HD radio is not the only IBOC standard - DRM is also [Archive]

October 2nd 07, 07:44 PM

On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
wrote:
> "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>
> Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?

No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
signals).

> It's not so bad. It would be better if they would segregate the AM and DRM
> SW stations.

[email protected]

October 2nd 07, 09:42 PM

On Oct 2, 8:11?am, SFTV_troy > wrote:
> Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>
> Do you hate DR Mondiale too?

As a whole, digital radio is a farce, offering poor reception
(especially in moving vehicles), unnecessary extra channels (as if
there aren't already enough radio stations), and expensive receivers
requiring external antennas - no wonder, consumer interest in DAB has
stalled in Canada and the US, and is slowing in the UK.

RHF

October 3rd 07, 09:49 AM

On Oct 2, 5:11 am, SFTV_troy > wrote:
-
- Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC.
- (Designed to operate in analog/digital mode
- for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
-
- Do you hate DR Mondiale too?
-

SFTV -aka- "Hybrid Digital" Man,
[ -wrt- cross-posting this to : rec.radio.shortwave ]

Again post from some knowledge; based on your personal
experience from actually listening to Shortwave Radio
-vice- simply something that you read somewhere.
DRM => http://www.drm.org/

Use a common 'portable' AM & FM Shortwave Radio
and Tune to a DRM Shortwave Radio Broadcast.
http://www.drm.org/livebroadcast/livebroadcast.php
Hear that Noise on both sides of the Tuned Frequency
extending for +/- 10 kHz. That is the Digital Noise
caused by the DRM Digital Broadcast Mode.

Now take that same Radio and Tune to an Analog "AM"
Shortwave Radio Broadcast in the same Shortwave Band
at the same Hour.
http://www.retards.org/radio/shortwave_schedule/
You may hear an additional Radio Broadcast or two
within the same +/- 10 kHz from the Tuned Frequency.

This is "Why" many say DRM is QRM. ~ RHF

SFTV_troy

October 3rd 07, 10:22 AM

On Oct 3, 3:49 am, RHF > wrote:
>
> Use a common 'portable' AM & FM Shortwave Radio
> and Tune to a DRM Shortwave Radio Broadcast.http://www.drm.org/livebroadcast/livebroadcast.php
> Hear that Noise on both sides of the Tuned Frequency
> extending for +/- 10 kHz. That is the Digital Noise
> caused by the DRM Digital Broadcast Mode.
> This is "Why" many say DRM is QRM. ~ RHF

What's QRM? (checks wikipedia) Does that mean "Man-made
interference"

Wikipedia doesn't say what the negatives for DRM are.

SFTV_troy

October 3rd 07, 10:29 AM

Soundhaspriority wrote:
> "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
> >
> > Do you hate DR Mondiale too?
> >
> I think the reaction you're getting is really due to
>
> 1. Reaction to the marketing hype, which in the case of Ibquity and DRM, is
> the bold faced lie of CD quality.
> 2. The way you promote the official position, as if you had a financial
> stake. Regardless of whether you're just a bored engeineer, or a marketing
> type lying his ass off, this is the way you come off.

I see. Well I wrote roughly half of the criticisms section (and all
of the HDR vs. EU DRM/DAB section) located here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd_radio#Comparison_to_EU.27s_Digital_Radio
----- I have also posted quite a number of negative comments on this
forum such as, "HD Radio AM should be banned from nighttime
broadcasting, until circa 2015, at which time analog can be switched-
off and HD can take over".

I recognize that HD is not flawless.

The problem is most of the folks on these groups think HD has
absolutely *no* positives whatsoever. They are biased towards the
"hate" side of the HD argument, and hate anyone (like me) who says
even the slightest positive thing about the standard.

They are the biased ones.
I am sitting on the fence (recognizing both + and - the standard).

> If digital radio were instead marketed honestly with respect to the real
> benefits it provides in certain situations, such as mobile, you wouldn't
> hear all the animosity.

SFTV_troy

October 3rd 07, 10:31 AM

On Oct 2, 3:42 pm, wrote:
>
> As a whole, digital radio is a farce, offering poor reception
> (especially in moving vehicles), unnecessary extra channels (as if
> there aren't already enough radio stations)...

There are not enough radio stations. Which is why some people can't
find anything worth listening to, and complain "Today's radio is all
crap".

