Joseph Oberlander wrote:
Howard Ferstler wrote:
Here is my hypothetical price structure.
Speakers: five, at $200 each: $1,000 (the Ascend Acoustics
CBM-170 satellites
(snip a bunch of blather and opinion)
I'd at least go for something that can handle real
bass.
Why? The package will include a subwoofer. Don't sell the
little Ascend speakers short above the low bass range. I
compared them to some pretty upscale units I had on hand to
review at the time, as well as to my Dunlavy Cantatas and
NHT ST4 units. They were not shamed by any means.
Mirage and Paradigm make better sounding speakers.
Perhaps they do. I was just indicating that it is possible
to get good sound for not all that much money. I assume you
have compared the Ascend units I discussed to those Mirage
and Paradigm models. Good comparing means separate amps for
each pair, so the average levels can be overlaid.
The CBM-170s unfortunately *require* a sub to sound
propetly full-range, and that's not optimal. The sub
should only be required for movies as reinforcement.
Baloney. Optimally positioning a sub (usually best
positioned in a corner up front) will allow for smooth bass
propagation, while the satellites can be located for
superior imaging and soundstaging. Usually, when full-range
systems (working without a subwoofer) are located for best
soundstaging and imaging the bass range is compromised. How
do I know this? I have done the response measurements many
times with a large variety of small and large speakers.
Receiver: $400 (any number of mainstream brands will fill
the bill.
No problem here. Denon is probably the best of the bunch
at the low end, though they have about the worst tuner
section for FM that I've ever run across and a nasty
remote. Still, for A/V processing, it's great.
I am not particularly interested in FM. I do not listen to
music for background sound and I have over 1,200 compact
discs and over 100 SACD, DVD-A, DD, and DTS music recordings
on hand as well. When it comes to amp/preamp performance,
any number of other models can probably match the Denon.
DVD/CD player: $200 (any number of mainstream brands will
fill the bill.
$100 should do it. You don't need anything fancy.
Agreed. However, going a bit upscale might gain the user
some DVD-A or SACD abilities. Also, there is progressive
scan and the like if future video use is contemplated.
Subwoofer: $300 (this will get you a Hsu SFT-1, which is a
close sonic match for their VTF-2,
(snip a bunch of who gives a damn about your reviews
nonsense)
$300 won't get you a decent subwoofer. $600 would, though.
I have compared the $300 Hsu SFT-1 to several subs in that
$600 price category and it clobbered them. I have also
compared it and the VTF-2 to the Velodyne FSR-12 servo model
in my living-room system and down to 25 Hz the VTF-2 was
subjectively equal to that $1300 Velodyne, and the SFT-1
held its own spectacularly well down to 30 Hz, or even a bit
lower. I did these tests with the subs sitting next to each
other in my main room and doing level-matched switchovers
with both super-duper bass recordings and test tones. Is
that how you do your comparing?
Incidentally, at modest levels the FSR-12 cannot be
differentiated from the Velodyne F1800RII in my main system
or the modified SVS 16-46 PC I use for the center channel in
that same system, or the Hsu TN1220 I use in my middle
system. This means that those smaller Hsu models are even
more sensational than I first indicated. You seem to like
Paradigm, and I have compared their excellent servo model to
the bigger Hsu and Velodyne units. Level matched, they all
performed subjectively about the same way. The biggest
difference between really good subs of different sizes
involve maximum output levels. Note that I said really good.
Some subs, including some $600 jobs, are not much more than
outboard woofers.
Wi $100 (this includes 16 AWG lamp cord for the speakers
and good Radio shack cables for interconnect use.
$50. I'd not even include this in the overall cost - just
$2000 plus wire and tax, as a roll of 12 gauge wire(500ft)
isn't even $30. 16 gauge is too small as well - 14 or 12
gauge is better and is only a dollar or two more per roll.
You are probably correct about his wire costs. However, you
did forgot the interconnects. Even cheap Radio Shack Golds
cost at least twelve bucks. If the guy does a digital hookup
with optical cable the price for the cable would be $20-$30
all by itself. Also, I take sales taxes seriously, and so
even with cheap wire he will be bumping that $2000 limit
pretty hard.
Regarding your comments about wire gauge, I once compared
24-foot runs of 16 AWG wire both to 12-foot runs of $1000
Dunlavy Ultra speaker cable, and also to 4-foot runs of
Monster style 12 AWG stuff. The sound was the same. Small
wire looks less obnoxious laying on the floor.
I'd like to know where you got a 500-foot roll of 12 AWG
wire for under $30. Do you live in China?
Howard Ferstler
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