How the FCC could improve AM nighttime

[[email protected]]

- Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
make it all digital.


IMHO.

[Brian S]

On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
> IMHO.

I think the only AM's that should be allowed to run IBOC should be
limited to a nite time power limit of 1000 watts or less!
No way should a 50,000 watt AM be allowed to run IBOC at night.

[Ron Hardin]

Brian S wrote:
>
> On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > make it all digital.
> >
> > IMHO.
>
> I think the only AM's that should be allowed to run IBOC should be
> limited to a nite time power limit of 1000 watts or less!
> No way should a 50,000 watt AM be allowed to run IBOC at night.

1000 watts goes coast to coast. You just don't notice it because
there's a thousand other 1000 watt stations on at the same time, and
you're hearing them all at once.
--


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

[IBOCcrock]

On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
> IMHO.

Never happen - radio will always stay analog, as digital radio has
stalled in Canada and the US and interest is slowing in the UK.

[[email protected]]

On Oct 1, 11:46 am, IBOCcrock > wrote:
> On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
>
> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > make it all digital.
>
> > IMHO.
>
> Never happen - radio will always stay analog



Well I hope your wrong. I'm really enjoying these extra channels.
For example, my local FM station has just added a "Remix Top40"
channel which is basically all the current hits, but in a dance
format.

Cool.

And my Christain station has added "Gospel" on HD2 and "CCM for Teens"
on HD3.

Cool.

And my Rock station has added "Classic (60s-70s)" and "Indie Rock" to
its HD2 and HD3.

Cool.

This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?

[IBOCcrock]

On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
> IMHO.

Will never happen - digital radio around the world is DOA>

[David Eduardo]

"Brian S" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
>> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
>> make it all digital.
>>
>> IMHO.
>
> I think the only AM's that should be allowed to run IBOC should be
> limited to a nite time power limit of 1000 watts or less!
> No way should a 50,000 watt AM be allowed to run IBOC at night.
>

A 50 kw AM runs 500 watts of HD digital signal.

[g]

In article . com>, wrote:
>On Oct 1, 11:46 am, IBOCcrock > wrote:
>> On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
>>
>> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
>> > make it all digital.
>>
>> > IMHO.
>>
>> Never happen - radio will always stay analog
>
>
>
>Well I hope your wrong. I'm really enjoying these extra channels.
>For example, my local FM station has just added a "Remix Top40"
>channel which is basically all the current hits, but in a dance
>format.
>
>Cool.
>
>And my Christain station has added "Gospel" on HD2 and "CCM for Teens"
>on HD3.
>
>Cool.
>
>And my Rock station has added "Classic (60s-70s)" and "Indie Rock" to
>its HD2 and HD3.
>
>Cool.
>
>This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
>choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
>say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?

I really hate one format shows. I go through the cable TV music channels
and find them terribly boring, and allthough I like a minimum amount
of DJ's, a DJ is very necessary.

greg

[g]

In article . com>, RHF > wrote:
>On Oct 1, 9:31 am, Ron Hardin > wrote:
>> Brian S wrote:
>>
>> > On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
>> > > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
>> > > make it all digital.
>>
>> > > IMHO.
>>
>> > I think the only AM's that should be allowed to run IBOC should be
>> > limited to a nite time power limit of 1000 watts or less!
>> > No way should a 50,000 watt AM be allowed to run IBOC at night.
>>
>> 1000 watts goes coast to coast. You just don't notice it because
>> there's a thousand other 1000 watt stations on at the same time, and
>> you're hearing them all at once.

It would only go coast to coast in very good conditions. Conditions
vary a lot. Even 50K channels are not heard consistantly.

greg

>>
>>
>> On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.
>
>10 or 20 or 40 or more 1000 Watt AM/MW Radio Stations
>all on the same Frequency at Night Broadcasting in IBOC
>from Coast-to-Coast - OH THE DIGITAL HASH !
>
>Add in the Upper and Lower Adjacent Channels and
>Every One of their IBOC Broadcasters
>NOW YOU HAVE MEGA DIGITAL HASH NOISE
>UP AND DOWN THE AM/MW RADIO BAND !
>
>iboc the pain of radio listening makes people go tv ~ RHF
> .
>

[RHF]

On Oct 1, 10:29 am, wrote:
> On Oct 1, 11:46 am, IBOCcrock > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
>
> > > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > > make it all digital.
>
> > > IMHO.
>
> > Never happen - radio will always stay analog
>
> Well I hope your wrong. I'm really enjoying these extra channels.
> For example, my local FM station has just added a "Remix Top40"
> channel which is basically all the current hits, but in a dance
> format.
>
> Cool.
>
> And my Christain station has added "Gospel" on HD2 and "CCM for Teens"
> on HD3.
>
> Cool.
>
> And my Rock station has added "Classic (60s-70s)" and "Indie Rock" to
> its HD2 and HD3.
>
> Cool.
>
> This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
> choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
> say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?

