Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Howard Ferstler wrote:
I'd at least go for something that can handle real
bass.
Why? The package will include a subwoofer. Don't sell the
little Ascend speakers short above the low bass range. I
compared them to some pretty upscale units I had on hand to
review at the time, as well as to my Dunlavy Cantatas and
NHT ST4 units. They were not shamed by any means.
Because 100hz is directional.
Not all that much, and if the sub is located somewhere
between the speakers no big deal at all. (Admittedly, I
prefer locating subs in room corners.) Actually, I cross
over all three of my systems at 90 Hz (with 24 dB low-pass
slopes) and directionality in the bass range is just not
there. How do I know? I disconnect the satellites, put on a
recording with decent bass, and see if I can locate the sub
by ear.
This leads to a funny story. I was doing that with the
center-channel sub in my main system (at that time a Hsu
TN1220), which is located in the left-front corner of my
main-system room. I could swear that I heard bass coming
from that area, but when I got up to see just how hard the
sub was working I discovered that it was not playing at all.
I had set a bass-routing adjustment wrong and the center
bass was coming from my main sub, a Velodyne F1800, 20 feet
away in the right-front corner. This was with a 90 Hz
crossover.
The Hsu sub now does main-channel duty in my middle system,
by the way, and in the main system it was replaced by an SVS
16-46 that I have extensively modified. (I did an article on
the mod in TSS a while back.) I had to move the Hsu into the
middle-system room, because the sub had to fit into a tight
space and the 16-46 that was in there was just too big
around.
This is the same problem
you face with the smallest Magnepans - you need *two*
subwoofers to fill in the 50-100hz range, whiere stereo
imagine still exists, barring a 10*12 room.
The Ascends had no trouble reaching down to the 90 Hz
crossover point I use. The room-curve blend I measured over
that range is quite smooth. The curve can be found in issue
95 of The Sensible Sound, by the way. They are coupled with
a Hsu VTF-3, incidentally, in that curve.
Also, a subwoofer for stereo music tends to not integrate
well due to how the receiver handles processing and
crossover points(unless the receiver can keep presets for
each mode completely seperate).
Your front two speakers should at least be small towers
capable of good stereo music by themselves. The sub
should function either not at all in that mode, or
as below 50hz reinforcement only.
My middle system uses Dunlavy Cantatas, but I do not run
them full range. The low bass is shunted to a Hsu TN1220
(now in that system, instead of the main system) and when I
listen to some baroque recordings the auto-on feature of the
amp I use does not even trigger. Yes, sometimes you do not
need really low bass at all, and even moderately sized
speakers will do just fine. With some other music, and
certainly with some home theater, however, all bets are off.
Mirage are quite affordable, especially given their low
actual street price. I used to recommend Tannoy's
Mercury series - budget speakers that don't sound
budget. The M4 and M5 towers were superb sounding,
easily outclassing most others in their price range.
I reviewed a pair of Tannoy Mercury M2 models in issue 70 of
The Sensible Sound (July/Aug, 1998). It was a good little
system, but not quite in the same class as the similarly
sized Ascend models. Not quite as good as the NHT SB3 models
I reviewed in issue 90, either.
Athena almost makes nice speakers. The older Mirage
FRX spakers are essientially the current Athena speakers,
other than the superb FRx-9, which was amazing, with a sub
in each tower.
I'd recommend the AS-F2 fronts(larger towers rated to
35hz), AS-F1 rears(small towers give better bass and
take up the same floorspace as a bookself and a stand).
Have you done level-matched AB comparisons between these
various systems? I always make sure to do that with any
systems I review for magazine reports. I certainly would not
solidly recommend any speakers that I had not treated that
way.
The HSU VTF-3 is $699, but would be appropriate, IMO.
I reviewed that unit in Volume 8, issue 4 of The Audiophile
Voice. Very nice subwoofer. Very powerful. Down to 25 Hz the
smaller VTF-2 can match it at reasonably output levels, and
the still smaller STF-1 can match it down to 30 Hz, although
we are not talking high outputs. Below are the "clean" max
outputs (with test tones) of each of four Hsu subs and
several others in my main room at the same locations:
31.5 Hz 20 Hz
TN1220 113 dB 106 dB
VTF-3 (20 Hz plug) 112 dB 100 dB
VTF-2 (25 Hz plug) 106 dB 90 dB
STF-1 103 dB 80 dB
Velodyne F1800 114 dB 110 dB
Velodyne HGS-15 110 dB 104 dB
Velodyne FSR-12 104 dB 97 dB
Paradigm Servo 15 112 dB 110 dB
There are also quite a few other models I have measured, but
these are ones that might interest you.
I have compared the $300 Hsu SFT-1 to several subs in that
$600 price category and it clobbered them. I have also
compared it and the VTF-2 to the Velodyne FSR-12 servo model
in my living-room system and down to 25 Hz the VTF-2 was
subjectively equal to that $1300 Velodyne,
That's why I recommended the VTF-3. 
I really do like the HSU
subs, but the SFT-1 is inderpowered with the speakers I
recommended.
See my above measurements. Even Hsu himself is impressed
with and shocked by the performance of the STF-1, and it is
his design!
I suppose the VTF-2 would work as well, but
the budget can afford it, and IMO, it pays to buy a good
sub and amplifier if you can, as they are the most expensive
components in most systems anyways.
In a head to head music face off, I doubt if anyone could
hear the difference between the VTF-2 and a Velodyne servo
FSR-12. I ought to know: I own both and have done the
comparisons. Also reviewed both (in issues 67 and 88 of
TSS).
For A $1000 5.1 setup, though, the $300 HSU sub would be
perfect.
And also perfect for a $2000 package.
Howard Ferstler