The Beatles killed British Beat [Archive]

Andre Jute

August 22nd 07, 01:32 AM

On Aug 21, 5:18 pm, Andre Jute > wrote:
> So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> discs, I came out with six discs:
>
> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> you want real music).
>
> Andre Jute

One of the worst things about the Beatles was their total lack of a
sense of humour. They had no conception of their won absurdity; they
took themselves totally seriously.

By contrast listen to Ray Ellington singing Left Hand Boogie, sending
up every single section of British society with perfect mimicry, or
Lyttleton's Bad Penny Blues, in which you hear his tongue in his cheek
as sends up his parody even as he perpetrates it.

And that smoke-roughened voice of Don Lang, give it to me any day over
the calculated crudities and fake working-class accents of the
Beatles.

Andre Jute
"The noted vacuum tube hi-fi designer, cyclist, music collector and
critic, author, economist, psychologist, soldier and advisor to
statesmen worldwide has made his home in the vicinity for many
years."
-- from his hometown's wiki, contributed by wreck.audio admirers

MiNe 109

August 22nd 07, 02:39 AM

In article . com>,
Andre Jute > wrote:

> So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> discs, I came out with six discs:
>
> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> you want real music).

Interesting take, sure to offend both Beatles fans and Chinese food fans.

Does your family really sleep on the floor?

Stephen

Eeyore

August 22nd 07, 03:18 AM

Andre Jute wrote:

> On Aug 21, 5:18 pm, Andre Jute > wrote:
> > So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> > took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> > collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> > in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> > discs, I came out with six discs:
> >
> > British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> > inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> > talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> > Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> > Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> > remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> > pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> > you want real music).
> >
> > Andre Jute
>
> One of the worst things about the Beatles was their total lack of a
> sense of humour. They had no conception of their won absurdity; they
> took themselves totally seriously.
>
> By contrast listen to Ray Ellington singing Left Hand Boogie, sending
> up every single section of British society with perfect mimicry, or
> Lyttleton's Bad Penny Blues, in which you hear his tongue in his cheek
> as sends up his parody even as he perpetrates it.
>
> And that smoke-roughened voice of Don Lang, give it to me any day over
> the calculated crudities and fake working-class accents of the
> Beatles.
>
> Andre Jute

BOF

George M. Middius

August 22nd 07, 03:29 AM

MiNe 109 said:

> > So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> > took the disc box from the top.
[snip]
> > The Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> > remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> > pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> > you want real music).

> Interesting take, sure to offend both Beatles fans and Chinese food fans.

I can't remember the last time you posted when you were obviously
buzzed. Let's see if you make any more sense than Joot.

> Does your family really sleep on the floor?

I will note that Scottie's, ah, "extended family" does not sleep on the
floor. They sleep *in* the floor because that's where their food is.

Eiron

August 22nd 07, 08:55 AM

Andre Jute wrote:
> On Aug 21, 5:18 pm, Andre Jute > wrote:
>> So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
>> took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
>> collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
>> in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
>> discs, I came out with six discs:
>>
>> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
>> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
>> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
>> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
>> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
>> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
>> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
>> you want real music).
>>
>> Andre Jute
>
> One of the worst things about the Beatles was their total lack of a
> sense of humour. They had no conception of their won absurdity; they
> took themselves totally seriously.
>
> By contrast listen to Ray Ellington singing Left Hand Boogie, sending
> up every single section of British society with perfect mimicry, or
> Lyttleton's Bad Penny Blues, in which you hear his tongue in his cheek
> as sends up his parody even as he perpetrates it.
>
> And that smoke-roughened voice of Don Lang, give it to me any day over
> the calculated crudities and fake working-class accents of the
> Beatles.

Good points, Andre. Not related to audio but good anyway.
Did you forget to use one of your many sockpuppets for your response?
It rather spoils the effect when you don't even pretend to be two people.

--
Eiron.

Patrick Turner

August 22nd 07, 12:01 PM

Andre Jute wrote:
>
> So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> discs, I came out with six discs:
>
> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> you want real music).
>
> Andre Jute
> "The noted vacuum tube hi-fi designer, cyclist, music collector and
> critic, author, economist, psychologist, soldier and advisor to
> statesmen worldwide has made his home in the vicinity for many years."
> -- from his hometown's website, contributed by wreck.audio admirers

In about 1962 when the Beatles were seen as the hottest thing,
I thought they were a bunch of sissies who couldn't do any real work,
and were forced into being right gits instead. And with girls's
haircuts.

I never bought a single Beatle recording, and didn't like the girls who
so stoopidly went so crazy over them.
A girl who went crazy over any pop moozic critter definately
was brainless, IMHO, I thought, at that time.

And when local bands in Masonic Halls played Beatle numbers
to the local ppl at the saturday night dances, all the guys here
would be singing along, "I wanna hold yoooour glaaaand."
The girls didn't seen to wake up, poor little naive innocents they
were...
I didn't go to all of the dances that were on but did go to maybe a
dozen,
over a year or two, and there was nothing to show for it.
And in those two last years of high school there were other things that
attracted me.

I hardly liked any pop music. Elvis and Orbison, and Lonnie Donegan and
co
all never registered with me, I thought all were
a bunch of overpaid BS artistes. Lonegan was funny, but sheesh,
like all of them, it wasn't ever worth buying a recording godammit.
My two sisters sneaked home with rock'n'roll muck and my parents told
them to return the records
to the shop for a refund. They accidently tripped over on the drive way,
and scratched side B they didn't like; sorry mum we had an accident, and
can't return the records.
My sisters went on to rebel bigtime against my fuddie duddie parents
attitudes
and the North Shore middleclass platitudes and stultifying mores.
I didn't give a stuff. Joan Baez seemed sexy, very rootable, and brought
life to
folkmusic. I found Woodie Guthrie, Pete Seeger and the american folk
scene plus much australiana
folkmusic had far more more meaning than the crap of pop. And I learnt
to play a guitar, and sing a bit, and
a friend and I performed at 'folk cafes'.

The Beach Boys also didn't resonate with me. At the magnificent Northern
Sydney beaches near where I grew up, and while aged between 15 and 17,
I needed not the slightest bit of advice about tying to crack onto some
crumpet
from the darn Beach Boys.
The reality of actual beach partying and the beach scene I found would
have been no different
to what went on in Califonia. Basically, not much going on.
Pretty boring really. Girls didn't root, the Pill was still only
experimental,
and whenever you did see a sheila who you didn't think was awkward and
ugly
she was always with some rich guy's son,
or no matter how long you staired at her, she never saw you.

I found the general message about adolescent lerve et all quite
sickening
although I tolerated all this noise coming from the attrocious
systems owned by other ppl of the day.