SFTV,

AM/MW "HD" Radio is 'by-design' Engineered to Interfer
with the two Adjacent AM/MW Radio Channels at 10 kHz.
http://electronicdesign.com/Files/29/12194/Figure_02.gif

Study the AM/MW Radio Band Plan.
{ 10kHz Channels }

Study the FM Radio Band Plan.
{ 200kHz Channels }

They are two different schemes : IBOC will work in one
and trash the other.

I Ask Myself : What IBOC ?
All I See Is The Blinking Blue Light ! ~ RHF
In That Distant Land* Where IBOC Fears To Go :
Life Exists and Radio Listeners Live Beyond the 10mv/m Contour.
* Twain Harte, CA -USA-

[[email protected]]

On Oct 1, 1:29?pm, wrote:
> On Oct 1, 11:46 am, IBOCcrock > wrote:
>
> > On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
>
> > > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > > make it all digital.
>
> > > IMHO.
>
> > Never happen - radio will always stay analog
>
> Well I hope your wrong. I'm really enjoying these extra channels.
> For example, my local FM station has just added a "Remix Top40"
> channel which is basically all the current hits, but in a dance
> format.
>
> Cool.
>
> And my Christain station has added "Gospel" on HD2 and "CCM for Teens"
> on HD3.
>
> Cool.
>
> And my Rock station has added "Classic (60s-70s)" and "Indie Rock" to
> its HD2 and HD3.
>
> Cool.
>
> This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
> choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
> say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?

> This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
> choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
> say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?

"HD Hypocrisy"

"Here's a few more reasons why only iBiquity and a few clueless radio
group heads could make a big thing out of HD radio tagging... The very
damn radio stations that broadcast in HD offer no programming worth
listening to. HD Radio is a virtual sewer of formats owners don't want
on their terrestrial frequencies and other assorted garbage that no
one sane would listen to -- let alone spend money for new radios --
tagging or not."

http://insidemusicmedia.blogspot.com/2007/09/hd-hypocrisy.html

[[email protected]]

On Oct 1, 2:58?pm, RHF > wrote:
> On Oct 1, 10:29 am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Oct 1, 11:46 am, IBOCcrock > wrote:
>
> > > On Oct 1, 10:07 am, wrote:
>
> > > > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > > > make it all digital.
>
> > > > IMHO.
>
> > > Never happen - radio will always stay analog
>
> > Well I hope your wrong. I'm really enjoying these extra channels.
> > For example, my local FM station has just added a "Remix Top40"
> > channel which is basically all the current hits, but in a dance
> > format.
>
> > Cool.
>
> > And my Christain station has added "Gospel" on HD2 and "CCM for Teens"
> > on HD3.
>
> > Cool.
>
> > And my Rock station has added "Classic (60s-70s)" and "Indie Rock" to
> > its HD2 and HD3.
>
> > Cool.
>
> > This is what digital radio is all about: Increasing the number of
> > choices available to listeners. How can you possibly sit there and
> > say this is a bad idea for FM Radio?!?!?
>
> SFTV,
>
> AM/MW "HD" Radio is 'by-design' Engineered to Interfer
> with the two Adjacent AM/MW Radio Channels at 10 kHz.http://electronicdesign.com/Files/29/12194/Figure_02.gif
>
> Study the AM/MW Radio Band Plan.
> { 10kHz Channels }
>
> Study the FM Radio Band Plan.
> { 200kHz Channels }
>
> They are two different schemes : IBOC will work in one
> and trash the other.
>
> I Ask Myself : What IBOC ?
> All I See Is The Blinking Blue Light ! ~ RHF
> In That Distant Land* Where IBOC Fears To Go :
> Life Exists and Radio Listeners Live Beyond the 10mv/m Contour.
> * Twain Harte, CA -USA-
> .- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

IBOC will never work on the AM band, and HD-FM will fail from lack of
consumer interest.

[arthur[_5_]]

What is your problem besides the fact you insist on telling us how
much you do not know and your total technical incompetence.

Time to delete all of your posts

arthur



On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 07:07:27 -0700, wrote:
>
>- Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
>make it all digital.
>
>IMHO.

[Telamon]

In article om>,
wrote:

> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
>
> IMHO.

Seal a closet air tight and lock yourself in it.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

[Karl Uppiano]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.

I suppose the government can attempt to ban whatever it wants, whatever year
it wants, but here's an idea: Why not let the consumers decide? I like to
vote with my dollars and sense [sic].

