AudioBanter.com - View Single Post - seeking advice on an analogue home studio setup

In article writes:

Thanks kindly for all the replies so far. I'm going to clarify a few
things (some of which is repeated info), summarize your opinions a
little, and then ask for advice on two options (digital and tape
recorder setups).

1.1) My synthesizer (the Andromeda A6) is a 16-voice machine. It
doesn't have the practically unlimited polyphony of digital synths. In
many cases I want to use all 16 voices on one track, in particular for
keys, pads, and string patches.

This is a performance instrument. By multitracking with it, you'll be
right up there with the early creators of electronic music.

I *need* some way to monitor old parts while playing / composing new
parts. From 1.1-1.3 you can see that it can't all be done using MIDI,
and that I must have a multi-track recorder of some sort.

This is certainly a good reason to have a recorder and console.

2.1) The truth is, actually I love computers. I love writing software
and (perhaps crazily) I even like finding and fixing bugs in that
software.

Well, yeah, but when you have your musician hat on, you'd probably
rather be a musician.

What I want are the wonderful tape saturation effects, and the other
benefits of going through all the analog circuitry in these machines.

I think this is highly overrated, but there's no question that analog
recorders have a sound. And cheap analog recorders have a different
sound. Guess which ones the serious producers and engineers who like
analog prefer. The guys who read Tape Op use crappy analog recorders
because they're into lo-fi, but you don't want to limit yourself to
that sound. It gets tiring really fast.

2.3) Aesthetic reasons. I (for one reason or another) think not only
that analog(ue) sound is a beautiful thing, but that the act of using
all non-digital sound sources and modifiers in a signal chain, from
synthesizer to vinyl record to human ears, especially when making
strictly electronic music, is also a beautiful thing.

Gee, and all of these years, we've been striving for ACCURACY! g But
on a good playback system vinyl records can sound better than CDs, but
that's because there are a lot of bad CDs, and it was too expensive to
make a bad vinyl record.

3.1) Don't settle for narrow-gauge tape, or a dying recorder that needs
considerable work before it's usable. I would be better of with a
digital recorder in that situation.

3.2) Don't settle for a cheap console either.

3.3) On top of the cost of a recorder and console, be prepared to fork
out an equal amount of cash for all kinds of accessories: cables,
patchbays, racks, stands, and power supplies.

Those are all part of real life, much of which has been replaced by
the computer in contemporary studios.

3.4) Working with tape is not necessarily *easier* than working with
digital media, especially if I could rely on stable embedded processors
(magic pixies),

I like to look at it the other way. I use computer stuff when it's as
easy or easier than working with tape. But I have my own
interpretation of what "easy" is, and you probably do, too.

and it should be clear to me that maintaining all this
equipment is a considerable investment in time, money, effort, and not
being able to produce music.

That's not necessarily so. It's not maintenance-free, but it only
takes a few minutes to do a recorder alignment, and troubleshooting a
piece of hardware is far more logical than troubleshooting a computer
(particulary software-induced) problem. With analog equipment, you
actually trace the problem and fix something where with a computer,
you reload the softare, and if that doesn't fix it, reload to a lower
level and try again, essentially rebuilding the system from the ground
up. That may be faster in the long run than finding a bad IC and
replacing it, but it's far less satisfying because you don't know what
was really wrong and what you actually fixed.

3.5) Portability issues. I should make sure not buy anything too too
big if I plan to move anytime soon (basically, a washing machine of a
tape deck is the most I should try to accomodate). A studio console is
meant to get installed in a studio, not in an apartment.

Definitely true.

It seems there are basically two options for me, digital recorder +
bigger console or tape recorder + smaller console.

How do you figure this? You need a console large enough to accommodate
the number of inputs you have, which includes tape tracks as well as
sources. That's the same whether you have a digital recorder or an
analog one.

The $4-5K I've
previously mentioned for console and recorder together obviously doesn't
include other costs, and I'd like to get it sorted out before I commit
to either.

I might have
an extra $10000 to spend (but that includes outboard gear and effects
and probably getting my first record pressed too). Again, I'm all about
high-quality used goods.

That's quite adequate if you shop carefully (unless you wrote an extra
zero there and your total budget tops out at $6K. But that's still
manageable.

4.1) Digital recorder. This would essentially leave me more money to
spend on other goods, like a nicer console. I've been told by you guys
that a good solution can be had for under $1000. Products include:

High end: iZ RADAR systems (fine, that won't be under $1K)
Down the chain: systems from Yamaha, Roland/BOSS, TASCAM, etc.
e.g. TASCAM DA-38, DA-78
Mackie MDR24/96 24-track

Excluding the Radar, that's going to be in the $600 - $1200 range,
which will get you 8, 16 (two DA-38s), or up to 24 (Mackie) tracks.
And by golly, $1200 for a used Mackie MDR24/96 is a heck of a bargain
for 24 tracks - but you can't slam the meters and get it to sound
like an overdriven guitar guitar amplifier.