I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
music.
Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
Away from the beaches, and in older inner Sydney suburbs were girls who
were
working class, and who actually liked excitement, and not the unreal
treacle BS
being dished out in pop music. These sheilas prefered the Stones and
some wakier groups.
I did too, and I could resonate to "I can't get noooo, satis-faction".
Those girls tended to reach out, plug you in, and and give you some real
satisfaction.
They were doers, not stuck up richmen's daughters.
I dallied with Honda, Harley, and ended up with a much better
brand that stayed quiet, and went around corners well, stopped on a zac,
had oodles of oomph, and didn't require a re-build every fortnight.
This Good Woman of a motorcycle was of course a BMW.

Lord knows what German bands were playing back then but maybe I would
have
liked them better than the british and american trash, and the silly
aussies who
copied the OS styles, or screamed so loudly into microphones the 12AX7s
shattered.

I found the folk music of the 60s to be far more entrancing than the
silly muck of the mainstream pop.
AFAIWC, anyone singing something better sing something meaningful,
original, and intelligent, or shut up. I quite enjoyed Dylan. Peter Paul
and Mary were sort of OK,
but my group winged at the rampant commercialisation of folk music.
I didn't go to any big gig concerts.
All a waste of dough. Was I ever likely to spend
half a week's pay on some stoopid git screaming about lerve? No way.
I did go to a couple of Newport Jazz festivals, at Newport Beach,
in Sydney. I quite liked jazz. I still do. And classical, and always
have.
My mother liked Edith Piaf, and so did I. Frank Sinatra was a bit over
the top,
and no, I couldn't handle opera, but then there was no guidance
or any encouragement of artistic development for adolescent boys
in Sydney in 1962. Zilch.
And probably, I was culturally deprived in my formative years,
accentuated by the drowning sea of aural crap called pop music, and
everyone else
being occupied with the suburban existance, and too busy to go to
concerts where Mozart was played, and lazy too,
because they settled for watching TV at night....

Patrick Turner.

Eiron

August 22nd 07, 12:25 PM

Patrick Turner wrote:

> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
> music.
> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.

The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

--
Eiron.

Dave Plowman (News)

August 22nd 07, 02:26 PM

In article . com>,
Andre Jute > wrote:
> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> you want real music).

Perhaps the main difference you're hearing was in recording techniques.
There was a big difference in those few years - multi-tracks appeared. And
a good all in one performance will always beat a more sanitised but
possibly technically more 'perfect' multi-track one. IMHO.

But it's down to personal taste - like all music. I like all the artists
mentioned including the Beatles. And heard them all first time round. I
oft wonder where Alma Cogan may have ended up had she not died so young -
she improved so dramatically throughout her short career.

--
*The colder the X-ray table, the more of your body is required on it *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Keith G

August 22nd 07, 02:38 PM

"Eiron" > wrote in message
...
> Patrick Turner wrote:
>
>> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
>> music.
>> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
>
> The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed - especially
as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Patrick Turner

August 22nd 07, 02:59 PM

Eiron wrote:
>
> Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> > I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
> > music.
> > Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
>
> The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.

I didn't ride the Vincent at that speed at Bathurst in about 1965.

But Eric Debenham did.

He was a privateer motorcyclist who at that time owned a stable
of single and twin Vincents.

And he rarely ever bothered finishing a race on the twin, after setting
the lap record several times
with the twin much modded Rapide, and leaving everyone else on crap like
hotted up road bikes by Triumph and Matchless far behind.
He'd claim mechanical problems, and sometimes they were genuine claims,
as occasioanally things did prevent such blistering speed.
He held the outright lap record at Bathurst for years; none of the cars
were faster
until they began to use downforce contouring.

Just outside the NSW town of Bathurst is the Mt Panorama course which is
up around the mountain
and along beside some cow paddocks. Its been used for motor racing for
many years.
http://www.bathurst-nsw.com/MtPanorama.html
In 1966 the main straight was a mile or more long, but because of the
absurd
speeds people began to clock, and a number of horrendous accidents, they
whacked a chicane
in the middle of the straight, so high speeds will ever be seen again.

I saw another great guy, Ron Toombs killed on a Yamaha 350 about that
time, when it seized up
coming down the twisty hill bends before the straight.
He slid along the arm-co fence, and hit a tree headfirst at about 80mph,
and wouldn't have felt nuffink.
Ron also rode what was known as the Henderson Matchless, a modified
derivation of 7R-AJS,
but his had a shorter stroke and 4 valves in the head, OHC, and it
really flew, for a 500, thanks to Hendo's tuning abilities.
But then the japanese bikes were just starting to eclipse the
four strokes and the Yammy 350cc 2 stroke was about as quick as the 500
single.

Bathurst used to be the scene of wild riots and very extreme behaviour
when the bikes raced there. The police often lost.

Hundreds of bikies raged up/down the main street of town,
lotsa argy bargy.

In 1966, when I first went to Bathurst on my Matcho 500 single, and went
for a hamburger in town,
a pale blue Ford Customline pulled up and a big fat cop
asked me to leave town pronto.
"You're makin the town look untidy son.." he drawled.

He wasn't the type who'd smile if I'd replied with
"Well I forgot my tuxedo, and the Rolls is being repaired.."

I could have had a field day in a court, because my dad was a Mayor of
Ku-ringai at the time,
and well connected to good lawyers. But I just left, after buying ther
burger off the
nervous greeks in the milkbar.

I was unaware of the history then, but a few years later on another
visit,
the Hell's angels had a field day win when they had police huddled in
fear of their lives for
what was a "colourful night's activities on the mountain". Sticks of
dynamite
and molotov cocktails were used, and part of the police mountain
compound was torched.

Boys will be boys.

The car racing ppl were all nice and tame....

Patrick Turner.

>
> --
> Eiron.

Eiron

August 22nd 07, 03:32 PM

Patrick Turner wrote:
>
> Eiron wrote:
>> Patrick Turner wrote:
>>
>>> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
>>> music.
>>> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
>> The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.
>
> I didn't ride the Vincent at that speed at Bathurst in about 1965.
>
> But Eric Debenham did.
>
> He was a privateer motorcyclist who at that time owned a stable
> of single and twin Vincents.

Thanks. I just looked him up on the interweb thingy.
That Norvin wasn't quite a standard Vincent!

While we are on the subject did you know that Jack Findlay died recently?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/04/db0401.xml

--
Eiron.

John Stone

August 22nd 07, 06:14 PM

On 8/22/07 6:01 AM, in article , "Patrick
Turner" > wrote:

> I found the folk music of the 60s to be far more entrancing than the
> silly muck of the mainstream pop.
> AFAIWC, anyone singing something better sing something meaningful,
> original, and intelligent, or shut up. I quite enjoyed Dylan.

Dylan got tired of the "folk" scene rather quickly. Did you freak out when
he went "electric"?

George M. Middius

August 22nd 07, 07:24 PM

John Stone said:

> Dylan got tired of the "folk" scene rather quickly. Did you freak out when
> he went "electric"?