[SFTV_troy]

On Oct 1, 10:59 pm, "Karl Uppiano" > wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > make it all digital.
>
> I suppose the government can attempt to ban whatever it wants, whatever year
> it wants, but here's an idea: Why not let the consumers decide? I like to
> vote with my dollars and sense [sic].

The government routinely limits natural monopolies like your local
electric company, the local phone company, the local cable company,
and of course the local radio spectrum..... in order to prevent chaos.

[Radio Engineering]

On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
> IMHO.

Digital radio of any flavor will suffer from the propagation
characteristics of the MW band. Let's leave AM well enough alone, and
use a tiny sliver of some of the reclaimed UHF TV spectrum or maybe an
old VHF TV channel, some band with more predictable and stable
propagation characteristics. I think that it serves the public
interest to reserve a tiny bit of spectrum for something other than
cell phones. Then again...

I really believe that mobile internet will supplant all of this anyway
within 10-15 years.

There is no single FM station that covers the entire Bay area
completely, and programming quality and relevance is the most
important issue.

AM is still useful and viable. The fact that it is being mis-
programmed in many markets shouldn't cause anybody to condemn the
whole band. If you serve your listeners and advertisers well by
creating unique content that people want, and distribute it in ways
that listeners want, you can do very well. I fully expect that our
'content' will become more available via many distribution channels
over time.

Newspapers are fighting similar battles right now, and are expected to
'invade' radio's turf with audio and video programming. I expect that
the content provided by newspapers, radio and TV will become more
merged and similar.
You'll see more "on demand" programming, and have many more listening
options. As broadcasting becomes more 'internet like', listeners will
expect audio and video content availability to be more internet like
as well, with many options (real-time "live" streaming, "on demand"
and the availability of individual program elements for inclusion into
personal and customized "playlists").

It's going to be a bumpy ride, but if anybody is paying attention,
we'll all be better served.

The stations that should be really concerned are the ones doing a lot
of syndicated programming. They won't have anything to sell once
distribution isn't limited by broadcast channels. If these guys want
to stay in business, they'll have to come up with some unique content,
which should be local. Generic music 'jukeboxes' will have similar
challenges, though there is certainly room for them.

[David Eduardo]

"Radio Engineering" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> There is no single FM station that covers the entire Bay area
> completely, and programming quality and relevance is the most
> important issue.

That is because radio markets are defined by the listenership to stations.
If the three AMs that keep the far reaching counties or split counties
(Contra Costa West) in the "market" decline significantly, the market will
be redefined. Several dozen markets are redefined every year, adding or
losing counties. Since AM listening is declining everywhere, if the sum of
KGO, KCBS and KNBR decline to a certain point, and no longer represent a
significant portion of listening in certain counties, Arbitron will redefine
San Francisco and more FMs will cover most of the market.
>
> AM is still useful and viable. The fact that it is being mis-
> programmed in many markets shouldn't cause anybody to condemn the
> whole band. If you serve your listeners and advertisers well by
> creating unique content that people want, and distribute it in ways
> that listeners want, you can do very well. I fully expect that our
> 'content' will become more available via many distribution channels
> over time.

Yeah, news talk and even sports (Detroit, yesterday, in fact) are moving to
FM.
>
> The stations that should be really concerned are the ones doing a lot
> of syndicated programming. They won't have anything to sell once
> distribution isn't limited by broadcast channels. If these guys want
> to stay in business, they'll have to come up with some unique content,
> which should be local. Generic music 'jukeboxes' will have similar
> challenges, though there is certainly room for them.
>

Actually, many of the jukeboxes have talent driven music shows that are, in
the mind of listeners, just as local as the ageing news and talk stations
that have not moved to FM.

[Steve[_12_]]

On Oct 2, 8:57 pm, "David Eduardo" > wrote:
> "Radio Engineering" > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > There is no single FM station that covers the entire Bay area
> > completely, and programming quality and relevance is the most
> > important issue.
>
> That is because radio markets are defined by the listenership to stations.
> If the three AMs that keep the far reaching counties or split counties
> (Contra Costa West) in the "market" decline significantly, the market will
> be redefined. Several dozen markets are redefined every year, adding or
> losing counties. Since AM listening is declining everywhere, if the sum of
> KGO, KCBS and KNBR decline to a certain point, and no longer represent a
> significant portion of listening in certain counties, Arbitron will redefine
> San Francisco and more FMs will cover most of the market.
>
>
>
> > AM is still useful and viable. The fact that it is being mis-
> > programmed in many markets shouldn't cause anybody to condemn the
> > whole band. If you serve your listeners and advertisers well by
> > creating unique content that people want, and distribute it in ways
> > that listeners want, you can do very well. I fully expect that our
> > 'content' will become more available via many distribution channels
> > over time.
>
> Yeah, news talk and even sports (Detroit, yesterday, in fact) are moving to
> FM.
>
>
>
> > The stations that should be really concerned are the ones doing a lot
> > of syndicated programming. They won't have anything to sell once
> > distribution isn't limited by broadcast channels. If these guys want
> > to stay in business, they'll have to come up with some unique content,
> > which should be local. Generic music 'jukeboxes' will have similar
> > challenges, though there is certainly room for them.
>
> Actually, many of the jukeboxes have talent driven music shows that are, in
> the mind of listeners, just as local as the ageing news and talk stations
> that have not moved to FM.

