Tips for initial setup of sound reinforcement

[[email protected]]

I'd like to ask a question, since I could not find the answer I was
looking for by searching the NG. Our band is just starting to play,
and we need some tips on getting the most out of our equipment.

How does a pro tweak EQ, gain, effects, etc? I am mostly referring to
the order. I have these steps in mind and I'm not sure which order
they should be in. In addition, I'm looking for recommended baseline
EQ, crossover, etc. settings that are commonly used for various
instruments, boards, effects, and so on.

We are a 6-piece, with:

Drums/vox
Keys
Bass/vox
Guitar/vox
Guitar/vox
Lead vox

The equipment (as much as I remember):
Lexicon effects processor
Mackie CR-1605
Crossover
Subs
Mains
Monitors
Snake
Separate amps for subs, main and monitors

What order should we do this in? Are there any recommended baseline
settings? Are we missing anything?

Get instruments sounding good through the board by tweaking amps/DIs/
preamps/etc.
Refine mic placement.
Set approximate levels.
EQ each channel.
Make each channel as wet as it needs to be.
EQ mains.
Get satisfactory monitor mix.
Adjust crossover.

I know this is A LOT to ask, and I am admittedly a NOOB. So I would
like to express my appreciation in advance to anyone who would like to
help.

Regards,
CORK

[Scott Dorsey]

> wrote:
>
>How does a pro tweak EQ, gain, effects, etc? I am mostly referring to
>the order. I have these steps in mind and I'm not sure which order
>they should be in. In addition, I'm looking for recommended baseline
>EQ, crossover, etc. settings that are commonly used for various
>instruments, boards, effects, and so on.

Don't touch anything. Set everything flat, and turn the PA down completely.

Listen to the band play. Now, what is wrong? Usually the most blatant thing
is that you can't hear the vocals. Bring the vocals up so you can hear them
properly, and if necessary, EQ them until they sound natural. Now listen
to what else is wrong.

The PA system is there to fix deficiencies in the live sound. If the live
sound isn't loud enough, or the balances are wrong, or the tone is wrong,
the PA system can fix these things.

Your goal as a PA operator is to listen to the sound, decide what needs to
be fixed, and then do it.

Setting everything up according to a "recommended baseline" configuration
is a recipe for really awful sound. Every room is different, every band
is different.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[No Name]

Your questions are well beyond the scope of what can be covered in a
newsgroup
question for you

how did you come to amass all this without a clue as to what it is or even
the vaugest idea of what to do with it

the short answer for your question, get a live sound pro to come visit you
if your within 50 miles of syracuse NY I will do that for a case a serria
Nevada pale ale
george

[Eeyore]

wrote:

> I'd like to ask a question, since I could not find the answer I was
> looking for by searching the NG. Our band is just starting to play,
> and we need some tips on getting the most out of our equipment.

If you're up for it try asking in alt.audio.pro.live-sound

Graham

[Paul Stamler]

Get a copy of the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook and read it from cover
to cover, twice. You'll learn a lot of what you need to know there. Then
hire a pro to come set up for you and simultaneously explain everything he's
doing. (It'll almost certainly be a he.) Take copious notes. When you think
it sounds good, write down the settings of every single knob and slider.
They'll be different in different halls and on different nights, but that'll
at least give you a reasonable starting point.

Peace,
Paul

[Arny Krueger]

> wrote in message
ups.com

> I'd like to ask a question, since I could not find the
> answer I was looking for by searching the NG. Our band is
> just starting to play, and we need some tips on getting
> the most out of our equipment.
>
> How does a pro tweak EQ, gain, effects, etc? I am mostly
> referring to the order. I have these steps in mind and
> I'm not sure which order they should be in. In addition,
> I'm looking for recommended baseline EQ, crossover, etc.
> settings that are commonly used for various instruments,
> boards, effects, and so on.

How do you do with books?