4.2) Tape-based recorder. If I did this, I would propose to have a 1"
8-track (2" machines being too expensive), and also to sell my JoMoX
AirBase 99 drum machine (10 outputs), gaining me $600, and limit myself
to the Alesis Andromeda A6 (16 outputs). I can make all drum sound with
the A6

That's another approach. With 8 tracks, you'll have to make some
decisions in real time, the more complex your compositions, the more
decisions. But that's where the fun is.

I don't know how much I should expect to pay for a tape deck,
but it *seems* that I'll be able to get something in good shape for
$2-3K (plus a good mastering deck for $1K).

That's possible if you're willing to accept doing some work and
spending some money getting it into good shape when you need it to be
in good shape, but if it's functional, you can start learning how to
use your system even if the high frequency response is a little
ragged, and when you're ready to record your magnum opus, get the
heads refurbished and get a good alignment.

Machines to look out for:
Ampex-102 (as a 2-track mastering deck)

I don't see those for $1,000 any more (or yet) but an AG-440 in good
shape for $750 would be a good bet.

Ampex MM-1200 (1" 8-track version)

I'm not sure they made any 8-track MM1200s, or if they did, they're
pretty rare. Most were 24-track. Most MM1100s were 16-track. There
were plenty of MM1000 8-tracks but they're bigger than a refrigerator
and I suspect that most of them have been dismantled for the
electronics (same as AG-440) and the transports have been striped for
motors and mechanical parts, with the chassis going to the landfill.
Believe me, you DON'T want an MM1000 8-track.

Stephens machines

Too rare to bother with.

TASCAM 2" machines (but I'm aiming for 1" 8-track)

The TASCAM MTR-24 2" 24-track machine was great, but the 1" 8-track (I
don't remember the model) wasn't so hot. The Otari MX-80 occasionally
shows up as an 8-track and that's a decent machine.

MCI 1" 8-tracks, if they made them.

They definitely did.

There is possibly a good deal on an AG-440 to be had in Washington (I
posted this elsewhere in response to Mike Rivers):

A tip about posting URLs to auctions in newsgroups: Use tinyurl.com to
convert the URL to something that will fit on one line. Those of us
who don't have up-to-date news readers and up to date ISPs often find
the posted link broken in the middle. It's too much trouble to paste
together and I don't bother. Alternately, just post the eBay item
number. Anybody who would bother to look probably already has a
bookmark to Search eBay.

The biggest concern I have with 1" 8-track vs. 2" 16-track is whether I
lose sound quality by bouncing and then mixing bounced tracks together.

Look at the positive side. You're gaining that analog sound. It's all
about managing the loss of quality creatively. Lots of great
recordings have been made on 8 tracks or fewer, with bouncing. You can
do clever things like recording 8 tracks, mixing them to a simple
computer-based system, then dumping that mix back to tape. More
tracks, more stereo.

4.3) Analog console (either way). A big studio console is impractical
(5 feet wide is sort of a limit) and I'm looking at 16 - 32-channel
boards. Having multiple boards is understood to be bad.

Multiple boards isn't all that bad, but it's a more complicated setup
and you don't have the flexibility that you get from one well thought
out multitrack recording board.

Not the Tascam 300B series since they make noise and cause EMI.

They don't cause EMI, but they make a good antenna for EMI that's
floating around everywhere.

So, assuming I go with the tape recorder, what about a 16-channel
console? What can I get that's really a step up from the Mackie 1604?
How much should I expect to pay? It needs to be inline.

If you're using a 16-channel recorder, you'll want a console with more
than 16 input channels. For what you have and where you're going, I
think you're on the right track with a 24 or 32 input console. And you
want something with tape monitoring - an in-line console or split
monitor (like an older Soundcraft, like a 600). You probably don't
need a lot of subgroup outputs, but subgroups will help you in mixing,
and you may want to (particularly if you're limited on tracks) want to
mix several inputs to a single bus or pair of busses to go to one or
two recorder tracks. An 8-bus console should be adequate for you, but
a 4-bus console might cramp you a bit.

4.4) Cables and patchbays and power supplies and stuff: budget $1000 to
$2000. How much do I really need if I just have a pile of effects, my
Andromeda, a recorder, and the mixer?

Count the jacks and divide by two. If you're using a patchbay, don't
divide by two.

Cheers.

--
I'm really Mike Rivers )
However, until the spam goes away or Hell freezes over,
lots of IP addresses are blocked from this system. If
you e-mail me and it bounces, use your secret decoder ring
and reach me he double-m-eleven-double-zero at yahoo