From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 7:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: t


"S888Wheel" wrote in message
...
From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 5:15 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"S888Wheel" wrote in message
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From: "Michael McKelvy"
Date: 11/26/2004 1:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
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"S888Wheel" wrote in message
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From: "Trevor Wilson"
Date: 11/25/2004 12:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

I know it is not scientific, nor even independently verified as
accurate.
Nevertheless, it provides an interesting starting point for
discussion.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in657083.shtml


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au


And to think Mikey was taking issue with Michael Moore's claim that
Americans
are stupid. Clearly most are.

If being religious makes you stupid, then clearly most of the world is.

Most of the populations of most of the first world countries do not
suffer
from
this mass stupidity over evolution and science in general.

Can you cite any evidence for this belief?

I'm sure I could with a little search on line. I'm not going to bother
unless
to tell me you think that Europe has the same phenomenon of a majority of
people believing in creationism.

Most of Europe is Christian, is
it not?

Not fundimentalists who don't believe life evolved. That is actually quite
rare
in Europe.

Do they not believe in creationism?

Very very few.

The rest of the world is
pretty much either Muslim, Budist, or Hindu, all of which have some sort
of
creation myth do they not?

Myth yes. And there are fundimentalist Muslems and Jews that also take
their
respective bibles literally. They are also a minority amoung Jews and
Muslems.
Just as fundimentalist Christians are amoung first world Christians,
excluding
the U.S.



It isn't about
religion it is about rational thought.

For me religion is the opposite of rational thought.

You paint religion with a rather big brush. What, for instance, do you
find
irrational about Deism? You know, the common religious belief held by our
forefathers who formed this nation.



Clearly rational thought is painfully
lacking in America.

Depends on what you're talking about. If you mean as it pertains to
allowing people to live their lives and make a living, I'd say we're doing
well.

Are you not following the thread? I was clearly talking about the rational
thought that would preclude the belief in such primative superstitions as
the
literal belief in Genesis.

Regarding political discourse, not so much.

I wasn't talking about that either.



That should be cause for concern. It also seems to confirm
that which you were so upset about. Looks like Michael Moore pegged our
nation's people. Why were you so upset about it?

I'm not upset by that in and of itself. It's the sneering, smarmy, way he
looks down his nose at those who don't buy his jaundiced views.

You seemed to be particularly bothered by his comment that Americans are
stupid. Now you are not upset by it? Hmmm.

I wasn't upset so much by the fact that he said it, but by the fact that
people were denying he said it.

Funny, that never happened.



It's also
his dishonesty. If what he believes is true he should be able to make his
case much more honestly, with out the editing. I've not read any
objective
critique of his work that finds his methods to honest or even making a
pretense at objectivity.

Then why make such an issue over his assertion that Americans are stupid?
It
looks pretty accurate at this point.

It's still not something I entirely believe, but again, it was that it was
being denied that he said it.

It wasn't being denied.



I think he's a prefect example of a lack of rational thought.


Funny, you get that a lot too.

I think the kind of freedom I enorse and the amount of government suport it
would remove frightens people. I also think that there ought not to be
contradictions. If it's wrong for the average Joe to take something he
didn't earn by force, it can't be OK for the government to essentially do
the same thing.

I think you think in very very simplistic terms. The world is far too
complicated for your ideas. Just my opinion.




Opinions abound. IMO one has to be quite
ignorant, quite stupid or quite scared to belive in creationism.

My own experience is that people tend to mix a bit of Darwin with a bit of
God had a hand in it also.

That is quite different unless you are talking about those who believe
complexity is proof of god the designer. I see nothing irrational about
believing a god set it all in motion.

The idea of no God directing things is hard for
people who've been fed a diet of some sort of religion all their lives.
They think there's a God of some sort who created everything but it was
longer ago than the creationists want them to believe, so therefore belief
in evolution is OK too.

I think you are shooting from the hip. There are very specific beliefs about
these issues held by various groups.

I doubt very seriously that there are many hard
core creationists.

Then you are ignoring the data presented at the begining of this threadalong
with a **** load of other easily accessable data. Every poll I have seen has
returned the alarming results that in fact the majority of Americans are stupid
enough, ignorant enough or scared enough to believe in the primative
superstition that the bible is literally true. I find that fact quite
unnerving.