Is this what you learned when you attended Yale?

[Dorpmuller]

> - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> make it all digital.
>
>
> IMHO.

Shut HD the f##k off, period... whoever made the decision to allow nighttime
operation should be hung in public.

Rich

[Karl Uppiano]

"SFTV_troy" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Oct 1, 10:59 pm, "Karl Uppiano" > wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
>> > make it all digital.
>>
>> I suppose the government can attempt to ban whatever it wants, whatever
>> year
>> it wants, but here's an idea: Why not let the consumers decide? I like to
>> vote with my dollars and sense [sic].
>
> The government routinely limits natural monopolies like your local
> electric company, the local phone company, the local cable company,
> and of course the local radio spectrum..... in order to prevent chaos.

Of course they do. "We're from the government -- we're here to help". The
FCC has made a few good decisions in their time, and some really boneheaded
ones. There are plenty of examples of private standards consortia that do as
good or better job than the government at preventing chaos.

[RHF]

On Oct 2, 2:26 am, SFTV_troy > wrote:
> On Oct 1, 10:59 pm, "Karl Uppiano" > wrote:
>
> > > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > > make it all digital.
>
> > I suppose the government can attempt to ban whatever it wants, whatever year
> > it wants, but here's an idea: Why not let the consumers decide? I like to
> > vote with my dollars and sense [sic].
>

- The government routinely limits natural monopolies like your local
- electric company, the local phone company, the local cable company,
- and of course the local radio spectrum..... in order to prevent
chaos.

? 'limits' ? -sb- "regulates" {in the public interest}

[[email protected]]

Radio Engineering wrote:
> On Oct 1, 7:07 am, wrote:
> > - Ban HD Radio after sunset. Discontinue analog AM in 2015, and then
> > make it all digital.
> >
> > IMHO.
>
> Digital radio of any flavor will suffer from the propagation
> characteristics of the MW band.

Please explain why that is? I don't understand. After all, we
created modems operating at 30+ kbit/s over very nosiy analog
telephone lines w/ only 4 kHz of bandwidth. If we could do that, why
couldn't we use similar techniques for noisy braodcast channels?

Just curious.



> use a tiny sliver of some of the reclaimed UHF TV spectrum or maybe an
> old VHF TV channel, some band with more predictable and stable
> propagation characteristics. ...

I like that idea. Maybe a DAB system at around channel 51 and up.
Each of those channels is 6 megahertz wide, and DAB uses ~16 channels
of 1.5 megahertz each, so you'd only need to setaside UHF TV channels
51, 52, 53, 54, and maybe 55.

BTW:

You can't use "an old VHF TV channel" because VHF is already occupied
by TV channels 2 to 13. For example Philladelphia uses 2, 3, and 6.
And my local area uses 8, 10. Baltimore area uses 10, 11, 12, and
13. There really are no "unused VHF TV" channels.



> I really believe that mobile internet will supplant all
> of this anyway within 10-15 years.

Perhaps. Personally I'd rather have both. AM/FM bands (and maybe
DAB) along with wireless internet for my cell phone.



> There is no single FM station that covers the entire Bay area
> completely, and programming quality and relevance is the most
> important issue.
>
> AM is still useful and viable. The fact that it is being mis-
> programmed in many markets shouldn't cause anybody
> to condemn the whole band.

[Richard Crowley]

THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
(AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION

[Richard Crowley]

THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
(AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION

[Steve[_12_]]

On Oct 3, 8:53 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
> THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
> (AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
> PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION

Please drop rec.radio.shortwave as well.

[SFTV_troy]

On Oct 3, 8:08 am, Steve > wrote:
> On Oct 3, 8:53 am, "Richard Crowley" > wrote:
>
> > THIS DISCUSSION IS OFF-TOPIC FOR REC.AUDIO.TECH
> > (AND REC.AUDIO.CAR, FOR THAT MATTER)
> > PLEASE DROP REC.AUDIO.TECH FROM THIS DISCUSSION
>
> Please drop rec.radio.shortwave as well.




I don't see how a discussion about AM radio could be offtopic in a
Radio Tech group or a Car Audio group.