Don Pearce

October 3rd 07, 10:41 AM

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:31:53 -0700, SFTV_troy >
wrote:

>On Oct 2, 3:42 pm, wrote:
>>
>> As a whole, digital radio is a farce, offering poor reception
>> (especially in moving vehicles), unnecessary extra channels (as if
>> there aren't already enough radio stations)...
>
>
>There are not enough radio stations. Which is why some people can't
>find anything worth listening to, and complain "Today's radio is all
>crap".

Utter ********. A thousand stations of crap is still crap. It is the
dilution of funds by excessive quantity that prevents radio stations
putting together a competent programme list, which takes money, money
and more money.

Fewer, better funded radio stations are the way to quality. And the
first step to that is to remove all the radio stations which are
simply record players. This goes in spades for ghetto radio, where the
entire output is a single genre. And in spades and trumps for radio
stations which push loathsome religious agendas.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

RHF

October 3rd 07, 11:12 AM

On Oct 3, 2:22 am, SFTV_troy > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 3:49 am, RHF > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Use a common 'portable' AM & FM Shortwave Radio
> > and Tune to a DRM Shortwave Radio Broadcast.http://www.drm.org/livebroadcast/livebroadcast.php
> > Hear that Noise on both sides of the Tuned Frequency
> > extending for +/- 10 kHz. That is the Digital Noise
> > caused by the DRM Digital Broadcast Mode.
> > This is "Why" many say DRM is QRM. ~ RHF
>

- What's QRM? (checks wikipedia)
- Does that mean "Man-made interference"

SFTV -aka- "Hybrid Digital" Man,

DOH ! - The "Q" Codes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q_code
Amateur Radio Speak
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio
The Amateur Radio Q-Code
http://www.qsl.net/w5www/qcode.html
Amateur {Ham} Radio Think
http://www.ac6v.com/opaids.htm

- Wikipedia doesn't say what the negatives for DRM are.

What Happens -IF- a Digital AM Signal and an
Analogue AM Signal are in the Same Channel ?
http://www.drm.org/newsevents/faqs/faq-023.php
-Or- Adjacent Channel within +/- kHz ? ? ?
-Answer- The impact on the Analog AM Signal
of a Digital Signal in the Same Channel would be
a Severe Increase in the Background Noise Level;
that often obliterates the Analog AM Signal.
http://www.drm.org/newsevents/faqs/faq-061.php

Read about Digital Radio Mondiale (DRM)
Shortwave Radio Reception in New Zealand
http://www.owdjim.gen.nz/chris/radio/DRM/

and now you know for now . . . ~ RHF

Tom Decouttere

October 3rd 07, 12:20 PM

On 2 okt, 14:11, SFTV_troy > wrote:
> Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>
> Do you hate DR Mondiale too?

You forgot to mention a 3rd,
FMeXtra : http://www.dreinc.com/

[email protected]

October 3rd 07, 12:24 PM

Don Pearce wrote:
> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:31:53 -0700, SFTV_troy >
> >
> >There are not enough radio stations. Which is why some
> >people can't find anything worth listening to, and complain
> >"Today's radio is all crap".
>
> Utter ********. A thousand stations of crap is still crap. It is the
> dilution of funds by excessive quantity that prevents radio stations
> putting together a competent programme list, which takes money
> Fewer, better funded radio stations are the way to quality.

Is "quality" playing old Big Band music, Jazz, and Classical?

Personally I'd call that, not crap, but definitely "boring". I like
those genres, but I also like Pop, Rock, and Hip-hop on top of that.
I like variety. Most people my age like variety, sampling a little of
everything.

I'd rather see lots and lots and lots of channels, and then let
Darwinian Survival of the Fittest happen..... good channels survive,
and bad channels starve & die. I prefer the invisible hand of the
market, rather than the dictatorial control of someone saying, "Let's
revoke some stations' licenses," because they think there are too many
of them.