Dylan switching to an electric guitar didn't help. You could still hear
his voice.

Mike Mueller

August 23rd 07, 01:23 AM

Andre Jute wrote:

> So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> discs, I came out with six discs:
>
> British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> you want real music).
>
> Andre Jute
> "The noted vacuum tube hi-fi designer, cyclist, music collector and
> critic, author, economist, psychologist, soldier and advisor to
> statesmen worldwide has made his home in the vicinity for many years."
> -- from his hometown's website, contributed by wreck.audio admirers
>
I have a friend who was given the task of re-engineering some beach boy
tunes . He had the pleasure of working with the original tape masters.
As a favor to me , he recorded a cd of the boys sans back-up.
The beach boys could sing. And they harmonized chillingly well.
Knock the california surf sound if you must, but it had its time and
place in music history.

As for the Beatles...... Sorry my friend. They may have been limp at
first, but their music was composed well and 45 years later still is a
joy too listen too.
Mike Mueller

Jenn

August 23rd 07, 01:45 AM

In article >,
mike mueller > wrote:

> Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > So as not to disturb my family, sleeping on the floors below me, I
> > took the disc box from the top. It turned out to be my rock'n'roll
> > collection, which is pretty modest at about 250 discs or sets. Putting
> > in my hand with closed eyes, taking potluck, grabbing a handful of
> > discs, I came out with six discs:
> >
> > British Beat before the Beatles, organized by years, 1956 to 1962
> > inclusive, EMI compilation issued 1993. My God, there was some raw
> > talent back then! Alma Cogan, Frankie Vaughan, The Southlanders,
> > Lonnie Donegan, Humphry Lyttleton, all just off the 1956 disc. The
> > Beatles, by comparison, are homogenized, sanitized; in retrospect they
> > remind me of nothing so much as Euro-vegetables: universal, bland, pre-
> > pureed, the perfect chinese taste (right after you finish listening
> > you want real music).
> >
> > Andre Jute
> > "The noted vacuum tube hi-fi designer, cyclist, music collector and
> > critic, author, economist, psychologist, soldier and advisor to
> > statesmen worldwide has made his home in the vicinity for many years."
> > -- from his hometown's website, contributed by wreck.audio admirers
> >
> I have a friend who was given the task of re-engineering some beach boy
> tunes . He had the pleasure of working with the original tape masters.
> As a favor to me , he recorded a cd of the boys sans back-up.
> The beach boys could sing. And they harmonized chillingly well.
> Knock the california surf sound if you must, but it had its time and
> place in music history.
>
> As for the Beatles...... Sorry my friend. They may have been limp at
> first, but their music was composed well and 45 years later still is a
> joy too listen too.
> Mike Mueller

Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a success
for these reasons, IMO:
1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.
2. Rock solid rhythm. I think that there is a lot to be critical of in
Ringo's drumming (fills in weird places, for example), but he's like a
freaking digital clock. So is Paul on bass. Unconventional style?
Sure. But SUPER aware of time.
3. George Martin; 'nuff said.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 01:58 AM

Jenn said:

> Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a success
> for these reasons, IMO:

I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
the most musically literate people.

> 1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
> but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.

Which grouping has "Get Back" and "Hey Jude"?

> 3. George Martin; 'nuff said.

Was he the original drummer? Forgive my ignorance of Beatles trivia.
I can't wait for Jeopardy to start up again.

MiNe 109

August 23rd 07, 02:58 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> Jenn said:
>
> > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a success
> > for these reasons, IMO:
>
> I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> the most musically literate people.
>
> > 1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
> > but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.
>
> Which grouping has "Get Back" and "Hey Jude"?

This'll help you catch up:

http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml

> > 3. George Martin; 'nuff said.
>
> Was he the original drummer? Forgive my ignorance of Beatles trivia.
> I can't wait for Jeopardy to start up again.

He knew Goons.

Stephen

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 04:14 AM

MiNe 109 said:

> > > 1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
> > > but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.

> > Which grouping has "Get Back" and "Hey Jude"?

> This'll help you catch up:
> http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml

kee-rist!

"In 1989 the American musicologist Alan W. Pollack started to analyze
the songs of the Beatles. He published his first results on internet.
In 1991 — after he had finished the work on 28 songs — he bravely
decided to do the whole lot of them. About ten years later, in 2000
he completed the analysis of the official Beatles' canon, consisting
of 187 songs and 25 covers."

"What's wrong with this picture?" asked the student of the master. The
student wondered what on earth would motivate the author of the above-
referenced page to characterize the burrowing behavior of a compulsive
Beatles freak as "brave". The student shook his head at the
characterization of an oeuvre that includes "Good Day Sunshine", "Day
Tripper", and other vapid exercising in empty rhyming as a "canon". The
student closed the book before contemplating how much an "analysis" of
lyrics like "yeah yeah yeah" could yield in the way of insight.

The master held a grim silence, fixing a beady stare on the student
throughout his sacreligious assault. No words of enlightenment issued
from the master, and P. McCartney got another divorce while penning such
immortal classics as "Jet".

Goodnight, Mr. Pollack. A person of healthy mind does not refer to
himself in the third person. George is getting upset!

MiNe 109

August 23rd 07, 05:29 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > > > 1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
> > > > but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.
>
> > > Which grouping has "Get Back" and "Hey Jude"?
>
> > This'll help you catch up:
> > http://www.icce.rug.nl/~soundscapes/DATABASES/AWP/awp-notes_on.shtml
>
> kee-rist!
>
> "In 1989 the American musicologist Alan W. Pollack started to analyze
> the songs of the Beatles. He published his first results on internet.
> In 1991 — after he had finished the work on 28 songs — he bravely
> decided to do the whole lot of them. About ten years later, in 2000
> he completed the analysis of the official Beatles' canon, consisting
> of 187 songs and 25 covers."
>
> "What's wrong with this picture?" asked the student of the master. The
> student wondered what on earth would motivate the author of the above-
> referenced page to characterize the burrowing behavior of a compulsive
> Beatles freak as "brave". The student shook his head at the
> characterization of an oeuvre that includes "Good Day Sunshine", "Day
> Tripper", and other vapid exercising in empty rhyming as a "canon". The
> student closed the book before contemplating how much an "analysis" of
> lyrics like "yeah yeah yeah" could yield in the way of insight.
>
> The master held a grim silence, fixing a beady stare on the student
> throughout his sacreligious assault. No words of enlightenment issued
> from the master, and P. McCartney got another divorce while penning such
> immortal classics as "Jet".
>
> Goodnight, Mr. Pollack. A person of healthy mind does not refer to
> himself in the third person. George is getting upset!

It's like classic Steve Allen!

Stephen

Dave Plowman (News)

August 23rd 07, 09:58 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a
> > success for these reasons, IMO:

> I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> the most musically literate people.

