhaps even a castle, Columbus suggested yet another voyage, his
fourth. The King and Queen must have been happy to agree to another
expedition if for no other reason that to unburden themselves of the
bothersome Columbus.


Get a life.

Try to figure out that you probably shouldn't be communicating in a
public forum, because you really are deficient in a lot of areas.







Very true. Including (1) ability to read, (2) ability to check facts before
putting foot in mouth and head up (well, you know), and (3) ability to tell the
truth. duh-Mikey has never been known to let little things - such as honesty
or knowledge - get in his way. He knows how to avoid both - and that's his
biggest claim to fame.

Bruce J. Richman