In article ,
(paul packer) wrote:

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:14:16 GMT, Andy Katz
wrote:


************************************************* **************
Being lied to so billionaires can wage war for profits
while indebting taxpayers for generations to come, now
that's just a tad bit bigger than not admitting you like
the big moist-moist lips of chunky trollops on your pecker.

Paghat, the Rat Girl

Please don't quote this woman. I've had arguments with her. The last
thing I wish is to see her being quoted at large like a sage.

Howdy, Fudgie! I haven't thought of you for over four years! I'm surprised
your pile is still steaming after a four-year-old flame in response to
your homophobic denials about Mary Renault & Julie Mullard's life
together. It was nice you'd even heard of them; beyond that, you were such
a dork. You went all dubious that their fifty-year life-commitment was
gay, charged me with having an "agenda" for even alluding to it, & you
went so far as to misquote one of their biographers who you claimed said
they weren't gay. (What he actually said was, in their youth together,
"did not think of themselves as lesbians because they thought what they
were doing was unique, that they had invented it. If asked, they would
have said they were bisexual. They often found men attractive, even if
they did prefer each other." Your denials were so moronic that I had a few
jests at your whiny expense, though only after you'd started acusing me of
a sinister queer agenda that you believed had nothing to do with books you
liked.

I would never have thought of you or that encounter ever again if Andy's
sigfile hadn't given you the horrors. But a google archive search reminded
me of the amusing long-ago encounter.

They were dykes, Fudgie. So neener. And cute dykes too:
http://niftynats.tripod.com/lesbians/renault.jpg

It was harder to be "out" in the 1940s & 1950s than it is now, & harder in
South Africa than in Paris or London. When time caught up with them in the
post-Stonewall era, it was still hard for a couple in their 70s to
suddenly be expected by their enormous gay following to come out to the
public, which was still risky, & neither Mary nor Julie ever wanted to do
that. Yet Mary was brave for her time. As Caroline Zilboorg notes in THE
MASKS OF MARY RENAULT, Renault's boldness was to write about homosexuality
in fictional contexts which made her less closeted than many of the time,
as "The classical settings allowed Renault to mask material too explosive
to deal with directly while simultaneously giving her an 'academic'
freedom to write about subjects vital to her--among them war, peace,
career, women's roles, female and male homosexuality, and bisexuality."

I'd think that after four years, if our exchange had even been worthy of a
second thought let alone your continuous hostile reflection, you'd've
ceased to be ballistic by now & just realized it was weird of you to find
those cute dykes' love for one another so unbelievable. Your sense of
disbelief in a favorite author's homosexuality was massively irrational,
as Mary herself addressed it in her contemporary lesbian novel FRIENDLY
YOUNG LADIES (recently reprinted by Vintage Books), & she was even quite
out & open to her & Julie's personal friends, with correspondence since
published in which she is very open, as when she outlined to a friend how
she'd once encouraged Julie to date a man so that Julie would be
absolutely certain she had made the right choice with Mary, & admitted she
had worried that without Julie she might have ended up only a "Sister
George" type. Instead, she found true lifelong love.

This stuff gave you fits four years ago, so I ended up thinking of you as
Fudge Packer merely because it is so often the worst self-hating closety
faggots who become the most irrationally convinced even gay icons like
Renault, Gertrude Stein, or Tennessee Williams couldn't possibly be gay --
the denials part of their their own inability to admit their personal
interest is gay novels with gay subjects does in fact have something to do
with being gay. That my opinion still rankles you four years later is
simply you being loony. That you're worried I'm treated like a "sage"
(when the most recent three folks to quote me in their sigfiles seem more
to have regarded me as a commedienne) is still just your paranoia speaking
to you.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com