So you don't like The Beatles and Dylan.

Your loss.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 02:11 PM

Dork The Plowborg said:

> > > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a
> > > success for these reasons, IMO:

> > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> > the most musically literate people.

> So you don't like The Beatles and Dylan.

Untrue. Nobody likes you, though -- you can take that to the bank.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 02:25 PM

MiNe 109 said:

> > "What's wrong with this picture?" asked the student of the master.

> > Goodnight, Mr. Pollack. A person of healthy mind does not refer to
> > himself in the third person. George is getting upset!

> It's like classic Steve Allen!

Yes, Master.

Dave Plowman (News)

August 23rd 07, 02:39 PM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> Dork The Plowborg said:

> > > > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a
> > > > success for these reasons, IMO:

> > > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition
> > > among the most musically literate people.

> > So you don't like The Beatles and Dylan.

> Untrue.

Right. Sorry for forgetting you're a regular liar.

> Nobody likes you, though -- you can take that to the bank.

Two in one post. Going for the record?

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Patrick Turner

August 23rd 07, 02:45 PM

Keith G wrote:
>
> "Eiron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Patrick Turner wrote:
> >
> >> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They made
> >> music.
> >> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at Bathurst.
> >
> > The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more details.
>
> Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed - especially
> as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??

Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.

On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the others.

The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im Ron
Toomb's case.

The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
one long straight
without the chicane put there later.

So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.

I have no idea what had been done to it.

Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
Indian on the salt at Utah.

He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.

I have not checked the racing achive records of the relevant clubs,
but your'e welcome to search.

Patrick Turner.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 02:48 PM

York Plowborg said:

> > > > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition
> > > > among the most musically literate people.

> > > So you don't like The Beatles and Dylan.

> > Untrue.

> Right. Sorry for forgetting you're a regular liar.

Is that really what's going on here, Plowie? More likely, you don't read
very well.

> > Nobody likes you, though -- you can take that to the bank.

> Two in one post. Going for the record?

You're babbling, and not for the first time. Getting treatment soon?

Patrick Turner

August 23rd 07, 03:15 PM

John Stone wrote:
>
> On 8/22/07 6:01 AM, in article , "Patrick
> Turner" > wrote:
>
> > I found the folk music of the 60s to be far more entrancing than the
> > silly muck of the mainstream pop.
> > AFAIWC, anyone singing something better sing something meaningful,
> > original, and intelligent, or shut up. I quite enjoyed Dylan.
>
> Dylan got tired of the "folk" scene rather quickly. Did you freak out when
> he went "electric"?

He just gave us a message, then moved to entertainment.

His Masters of War resonated with me at the time.

When Dylan was protesting, 1/2 Oz were against the Vietnam war, and 1/2
wondered
why the west didn't just nuke Hanoi, and be done with it.

Robert McNamara later said oh what a stoopid thing that war all was.

But my 1/2 of the people already knew before it started in earnest.
We all remember the lies and BS that our Govt spewed out to us.
Oh, and in Vietanm, there were no weapons of mass destruction,
but there were a lot of angry ants in black pyjamas who didn't like our
interference.
We were told we had to got to Vietnam to stop the yellow peril movin
south.
What absolute **** twitery!

1/2 the people now wanna nuke Iraq and Iran while they are at it.

But they won't, I don't think, ever, because there is too much oil
sloshing about.

But there hasn't been much of a protest over Iraq because not enough
bodies have arrived back in Oz or the US.

And when the US are forced to get out of Iraq,
and while complaining that the local Iraqi Govt was dysfunctional,
perhaps a little bit more good old fashioned bloodletting will
happen, as it has over the last 10,000 years,
and it will all sort itself out.

Eventually, maybe the oil will be sold in the usual way and without
having to steal a whole country, and as usual a few will get
stoinkingly rich while most Iraquis live on in abject povety.

As usual, in 30 years 1/2 the ppl will say the US could have won in
Iraq,
and if only Congress had allowed enough troops, and been allowed to
simply shoot all male
Iraqis, until an unconditioal surrender was begged for by the last six
guys left.
And they'll say what a shame people voted
the Repubs down, and how they should have spent a couple
of trillion bucks more on the war.
Yeah, sure.
Its human nature to muddle through things, and for populations to be
divided on issues.

Anyway, expect your gas prices to rise....

Patrick Turner.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 03:27 PM

Patrick Turner said:

> When Dylan was protesting, 1/2 Oz were against the Vietnam war, and 1/2
> wondered why the west didn't just nuke Hanoi, and be done with it.

That's the kind of thinking you get from people who adopt an all-beer
diet.

robert casey

August 23rd 07, 03:36 PM

George M. Middius wrote:

>
> Patrick Turner said:
>
>
>>When Dylan was protesting, 1/2 Oz were against the Vietnam war, and 1/2
>>wondered why the west didn't just nuke Hanoi, and be done with it.
>
>
> That's the kind of thinking you get from people who adopt an all-beer
> diet.
>
>
>
That, and that the USSR was backing Hanoi, which would make dropping
nukes a little bit risky. Besides, dropping nukes makes for bad press...

robert casey

August 23rd 07, 03:38 PM

>
> Maybe the most musically literate people don't find it vapid. For
> instance, you mentioned "Good Day Sunshine," which has unbalancing
> metrical tricks in the chorus. In context, it follows "She Said, She
> Said" which also has non-standard meter but in a contrasted style. No
> amount of analysis will make you like the song if you don't, but there's
> plenty of musical interest there.
>
> Stephen

Besides, their music had a good beat.... :-)

Keith G

August 23rd 07, 03:55 PM

"Patrick Turner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Keith G wrote:
>>
>> "Eiron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > Patrick Turner wrote:
>> >
>> >> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They
>> >> made
>> >> music.
>> >> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at
>> >> Bathurst.
>> >
>> > The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more
>> > details.
>>
>> Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed -
>> especially
>> as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??
>
> Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.

OK, I didn't realise you were talking about a *timed event*!

>
> On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
> Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the
> others.
>
> The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im
> Ron
> Toomb's case.
>
> The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
> one long straight
> without the chicane put there later.
>
> So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
> The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.
>
> I have no idea what had been done to it.

Blower?

>
> Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
> Indian on the salt at Utah.
>
> He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.

Love the film and watch it on a regular basis, that bloke is ever a hero
in my book - even if the movie fudges the facts!

When I was a schoolkid my school was two doors up from the then
recently-closed Vincent factory and opposite, over the 'bowling green',
was George Brown's motorcycle shop. I was the only snot-nosed kid he let
hang around in there, looking at his 'Neros' and asking hundreds of
stoopid questions:

http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/1963_super_nero.html

(Didn't realise/know back then the orange patches on his face was early
*plastic surgery*!!)