Here's a really good one:

http://www.amazon.com/Sound-Reinforcement-Handbook-Gary-Davis/dp/0881889008

or just go to amazon.com and search for yamaha sound reinforcment handbook

[Yvan]

I got a case of Canadian(or whatever your preferance) for a soundman to come
by my jamspace in Russell, Ontario (20 minutes SE of Ottawa). I run a
regular jam Monday nights , sort of a social jam scene with many different
ameteur/pro musician freinds coming by, and my gear is slowly getting
better. I know I need better mikes etc (audio technica MBs on vocals and
shure 57/58 on drums, plus some odd cheepies) but I'm sure I can get better
sound out of my Soundcraft 200B, Phonic 30 Band SA/EQ , into Peavy 1200
running 1 1000W Yorkville Elite & 1 700W Ross Typhoon , and another Fender
2244 800W running a "wall" of cheepie speakers for drum monitors. I have
an Alesis Picoverb for the vocals. I'm recording the whole mess 4 track DAW
through Delta 66/ Omni, which I've been redistributing back to the players
every 6 months or so as an MP3 DVD. I'm pretty happy with the room sound
overall, but the recodings could certainly use work. I'm sure this sounds
pretty hack to a lot of you guys, but it is what it is , and every coupla
hundred bucks I can spare gets another piece, and I can tell you its getting
better all the time. Its a great hobby, and we all love to play music. I've
been forced into being soundman /frontman vocalist / rythm guitar /
percussionist and odd time bass player ( I started out being a drummer, but
have amassed 3 regular drummers), and I don't get enough time with the board
to get it set right. Its a pretty good room- home made Quonset hut (1/2
pipe style hanger - used to be a school bus garage) about 35' X 50' (@22 '
high at the peak with styfoam insulation, with plenty of clutter. I also got
some dozen old parcans and stuff for lighting that gives the room some good
character to groove in. Most dudes love it. Far from a recording studio, its
sort of a garage band gone ballistic setup. Oh , and its smoker freindly.
BTW anyone getting rid of some old high end gear cheap can run it by me.
On the wish list is more M-audio Delta cards, DI boxes, compessor/limiter ,
cables/ snakes/ congas / mikes. The list stretches on, speakers, amps,
instruments, effects, etc, etc. into dreams.....
Oh, and if anyone's interested in jamming, let me know. We're starting to
get pretty popular, but good people are always welcome , so long as they
don't mind sharing the spotlight on busy nights. We usually jam on classic
rock & blues, but it really depends on who's playing (and singing).

Molson's Awaiting
Cheers

> wrote in message
hlink.net...
> Your questions are well beyond the scope of what can be covered in a
> newsgroup
> question for you
>
> how did you come to amass all this without a clue as to what it is or even
> the vaugest idea of what to do with it
>
> the short answer for your question, get a live sound pro to come visit you
> if your within 50 miles of syracuse NY I will do that for a case a serria
> Nevada pale ale
> george
>

[No Name]

"Yvan" > wrote in message
...
>I got a case of Canadian(or whatever your preferance) for a soundman to
>come by my jamspace in Russell, Ontario (20 minutes SE of Ottawa).

sorry your too far away for the "freebie" visit
and also I am quite afraid to leave the USA seeing the way GW is ****ing on
the world and trying to tell them its just rain
George

[Yvan]

> wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> "Yvan" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I got a case of Canadian(or whatever your preferance) for a soundman to
>>come by my jamspace in Russell, Ontario (20 minutes SE of Ottawa).
>
> sorry your too far away for the "freebie" visit
> and also I am quite afraid to leave the USA seeing the way GW is ****ing
> on the world and trying to tell them its just rain
> George
>

That explains why my lawn's so yellow.
Thanks anyway George, but if you change your mind, its a pretty nice
place to visit (Ottawa/Montreal areas) and we're pretty US freindly here , I
don't know what you hear there. Great Icy Coooooolllllddd Beer!!