Don Pearce

October 3rd 07, 12:35 PM

On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:24:48 -0700, wrote:

>Don Pearce wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Oct 2007 02:31:53 -0700, SFTV_troy >
>> >
>> >There are not enough radio stations. Which is why some
>> >people can't find anything worth listening to, and complain
>> >"Today's radio is all crap".
>>
>> Utter ********. A thousand stations of crap is still crap. It is the
>> dilution of funds by excessive quantity that prevents radio stations
>> putting together a competent programme list, which takes money
>> Fewer, better funded radio stations are the way to quality.
>
>
>
>
>Is "quality" playing old Big Band music, Jazz, and Classical?
>
>Personally I'd call that, not crap, but definitely "boring". I like
>those genres, but I also like Pop, Rock, and Hip-hop on top of that.
>I like variety. Most people my age like variety, sampling a little of
>everything.
>

Music, music music - all we hear about is pigging music. That is not
what I want from radio - I have my own collection of music that I can
dip into any time I want. What I don't have, the internet is there to
tell me about. Music is a shameful waste of radio resource.

>
>
>I'd rather see lots and lots and lots of channels, and then let
>Darwinian Survival of the Fittest happen..... good channels survive,
>and bad channels starve & die. I prefer the invisible hand of the
>market, rather than the dictatorial control of someone saying, "Let's
>revoke some stations' licenses," because they think there are too many
>of them.

Sometimes Darwin needs a little help, and arguably that help is just
as Darwinian as anything. Channels don't survive or die based on their
quality - if there were a million, then on average perhaps they would,
but when we are talking about a few dozen, Darwinian statistics don't
work. My view is that simply playing records is a waste of radio
spectrum, which is far too precious a resource to waste this way.
Radio stations must generate material that is not available through
other media.

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Richard Crowley

October 3rd 07, 01:54 PM

THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
(AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION

RHF

October 3rd 07, 08:26 PM

On Oct 3, 10:11 am, Steve > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 8:54 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
> > THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
> > (AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
> > PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION
>
> Please also drop rec.radio.shortwave.

Done !

Frank Dresser

October 4th 07, 08:15 PM

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
> wrote:
> > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
> >
> > oups.com...
> >
> > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
> >
> > Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?
>
> No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
> with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
> signals).
>

I've only heard the incessant hiss of full digital DRM. Is anybody
broadcasting the combined DRM analog digital mix?

Frank Dresser

RHF

October 4th 07, 08:44 PM

On Oct 4, 12:15 pm, "Frank Dresser" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
> > wrote:
> > > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
>
> > oups.com...
>
> > > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> > > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>
> > > Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?
>
> > No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
> > with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
> > signals).
>
> I've only heard the incessant hiss of full digital DRM. Is anybody
> broadcasting the combined DRM analog digital mix?
>
> Frank Dresser

FD,

Maybe in the Longwave and Medium Wave Bands because
of Limited and Permenate Frequency Assignments.
http://www.drm.org/livebroadcast/livebroadcast.php

But I am not aware of any Shortwave (HF) DRM+Analog
"Simulcasts".

~ RHF

David Eduardo

October 4th 07, 09:12 PM

"Frank Dresser" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
>> wrote:
>> > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
>> >
>> > oups.com...
>> >
>> > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
>> > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>> >
>> > Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?
>>
>> No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
>> with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
>> signals).
>>
>
> I've only heard the incessant hiss of full digital DRM. Is anybody
> broadcasting the combined DRM analog digital mix?
>
> Frank Dresser

Supposedly XEEP in Mexico City is testing by having analog on its licensed
1060 and DRM on 1070, per the local broadcaster association. I have heard no
reports on how this is going, or for how long it is scheduled to go on.

RHF

October 4th 07, 10:30 PM

On Oct 4, 1:12 pm, "David Eduardo" > wrote:
> "Frank Dresser" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > > wrote in message
> ups.com...
> >> On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
> >> wrote:
> >> > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
>
> >> oups.com...
>
> >> > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> >> > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
>
> >> > Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?
>
> >> No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
> >> with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
> >> signals).
>
> > I've only heard the incessant hiss of full digital DRM. Is anybody
> > broadcasting the combined DRM analog digital mix?
>
> > Frank Dresser
>
> Supposedly XEEP in Mexico City is testing by having analog on its licensed
> 1060 and DRM on 1070, per the local broadcaster association. I have heard no
> reports on how this is going, or for how long it is scheduled to go on.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

d'Eduardo,

? I am getting an IBOC Digital Signal Indicator -aka-
the "Blinking Blue Light" from XEKTT on 1700 kHz ?
- - - Radi-Osophy HD-100 Radio

XEKTT 1700 kHz - Tijuana, BCN Mexico
Excellent Audio and ? BBL ? ~750 Miles
http://www.am-dx.com/lists/082stat.htm
http://www.cash1700.com/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEPE-AM
Note - Listed as 10,000 Watts it sounds like a whole lot more
to me {maybe 50 KW ?}