See: "George had a secret ambition to be the first British rider to top
200mph on British soil, over a measured distance. He had already been
docked on Super Nero over a finish line at Elvington Speed Meeting at
236mph." I also harbour a secret ambition to do 200mph (just the once)
on a bike before it's too late, but not sure I'll ever get it together.
My present bike:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybikes/Suzuki%20GSX1400.jpg

....easily (and regularly) beats the above-mentioned 'AJS and Norton'
speeds (usually less than 3 minutes from me leaving my garage and after
a good warm-up, naturally!) -it's got the grunt but doesn't have the top
end....

Or a fairing....

Peter Wieck

August 23rd 07, 04:03 PM

On Aug 23, 9:39 am, "Dave Plowman (News)" >
wrote:
> In article >,
> George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
>
> > Dork The Plowborg said:
> > > > > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a
> > > > > success for these reasons, IMO:
> > > > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition
> > > > among the most musically literate people.
> > > So you don't like The Beatles and Dylan.
> > Untrue.
>
> Right. Sorry for forgetting you're a regular liar.
>
> > Nobody likes you, though -- you can take that to the bank.
>
> Two in one post. Going for the record?
>
> --
> *Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*
>
> Dave Plowman London SW
> To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave:

Keep a couple of things in mind.

a) The "commander" is pretty much obsessed with with his (?) personal
chimera being Arny.
b) He also is conjoined with Andre Jute either by leash or flesh, and
so is not permitted to participate in any positive way (at least in
this venue).
c) Were both Arny to disappear and Jute to be aflicted with taste or
the services of a good surgeon, the commander would shrivel up and
blow away as his entire substance and reason for living would be
withdrawn.

After which, the adage of wrestling with a pig comes to mind. You
provide him substance and validity where none exists by his own
efforts.

Peter Wieck
Wyncote, PA

Patrick Turner

August 23rd 07, 04:07 PM

"George M. Middius" wrote:
>
> Patrick Turner said:
>
> > When Dylan was protesting, 1/2 Oz were against the Vietnam war, and 1/2
> > wondered why the west didn't just nuke Hanoi, and be done with it.
>
> That's the kind of thinking you get from people who adopt an all-beer
> diet.

Budwieser?

Patrick Turner.

Jenn

August 23rd 07, 04:15 PM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> Jenn said:
>
> > Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a success
> > for these reasons, IMO:
>
> I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> the most musically literate people.
>
> > 1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
> > but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.
>
> Which grouping has "Get Back" and "Hey Jude"?

Matter of opinion, of course. IMO, Get Back is a cute, catchy little
rock tune by Paul ( I sometimes include it in my acoustic guitar act),
but not super long-lasting from a historical POV. Jude a a really fine
pop melody.

>
> > 3. George Martin; 'nuff said.
>
> Was he the original drummer? Forgive my ignorance of Beatles trivia.
> I can't wait for Jeopardy to start up again.

He produced most of their recordings. He was responsible for all of the
orchestration stuff; cello on Yesterday, orchestra on Penny Lane,
recording "tricks" on Sgt. Pepper's album, etc.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 04:21 PM

MiNe 109 said:

> > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> > the most musically literate people.

> Maybe the most musically literate people don't find it vapid. For
> instance, you mentioned "Good Day Sunshine," which has unbalancing
> metrical tricks in the chorus. In context, it follows "She Said, She
> Said" which also has non-standard meter but in a contrasted style. No
> amount of analysis will make you like the song if you don't, but there's
> plenty of musical interest there.

Hiding behind technical stuff again, I see. You still haven't proven you
know a mho from a tire tread.

Being an unschooled layman, I was talking about the superficial bit I
can grasp -- the sticky, gummy lyrics. YMMV.

Patrick Turner

August 23rd 07, 04:33 PM

Keith G wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Keith G wrote:
> >>
> >> "Eiron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > Patrick Turner wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I did like BSA and Matchless and Norton, oh, and Vincent. They
> >> >> made
> >> >> music.
> >> >> Especially The Vincent, and at 166MPH on Conrod Straight at
> >> >> Bathurst.
> >> >
> >> > The older you get the faster you were. Let's have some more
> >> > details.
> >>
> >> Yes, I'd be interested to hear how they clocked the speed -
> >> especially
> >> as the standard speedos were only calibrated to 150 mph (AFAIK)....??
> >
> > Speeds were recorded by the marshals on the course.
>
> OK, I didn't realise you were talking about a *timed event*!
>
> >
> > On the day I was there his speed was announced on the PA.
> > Once Eric hit Conrod straight he just rocketed away from all the
> > others.
> >
> > The single 500 7R-AJS and Nortons were doing 125mph, maybe more, im
> > Ron
> > Toomb's case.
> >
> > The Conrod Straight is 1.9km long, or 1.2 miles, and at that time was
> > one long straight
> > without the chicane put there later.
> >
> > So to get an extra 41mph with 1,000cc seems about right.
> > The bike wasn't a stock standard Vincent.
> >
> > I have no idea what had been done to it.
>
> Blower?

I have no idea.
>
> >
> > Bear in mind Bert Munro's speed on a highly modified
> > Indian on the salt at Utah.
> >
> > He still has the record for the World's Fastest Indian.
>
> Love the film and watch it on a regular basis, that bloke is ever a hero
> in my book - even if the movie fudges the facts!

Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
enough to have everything in it.

But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
Indian to go.

Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and so
on...

But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather advanced
age.

Its a risk, life.

Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
pressure, but
maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."

He died on his exercise bike at 91.

What a man!

>
> When I was a schoolkid my school was two doors up from the then
> recently-closed Vincent factory and opposite, over the 'bowling green',
> was George Brown's motorcycle shop. I was the only snot-nosed kid he let
> hang around in there, looking at his 'Neros' and asking hundreds of
> stoopid questions:
>
> http://www.motorbike-search-engine.co.uk/classic_bikes/1963_super_nero.html
>
> (Didn't realise/know back then the orange patches on his face was early
> *plastic surgery*!!)
>
> See: "George had a secret ambition to be the first British rider to top
> 200mph on British soil, over a measured distance. He had already been
> docked on Super Nero over a finish line at Elvington Speed Meeting at
> 236mph." I also harbour a secret ambition to do 200mph (just the once)
> on a bike before it's too late, but not sure I'll ever get it together.
> My present bike:
>
> http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybikes/Suzuki%20GSX1400.jpg
>
> ...easily (and regularly) beats the above-mentioned 'AJS and Norton'
> speeds (usually less than 3 minutes from me leaving my garage and after
> a good warm-up, naturally!) -it's got the grunt but doesn't have the top
> end....
>
> Or a fairing....

That Nero was somethin.

IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
twin.

Its what you do with the cc you got that counts, not so much the speed
go.

If you got a record riding a tiny tidler 50cc 4 stroke V twin, or even a
V6,
its really something, and you get to do mosquito sound effects.

But Nero must have swallowed years of a guy's life in time spent.