Cheers
Y

[No Name]

"Yvan" > wrote in message
...
> > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>>
>> "Yvan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>I got a case of Canadian(or whatever your preferance) for a soundman to
>>>come by my jamspace in Russell, Ontario (20 minutes SE of Ottawa).
>>
>> sorry your too far away for the "freebie" visit
>> and also I am quite afraid to leave the USA seeing the way GW is ****ing
>> on the world and trying to tell them its just rain
>> George
>>
>
> That explains why my lawn's so yellow.
> Thanks anyway George, but if you change your mind, its a pretty nice
> place to visit (Ottawa/Montreal areas) and we're pretty US freindly here ,
> I don't know what you hear there. Great Icy Coooooolllllddd Beer!!
>
> Cheers
> Y

I honeymooned in Ottawa(1990)
LOVED the city
though the HULL really intriged me
I was just afraid to unlock my doors, as I had my blushing bride with me
If I was solo I bet there was "real" fun to be found in those darkened
doorways
Peace
George

[Hayvern]

On Apr 12, 12:15 pm, wrote:
> I'd like to ask a question, since I could not find the answer I was
> looking for by searching the NG. Our band is just starting to play,
> and we need some tips on getting the most out of our equipment.
>
> How does a pro tweak EQ, gain, effects, etc? I am mostly referring to
> the order. I have these steps in mind and I'm not sure which order
> they should be in. In addition, I'm looking for recommended baseline
> EQ, crossover, etc. settings that are commonly used for various
> instruments, boards, effects, and so on.
>
> We are a 6-piece, with:
>
> Drums/vox
> Keys
> Bass/vox
> Guitar/vox
> Guitar/vox
> Lead vox
>
> The equipment (as much as I remember):
> Lexicon effects processor
> Mackie CR-1605
> Crossover
> Subs
> Mains
> Monitors
> Snake
> Separate amps for subs, main and monitors
>
> What order should we do this in? Are there any recommended baseline
> settings? Are we missing anything?
>
> Get instruments sounding good through the board by tweaking amps/DIs/
> preamps/etc.
> Refine mic placement.
> Set approximate levels.
> EQ each channel.
> Make each channel as wet as it needs to be.
> EQ mains.
> Get satisfactory monitor mix.
> Adjust crossover.
>
> I know this is A LOT to ask, and I am admittedly a NOOB. So I would
> like to express my appreciation in advance to anyone who would like to
> help.
>
> Regards,
> CORK

In short,

Main outs from the board are sent to the crossover. Depending on the
crossover, you will need two or more amplifiers to power the mains,
send the lows to the subs, send the highs to the mains. I have seen
some crossovers that are triamp only, means you need three power amps
to power them, but if your mains do not have seperate inputs for highs
and lows, then you will have to get creative. I have had some luck
recombining the highs and mids with a splitter cable. The die hards in
this forum will scoff, but you do with what you have.

You have to find out the ideal crossover frequency for your subs and
set your low crossover point.

I typically use the sends and returns on the board for effects, but
then again, I have always had the luxury of a monitor mixer. If you do
not have that luxury you might want to consider using the sub mixes
for this. There is nothing better than being able to supply different
monitor mixes than the mains, to do that you will need to use the aux
sends on the board. If you have enough for the monitors and the
effects, then you are all set.

The order that I use is to set the complete system up first, try to do
this before instrument amps are put into place, but if you can't then
you have to work around them. I use a Real Time analyzer to flatten
the system to the room, some rooms are more bass heavy and yet others
seem to scream high end. You will need 31 band EQs to do this, two of
them if you plan to run stereo. I usually plug these in after the
board, but before the crossover. You can do some research to find out
why and how you can do this.

Next I mic up the instrument amps and drums, and such. In live sound I
try and get the mics as close as I can to the sound source so I have
better control over each instrument. Placement of mics is too big of a
topic to put into this message, do some research and learn.

During sound check, I EQ each instrument as best as I can. Usually
starting with the bottom end instruments first. Consider it like
building a house, start with your foundation and move up from there.
Drums, Bass, Guitar, Keys, and then vocals on top. You can mix in
effects as you go if you like, but don't get too carried away with all
that at this point as you will likely make modifications when the
whole band plays.

This is just my way of doing it, others will likely say that I got
this wrong, or got that wrong, and that just goes to the fact that
there is more than one way to skin a cat, or mix a band. I have had
good results with this.

Probably the best piece of advice I can give you is to set all of this
up with a band before hand, make sure you have all the cabling you
need to make the connections and get all the kinks worked out before
the first gig. If you are doing this as your own band, nothing can be
more nerve racking to set all of this up the first time and find out
that you do not have enough speaker cables or mic cables, perhaps
there is a splitter that you need that you overlooked.

That should get you started.