About the best Audio of any AM/MW Radio Station that I receive
up here in Twain Harte, CA in the Morning Hours of 7 AM to 9 AM.
{English Language : Sports Talk : XX Sports Radio }
http://earthsignals.com/add_CGC/baja_engr.pdf
http://www.hard-core-dx.com/archive/irca/msg11185.html
http://www.radioworld.com/dailynews/show_issue.cgi?year=2004&month=7&week=31
http://www.xxsportsradio.com/content/view/179/29/

Are the Mexican Border Blasters Going IBOC ? ~ RHF

dxAce

October 5th 07, 12:05 AM

David Eduardo wrote:

> "Frank Dresser" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > wrote in message
> > ups.com...
> >> On Oct 2, 9:55 am, "Frank Dresser" >
> >> wrote:
> >> > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
> >> >
> >> > oups.com...
> >> >
> >> > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> >> > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
> >> >
> >> > Can you demodulate DRM without a digital decoder?
> >>
> >> No, but it does have one advantage over HD Radio. DRM can be received
> >> with a standard computer (you just need the tuner to receive the
> >> signals).
> >>
> >
> > I've only heard the incessant hiss of full digital DRM. Is anybody
> > broadcasting the combined DRM analog digital mix?
> >
> > Frank Dresser
>
> Supposedly XEEP in Mexico City is testing by having analog on its licensed
> 1060 and DRM on 1070, per the local broadcaster association. I have heard no
> reports on how this is going, or for how long it is scheduled to go on.

You're a pathological liar. No supposedly about it!

RHF

October 5th 07, 03:33 AM

On Oct 4, 2:56 pm, "David Eduardo" > wrote:
> "RHF" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
> > On Oct 4, 1:12 pm, "David Eduardo" > wrote:
> >> "Frank Dresser" > wrote in message
>
> > ? I am getting an IBOC Digital Signal Indicator -aka-
> > the "Blinking Blue Light" from XEKTT on 1700 kHz ?
> > - - - Radi-Osophy HD-100 Radio
>
> > XEKTT 1700 kHz - Tijuana, BCN Mexico
> > Excellent Audio and ? BBL ? ~750 Miles
> >http://www.am-dx.com/lists/082stat.htm
> >http://www.cash1700.com/index.html
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XEPE-AM
> > Note - Listed as 10,000 Watts it sounds like a whole lot more
> > to me {maybe 50 KW ?}
>
> Border area stations are authorized for HD, but did not believe 1700 had
> done it. The power is 10 kw day and 1 kw night. It's one of the Tijuana
> stations, like 1090 and 690, that truly keep to treaty notified power, per
> measurements done by an engineer in the market. The calls are XEPE now, and
> the website ishttp://www.cash1700.com/
-
- If you get many Mexican stations, you may like to keep this link
handy...
- Fred Cantú's very nice Mexico Radio & Television site
- http://www.mexicoradiotv.com/

d'Eduardo - Thank You for the Link. ~ RHF
.

Telamon

October 5th 07, 07:03 AM

In article m>,
SFTV_troy > wrote:

>
> Soundhaspriority wrote:
> > "SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
> > oups.com...
> > > Digital Radio Mondiale is also IBOC. (Designed to operate in analog/
> > > digital mode for shortwave and AM, and soon FM.)
> > >
> > > Do you hate DR Mondiale too?
> > >
> > I think the reaction you're getting is really due to
> >
> > 1. Reaction to the marketing hype, which in the case of Ibquity and DRM, is
> > the bold faced lie of CD quality.
> > 2. The way you promote the official position, as if you had a financial
> > stake. Regardless of whether you're just a bored engeineer, or a marketing
> > type lying his ass off, this is the way you come off.
>
>
> I see. Well I wrote roughly half of the criticisms section (and all
> of the HDR vs. EU DRM/DAB section) located here:
> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hd_radio#Comparison_to_EU.27s_Digital_Radio
> ----- I have also posted quite a number of negative comments on this
> forum such as, "HD Radio AM should be banned from nighttime
> broadcasting, until circa 2015, at which time analog can be switched-
> off and HD can take over".

< Snip >

Maybe you should consider thinking over what you intend to post a few
more nanoseconds. You might make more sense.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California