None of this bolt on a fairing, jump on and ride fast business.

Probably the latest Honda single 600c engines with 4 valve heads are
more powerful than
most home made or altered manx nortons or 7R ajs ever were.

In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too easy,
and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.

I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
possible.

Patrick Turner.

Keith G

August 23rd 07, 05:00 PM

"Patrick Turner" > wrote

> Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
> the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
> enough to have everything in it.

No, but I think it got the flavour over quite well. The bit that
irritates me is the actual speed runs are over all too quick at the end!

>
> But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
> Indian to go.

Sure.

>
> Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and
> so
> on...
>
> But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
> and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather
> advanced
> age.
>
> Its a risk, life.

No, not always - life on the end of a silly games console is low-risk
compared to climbing on a (what?) thirty year old, hand-built bitsa bike
and punching it 200mph on a salt flat....

>
> Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
> said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
> An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
> pressure, but
> maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."
>
> He died on his exercise bike at 91.
>
> What a man!

This bloke was a bit of a *geezer* too:

http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/woodland/murphy.html

> That Nero was somethin.

Quite tiny, standing next to it actually!

>
> IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
> twin.

Of course...

> In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
> engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
> but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too
> easy,
> and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.

Today it's mostly a question of fuelling and ignition mapping - damn
near anything'll do a hundred if set up for it!

>
> I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
> possible.

**** bicycling - far too dangerous! ;-)

Hypertension

August 23rd 07, 06:25 PM

"Patrick Turner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> "George M. Middius" wrote:
>>
>> That's the kind of thinking you get from people who adopt an all-beer
>> diet.
>
> Budwieser?
>
> Patrick Turner.

Beer makes you smart. After all, it made Bud wiser.

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 08:04 PM

The IKYABWAI Idiot stammered:

> > > > I'm always astonished that such vapid music achieves recognition among
> > > > the most musically literate people.

> > > Maybe the most musically literate people don't find it vapid. For
> > > instance, you mentioned "Good Day Sunshine," which has unbalancing
> > > metrical tricks in the chorus. In context, it follows "She Said, She
> > > Said" which also has non-standard meter but in a contrasted style. No
> > > amount of analysis will make you like the song if you don't, but there's
> > > plenty of musical interest there.

> > Hiding behind technical stuff again, I see. You still haven't proven you
> > know a mho from a tire tread.

> > Being an unschooled layman, I was talking about the superficial bit I
> > can grasp -- the sticky, gummy lyrics.

> They remind George how empty his life is.

No pity for you!

George M. Middius

August 23rd 07, 09:34 PM

MiNe 109 said:

> > > Maybe the most musically literate people don't find it vapid. For
> > > instance, you mentioned "Good Day Sunshine," which has unbalancing
> > > metrical tricks in the chorus. In context, it follows "She Said, She
> > > Said" which also has non-standard meter but in a contrasted style. No
> > > amount of analysis will make you like the song if you don't, but there's
> > > plenty of musical interest there.

> > Hiding behind technical stuff again, I see. You still haven't proven you
> > know a mho from a tire tread.

> 3+3+2. That's not too technical, is it?

No, but it is obscure, even by your standards.

> Did you miss where I respected
> the primacy of opinion?

That was sweet. Thank you. I should have acknowledged it before.

My problem, if you can call it that, is that I dislike most of the FF's
songs. I did like "Here Comes the Sun" when George Harrison performed
it, but Richie Havens annoyed the crap out of me.

> That tire tread thing, is that something to do with PT's motorcycles?

Nope. Just general Kroo-mockery. Who is PT, my dear Professor Obscuro?

> > Being an unschooled layman, I was talking about the superficial bit I
> > can grasp -- the sticky, gummy lyrics. YMMV.

> I was confused by your reference to the "vapid music." I should have
> known you really meant the words, but now I'm really confused 'cuz you
> seemed to diss Dylan, too, and he's known for words.

I dissed his singing, a viewpoint in which I'm hardly alone. Dylan took
pains to avoid describing himself as a musician. As a songwriter/poet,
Dylan was the star of his generation. Did you see that lame interview he
did on 60 Minutes? "I have no idea how I wrote those songs, and no way
can I possibly do it again."

Aren't some of the Beatles' songs pretty simplistic and not worthy of
musicological analysis? Kaufman notwithstanding, of course.

Who was your favorite Beatle?

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 12:28 AM

MiNe 109 said:

> > > > Hiding behind technical stuff again, I see. You still haven't proven you
> > > > know a mho from a tire tread.

> > > 3+3+2. That's not too technical, is it?

> > No, but it is obscure, even by your standards.

> It's the rhythmic stress of the chorus of "Good Day Sunshine."

My turn to pull a trotksy: "Yawn."

> > My problem, if you can call it that, is that I dislike most of the FF's
> > songs. I did like "Here Comes the Sun" when George Harrison performed
> > it, but Richie Havens annoyed the crap out of me.

> Good for those who think Harrison wasn't earnest enough.

I liked his detached, analytical music. How about "My Sweet Lord"? Did
it make you puke, or did you like humming along?

> > > That tire tread thing, is that something to do with PT's motorcycles?

> > Nope. Just general Kroo-mockery. Who is PT, my dear Professor Obscuro?

> Patrick Turner. The rest of the thread is going on about British
> motorcycles.

Is he the octogenarian who can't spell Budweiser?

> > > > Being an unschooled layman, I was talking about the superficial bit I
> > > > can grasp -- the sticky, gummy lyrics. YMMV.

> > > I was confused by your reference to the "vapid music." I should have
> > > known you really meant the words, but now I'm really confused 'cuz you
> > > seemed to diss Dylan, too, and he's known for words.

> > I dissed his singing, a viewpoint in which I'm hardly alone. Dylan took
> > pains to avoid describing himself as a musician. As a songwriter/poet,
> > Dylan was the star of his generation. Did you see that lame interview he
> > did on 60 Minutes? "I have no idea how I wrote those songs, and no way
> > can I possibly do it again."

> I've seen someone spontaneously 'channel' a poem the way Dylan implies
> he did, so I can't discount it totally. Musically, he's been known to
> borrow a folk-tune or two.

Maybe the real story is he quit dropping acid.

> > Aren't some of the Beatles' songs pretty simplistic and not worthy of
> > musicological analysis? Kaufman notwithstanding, of course.

> Some, but most have some kind of harmonic or rhythmic twist unusual by
> the standards of their day. Look what this guy gets out of a D chord in
> one song:
> http://byneddiejingo.blogspot.com/2007/08/close-your-eyes-and-ill-kiss-you.html

Yes, he certainly seems obsessive. Somebody needs to get a new career.

BTW, your links keep breaking up. Haven't you lectured Scottie about
that?

> There is such a thing as over-analysis:
> http://beatles.ncf.ca/bill_deyoung_reporting_on_the_paul_is_dead_hoax.ht ml

All fun & games. Or at least that's what I thought about the whole
"walrus" business at the time.

