On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 13:01:46 GMT, "Doc"
wrote:

Not by the people who wrote his songs. Despite his having an untrained and
slightly "croaky" voice, they loved the way he delivered them. snip

Sinatra did have early vocal training, as a teenager. He wasn't a
very apt pupil, from all accounts, and a lot of what he was taught in
vocal classes seemed to be lost on him in later years.

The cynic in me strongly suspects their enthusiasm was largely due to the
fact that he was huge star and whatever he sang got tremendous publicity. snip

....thus providing the rationale for fakes like Enrique Iglesias,
Britney Spears and Ashlee Simpleton, the "Texas Jigger"...manufacture
a star with a lot of hype, and the lemmings will go over the cliff
into your cashbox every time.

Vaughn Monroe? Robert Goulet's godfather?

Thanks for reminding me of another singer I should have put on the list.
Yeah, Goulet recorded a lot of schlock and I've heard could be a horse's
ass, but he had a formidable vocal instrument. "If Ever I Would Leave You"
was a gem. Haven't heard him in a long time, don't know what kind of shape
his pipes are in these days. snip

Lousy. I heard him in Vegas not too long ago...his range is severely
truncated, he looks like a department store manniquin with all that
makeup, and his stage presence is NOT good. Years of booze and cigs
sure took their toll there, as they did with Sinatra and Bennett.
Even Waynie-the-Pooh over at the Stardust is more entertaining...in a
bizarre sort of way. As far as Vegas fare goes, Steve and Eydie (for
better or worse) can clean Goulet's clock anyday...if you can stand
Eydie's screaming at you for any length of time. The one who's
drawing them like flies in Vegas today? A nobody-cum-star named Steve
Gahns. I've yet to figure this out, other than it's the biggest hype
campaign in town I've ever seen.

I think your problem is that you don't like Sinatra as a person, and I
can't
blame you for that.

Well, honestly I just don't think much of his voice. I'd say "he was an
asshole but he could sing" if I believed that. I could listen to Sammy
Davis, Goulet or Ed Ames all day. You'd have to pay me to listen to Sinatra
for any length of time. Well, I might tolerate him to hear those fantastic
Nelson Riddle arrangements. Btw, I've always heard that Sinatra's career
stalled after parting ways with Riddle and picked up again when he started
using him again. snip

Riddle was 100% responsible for Sinatra's comeback starting in '54,
and Billy May's hot charts and wailing saxes propelled it even further
in the mid/late '50s. Sinatra and May had a parting of the ways,
Sinatra went back to Riddle, then started drifting around. Many of
his '60s and '70s albums were utter bombs without Riddle around to
prop him up, but sold anyway, due to the name Sinatra had manufactured
for himself. Gordy Jenkins and the LA Phil couldn't do much to help
him on the "Future" part of "Trilogy" in '79, and even the '60s Don
Costa-backed cover stuff was weak. Without a hot band to back him,
Sinatra would fall flat on his face, and the ballads, even with
Riddle, would be come booze-soaked laments, although I think that was
part of the attraction...people loved hearing that painful groaning!
To be fair, "Future" was a HUGE gamble for Sinatra, and a very
unconventional set of music for a pop vocalist. So, I give Sinatra
kudos for even trying it. It sold well in spite of itself. However,
he wisely backed himself with a big name in itself with the LA
Philharmonic, just to hedge his bet.

Recently saw a Sinatra movie that I'd never heard of before - "Kings Go
Forth" I think it was from '58. Sinatra, Tony Curtis, Natalie Wood.
Interesting movie that apparently never got much notice despite the big
names. The subject matter of interracial marriage I'm sure was highly
controversial at the time. Also featured a cameo by trumpet great Pete
Candoli who also provided the playing to Tony Curtis' faking. snip

The movie supposedly didn't play well in the South (hmmmm...those
pesky red states again!) and also angered many WW II and Korean War
vets, knowing that Sinatra had dodged the bullet in WW II and had a
pretty cushy life on the home front...sort of like our current
president! The prejudice angle had been played to the hilt a year
earlier in '57 with "Sayonara" and seemed to play universally well,
probably because it didn't involve a black player. Why anything
written by Michener didn't take 400 reels of film to document is
beyond me. I remember seeing "Kings Go Forth" and thinking the
screenplay was a bit weak, while Sinatra pretty much held the whole
thing together opposite a fresh and well directed Natalie Wood.
Curtis was...well...Curtis!

dB