> > Who was your favorite Beatle?

> George and Ringo are the least dislikable public figures. I respect
> John's wit, Paul's melodic gift, Ringo's rhythm and George's second
> career.

Never mind.

dizzy

August 24th 07, 02:03 AM

Jenn wrote:

> mike mueller > wrote:
>>
>> As for the Beatles...... Sorry my friend. They may have been limp at
>> first, but their music was composed well and 45 years later still is a
>> joy too listen too.
>> Mike Mueller
>
>Besides the whole image/sociology thing, the Beatles were/are a success
>for these reasons, IMO:
>1. Genius song writing. Sure the very early stuff is fairly fluffy,
>but later, the three writers turned out stuff for the ages.
>2. Rock solid rhythm. I think that there is a lot to be critical of in
>Ringo's drumming (fills in weird places, for example), but he's like a
>freaking digital clock. So is Paul on bass. Unconventional style?
>Sure. But SUPER aware of time.
>3. George Martin; 'nuff said.

Anyone who doesn't like the Beatles is retarded.

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 02:44 AM

dippy eats his own doo-doo.

> Anyone who doesn't like the Beatles is retarded.

Who's in love with Arnii Krooborg, dickie?

Patrick Turner

August 24th 07, 03:10 AM

Keith G wrote:
>
> "Patrick Turner" > wrote
>
> > Yes, that movie like all movies mucks about with
> > the procession of events in Bert's life, but 2 hours isn't long
> > enough to have everything in it.
>
> No, but I think it got the flavour over quite well. The bit that
> irritates me is the actual speed runs are over all too quick at the end!
>
> >
> > But I think you'll find Bert's Indian was the fastest anyone got an
> > Indian to go.
>
> Sure.
>
> >
> > Plenty of much faster bikes now, some with triple harley engines and
> > so
> > on...
> >
> > But Bert was just a low key poor ******* from a backwater country,
> > and he just goes to the US to go a little fast, and at a rather
> > advanced
> > age.
> >
> > Its a risk, life.
>
> No, not always - life on the end of a silly games console is low-risk
> compared to climbing on a (what?) thirty year old, hand-built bitsa bike
> and punching it 200mph on a salt flat....
>
> >
> > Hubert Opperman, the great Australian cyclist of the 1920s and 30s
> > said as he got older, " when your'e old, you have to be careful.
> > An old man is like an old tyre, and might be designed to stand the
> > pressure, but
> > maybe it'll burst. One never knows..."
> >
> > He died on his exercise bike at 91.
> >
> > What a man!
>
> This bloke was a bit of a *geezer* too:
>
> http://www.bikereader.com/contributors/woodland/murphy.html
>
> > That Nero was somethin.
>
> Quite tiny, standing next to it actually!
>
> >
> > IMHO, the Suzuki lacks the appeal of a large mainly amateur built v
> > twin.
>
> Of course...
>
> > In the old days they still had to learn that revs with an over square
> > engine that breathed well was the only way to real speed,
> > but when they built something to rev, old materials shattered too
> > easy,
> > and at 125mph, an engine seizure can make life very precarious.
>
> Today it's mostly a question of fuelling and ignition mapping - damn
> near anything'll do a hundred if set up for it!
>
> >
> > I'm now quite happy on my push bike, well away from the roads if
> > possible.
>
> **** bicycling - far too dangerous! ;-)

I'm now mainly into amplifiers, not motorcycles really, which are toys.

Bicycles amplify distance travelled by the leg.

But yes, bicycles are seen as not safe by many ppl.

But here we have many km of cycle paths well away from roads
so cycling is a real pleasure.

I keep fit on a bicycle, on a motobike or in my car
I just get fat.

Patrick Turner.

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 05:21 AM

MiNe 109 said:

[snippety-snippety-snip]

> > > George and Ringo are the least dislikable public figures. I respect
> > > John's wit, Paul's melodic gift, Ringo's rhythm and George's second
> > > career.

> > Never mind.

> George Martin's clavichord, Alan Civil's French Horn, etc. Or was this a
> Trots thing where he keeps probing until he finds an excuse to deride an
> opinion? Or a Cosmo quiz: What Your Fave Beatle Says About You.

Actually, I was just wondering which Beatle's music you liked best.
Songs written, songs sung, either in the band or post-breakup. My order
of preference:

1. George
2. Ringo
3. John
4. Paul

Your viewpoint on Beatleology seems ineluctably informed by your
professional (or is it avocational?) background. I was hoping you'd
guess my interest in the subject is shallower. Jenn would have known
that without my saying it. :-)

Keith G

August 24th 07, 12:20 PM

"Pat Pending, Australia's most prolific audio designer"
> wrote in message
...
>
>
> Keith G wrote:

>> **** bicycling - far too dangerous! ;-)

> But yes, bicycles are seen as not safe by many ppl.

I believe that, in the UK, both cycling and horse-riding are
*statistically* more dangerous than motorcycling...??

>
> But here we have many km of cycle paths well away from roads
> so cycling is a real pleasure.

When I was a kid I used to live in a village just outside a town called
Stevenage (where I went to school, home of the afore-mentioned Vincents
and named "****te Hoalle" in the Doomsday Book) and took great delight
in flying round its revolutionary, new and extensive cycle path system
on a pretty zippy little 50cc moped (which was allowed) like this one:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/mybikes/Raleigh%20Runabout.jpg

The hazards were the occasional walkers, busted bottles and the odd
breeze block that had been thrown from one of the many bridges (the
cycle track had many underpasses) but rate of progress through and
across the town was phenomenally quicker than by car!

See:

http://www.greatnorthway.org.uk/pages/guide02.html

for subtle clues...

>
> I keep fit on a bicycle, on a motobike or in my car
> I just get fat.

Trust me: You won't put on any weight chucking a quarter of a ton of
100+ bhp motorbike round the twisties in a *spririted* manner... :-)

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 03:55 PM

MiNe 109 said:

> I don't have much post-Beatles in the collection, but I have a George
> hits collection and a couple of Macca's, Band on the Run and Run Devil
> Run.

I just browsed Wiki for info about BotR. If I never hear most of those
songs again, it'll be too soon. Takes all kinds, I suppose (except
'borgs, who hate *all* music).

> Yes, I like "Jet"! Sure, lyrically it's no "Suffragette City" but
> it does rock.

At least you didn't stack it up against an Oasis song.

Speaking of "Suffragette City", is that a love song? I just looked up
the lyrics and frankly, it makes no more sense to me than when I tried
to decipher it from the audio. I would really benefit from a proper
music education.....

Dave Plowman (News)

August 24th 07, 05:19 PM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> I would really benefit from a proper music education.....

And an English one. An ellipsis has only three dots...

--
*Nostalgia isn't what is used to be.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 06:06 PM

Plowborg's ego is still stinging from yesterday's crushing defeat.

> > I would really benefit from a proper music education.....

> And an English one. An ellipsis has only three dots...

Speaking of bad English, there's no apparent reason to end your sentence
with an ellipsis. Also, you omitted the period. Have you ever heard the
phrase "style guide"? They have them in "bookstores" and online
"reference" sites. There's your vocab lesson for the day, you ignorant
slut.

Nobody respects a Kroopologist, Plowie. Do you imagine the afterlife is
populated exclusively by zit-picking nerds like yourself?

Dave Plowman (News)

August 24th 07, 06:46 PM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> Plowborg's ego is still stinging from yesterday's crushing defeat.

Crikey - your imagination is in hyperdrive.

> > > I would really benefit from a proper music education.....

> > And an English one. An ellipsis has only three dots...

> Speaking of bad English, there's no apparent reason to end your sentence
> with an ellipsis.

Yes there is - I've simply left the words 'you prat' to other's
imagination.

> Also, you omitted the period.

Compounding your ignorance?

> Have you ever heard the phrase "style guide"? They have them in
> "bookstores" and online "reference" sites. There's your vocab lesson for
> the day, you ignorant slut.

You consider yourself to have style? Is there no limit to your ego?

> Nobody respects a Kroopologist, Plowie. Do you imagine the afterlife is
> populated exclusively by zit-picking nerds like yourself?

Afterlife? You're one of those dreamers too? Figures.

--
*What was the best thing before sliced bread? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

George M. Middius

August 24th 07, 07:23 PM

Somebody's "mind" has been plowed under.

> > Plowborg's ego is still stinging from yesterday's crushing defeat.

> Crikey - your imagination is in hyperdrive.

Not at all. I smacked you around yesterday, and here you are today
picking the tiniest nit in the history of the sport.

> > > And an English one. An ellipsis has only three dots...

> > Speaking of bad English, there's no apparent reason to end your sentence
> > with an ellipsis.

> Yes there is - I've simply left the words 'you prat' to other's

Funny to see an uneducated boor lecturing others on usage. Andre Jute!
Andre Jute! If you're listening, would you mind explaining to Plowborg
how stupid he is?

> > Have you ever heard the phrase "style guide"? They have them in
> > "bookstores" and online "reference" sites. There's your vocab lesson for
> > the day, you ignorant slut.

> You consider yourself to have style? Is there no limit to your ego?

.... you ignorant slut...

> > Nobody respects a Kroopologist, Plowie. Do you imagine the afterlife is
> > populated exclusively by zit-picking nerds like yourself?

> Afterlife? You're one of those dreamers too? Figures.

.... with concrete where humans have their brains.

Are you too dense to realize how badly you screwed up your attempt to
upbraid me, Plowie? I'm betting you are. Better scurry off into the
shadows and practice denying your glaring mistakes. Insults fall flat
when they're based on solecisms. Hypocrisy, by contrast, stands out in
stark relief when the gas is let out of a distended bladder like you.

Jenn

August 25th 07, 01:25 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:

> MiNe 109 said:
>
> > I don't have much post-Beatles in the collection, but I have a George
> > hits collection and a couple of Macca's, Band on the Run and Run Devil
> > Run.
>
> I just browsed Wiki for info about BotR. If I never hear most of those
> songs again, it'll be too soon

You'll love these then ;-) Wings reunion. From a recent Las Vegas
Beatlefest. Interesting to see buddy LJ play electric again, as he
doesn't do that much these days.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Q4kiRBMnIs

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xcdcq4Qmu8Y

Jenn

August 25th 07, 04:11 AM

In article
>,
MiNe 109 > wrote:

> In article
>
> om>,
> Jenn > wrote:
>
> > In article >,
> > George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
> >
> > > MiNe 109 said:
> > >
> > > > I don't have much post-Beatles in the collection, but I have a George
> > > > hits collection and a couple of Macca's, Band on the Run and Run Devil
> > > > Run.
> > >
> > > I just browsed Wiki for info about BotR. If I never hear most of those
> > > songs again, it'll be too soon
> >
> > You'll love these then ;-) Wings reunion. From a recent Las Vegas
> > Beatlefest. Interesting to see buddy LJ play electric again, as he
> > doesn't do that much these days.
> >
> > http://youtube.com/watch?v=2Q4kiRBMnIs
> >
> > http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xcdcq4Qmu8Y
>
> Is that you singing along in the audience? :-)
>
> Sometime I forget Wings was a real group.
>
> Stephen

lol No, I wasn't there. I would have been the nerd in the front
silently watching the fingerings ;-)

Dave Plowman (News)

August 25th 07, 08:51 AM

In article >,
George M. Middius <cmndr _ george @ comcast . net> wrote:
[snip]

Congratulations on joining Allison in starting cross posted OT threads
just to slag off individuals.

If even half your intellect wasn't swamped by your ego you'd realise just
how pathetic this looks to pretty well everyone else.

--
*I started out with nothing, and I still have most of it*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

George M. Middius

August 25th 07, 03:09 PM

****y Plowborg throws in the towel.

> > Somebody's "mind" has been plowed under.

> > > > Plowborg's ego is still stinging from yesterday's crushing defeat.

> > > Crikey - your imagination is in hyperdrive.

> > Not at all. I smacked you around yesterday, and here you are today
> > picking the tiniest nit in the history of the sport.

> > > > > And an English one. An ellipsis has only three dots...

> > > > Speaking of bad English, there's no apparent reason to end your sentence
> > > > with an ellipsis.

> > > Yes there is - I've simply left the words 'you prat' to other's

> > Funny to see an uneducated boor lecturing others on usage. Andre Jute!
> > Andre Jute! If you're listening, would you mind explaining to Plowborg
> > how stupid he is?

> > > > Have you ever heard the phrase "style guide"? They have them in
> > > > "bookstores" and online "reference" sites. There's your vocab lesson for
> > > > the day, you ignorant slut.

> > > You consider yourself to have style? Is there no limit to your ego?

> > ... you ignorant slut...

> > > > Nobody respects a Kroopologist, Plowie. Do you imagine the afterlife is
> > > > populated exclusively by zit-picking nerds like yourself?

> > > Afterlife? You're one of those dreamers too? Figures.

> > ... with concrete where humans have their brains.

> > Are you too dense to realize how badly you screwed up your attempt to
> > upbraid me, Plowie? I'm betting you are. Better scurry off into the
> > shadows and practice denying your glaring mistakes. Insults fall flat
> > when they're based on solecisms. Hypocrisy, by contrast, stands out in
> > stark relief when the gas is let out of a distended bladder like you.

> Congratulations

Thanks, Plowie. I have to admit I wasn't the first to realize what an
idiot you are, but if I made the point so well that even you are
compelled to acknowledged it, I accept the laurels.