Genelec S30 monitors as nearfileds?

[Iwont Tell]

Hello Hello...

A friend offered to sell me his old S30's. They are about twenenty
years old, a bit worn and in need of some repairing, but the on the
other hand the price was allright.

Tech support at Genelec said that the S30 aren't really suited for
close nearfield work and that they should be about 1.5m ( that's about
5 feet) from the listening position. I'm guessing at least half of
that distance would be useful between the speakers and and the wall.

My question is, was the tech guy right or only trying to sell me a
pair of 8020A with a subwoofer?

I only have a modest bedroom studio. I could mount them at about 3-4
feet away from where I sit, but probably only one foot or so from the
wall.


I don't have any decent monitoring as of now, so I'll need to buy
something anyway. If I don't settle for the Genelecs, I'll probably
look for something in the 500euro range-( thats about 670 dollars.)

TIA!

[Scott Dorsey]

Iwont Tell > wrote:
>
>A friend offered to sell me his old S30's. They are about twenenty
>years old, a bit worn and in need of some repairing, but the on the
>other hand the price was allright.

They are some of the best monitors I have ever used. I recommend them
at nearly any price.

>Tech support at Genelec said that the S30 aren't really suited for
>close nearfield work and that they should be about 1.5m ( that's about
>5 feet) from the listening position. I'm guessing at least half of
>that distance would be useful between the speakers and and the wall.

That's pretty much true. It would be true of anything about the same
size, though.

>My question is, was the tech guy right or only trying to sell me a
>pair of 8020A with a subwoofer?
>
>I only have a modest bedroom studio. I could mount them at about 3-4
>feet away from where I sit, but probably only one foot or so from the
>wall.

You will have low end problems if you do this. But then again, you'll
have low end problems with the 8020A too, or any other speaker. The
distance from the wall will make a huge difference in the low end response
of any speaker. And your distance from the speaker will change a lot
in the midrange. Speakers are just like that. Get good speakers, then
fix your room.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Apr 11, 1:54 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> Get good speakers, then fix your room.
>
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

This ought to be an audio mantra and certainly the short answer for
the FAQ.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[[email protected]]

On Apr 11, 1:54 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>
> Get good speakers, then fix your room.
>
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

This ought to be an audio mantra and the short answer for the FAQ.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Here In Oregon]

>> Get good speakers

www.dynaudioacoustics.com



> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Apr 11, 1:54 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>
>> Get good speakers, then fix your room.
>>
>> --scott
>> --
>> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
> This ought to be an audio mantra and the short answer for the FAQ.
>
> bobs
>
> Bob Smith
> BS Studios
> we organize chaos
> http://www.bsstudios.com
>

[Scott Dorsey]

Here In Oregon > wrote:
>>> Get good speakers
>
> www.dynaudioacoustics.com

I dunno, I'd put the S30s up against anything Dynaudio made. They are
voiced very differently than the rest of the Genelec lines. Very, very
clean treble and upper midrange. The low end is nothing to write home
about but doesn't have the pipe-organ resonances of the 1030 and 1031.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Roy W. Rising]

wrote:
> On Apr 11, 1:54 pm, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
> >
> > Get good speakers, then fix your room.
> >
> > --scott
> > --
> > "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
>
> This ought to be an audio mantra and the short answer for the FAQ.
>
> bobs
>
Here's something to think about.

Imagine yourself blindfolded in a very "dead" room. Someone you know
speaks. Would you recognize the voice? Now, imagine yourself still
blindfolded in a very "live" room. Again, someone you know speaks. Would
you recognize the voice?

Our hearing adapts to, and masks most of the acoustical anomalies in the
room. A highly accurate loudspeaker is similar to "the person you know".

The most offensive problem with monitors is placement with regard to walls,
ceilings, floors, etc. Low frequencies are doubled when a speaker is
against a wall (1/2 space). They double again in a wall/ceiling or
wall/wall corner (1/4 space). And yes, they double yet again in a
wall/wall/ceiling corner (1/8 space).

Manufacturers take this into account when they voice the lows. Be sure to
understand the maker's placement recommendations. I know of someone who
has speakers voiced for 1/4 space (less LF output) but they're in a 1/2
space placement. He muddies up his mixes because of the missing LF output!

When a monitor is a short distance away from a wall, low frequency
anomalies occur in the frequencies with wavelengths related to the
distance. "Nearfield" monitoring is dependent on being closer to the
speakers so the LF problems are less audible.

--
~ Roy
"If you notice the sound, it's wrong!"

[Iwont Tell]

>snip<

> >Tech support at Genelec said that the S30 aren't really suited for
> >close nearfield work and that they should be about 1.5m ( that's about
> >5 feet) from the listening position. I'm guessing at least half of
> >that distance would be useful between the speakers and and the wall.
>
> That's pretty much true. It would be true of anything about the same
> size, though.

>snip<

> >I only have a modest bedroom studio. I could mount them at about 3-4
> >feet away from where I sit, but probably only one foot or so from the
> >wall.

>snip<
> Get good speakers, then
> fix your room.
> --scott
> --


Thanks for all the input.
As I cant make the room any bigger than it is, it looks like I have to
forget about the S30's and go for something smaller.I have to take
some measurements first, though... if I put everything on wheels I
could put the desk in the middle of the room and then push it to a
wall when I'm not making music..

Is there a rule of thumb about the perpendicular distance from the
listener to the wall behind his back as compared to the distance to
the speakers?

Bye now.

[Scott Dorsey]

Iwont Tell > wrote:
>
>Thanks for all the input.
>As I cant make the room any bigger than it is, it looks like I have to
>forget about the S30's and go for something smaller.I have to take
>some measurements first, though... if I put everything on wheels I
>could put the desk in the middle of the room and then push it to a
>wall when I'm not making music..

Going to something smaller won't help you, it will just change the problems
you have.

>Is there a rule of thumb about the perpendicular distance from the
>listener to the wall behind his back as compared to the distance to
>the speakers?

Don't worry about the wall behind you, worry about what is in front of
you. You want to have your head making an equalateral triangle with the
speakers, and you want the speakers to be the correct distance from the
front wall to get good low end.

In a room the size you are working, do not expect to make accurate judgements
below maybe 150 Hz or so even under the best possible conditions.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Here In Oregon]

"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message

> I dunno, I'd put the S30s up against anything Dynaudio made. They are
> voiced very differently than the rest of the Genelec lines.

New parts for the S30's are where? And I am assuming we are talking about
the S30's and not the S30B, C, or D. And if they are still available how
long? Those puppies go way, way back.





...
> Here In Oregon > wrote:
>>>> Get good speakers
>>
>> www.dynaudioacoustics.com
>
> I dunno, I'd put the S30s up against anything Dynaudio made. They are
> voiced very differently than the rest of the Genelec lines. Very, very
> clean treble and upper midrange. The low end is nothing to write home
> about but doesn't have the pipe-organ resonances of the 1030 and 1031.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[soundmark[_2_]]

Woof!
Scott, I don't think I have ever seen you show your cards like this!

I like the S30's too. I think they are the only Genelecs I enjoy working on.

I would love to bring my BM6a's over your place....

soundmark

> They are some of the best monitors I have ever used. I recommend them
> at nearly any price.
> Get good speakers, then
> fix your room.
> --scott
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Scott Dorsey]

soundmark > wrote:
>Woof!
>Scott, I don't think I have ever seen you show your cards like this!
>
>I like the S30's too. I think they are the only Genelecs I enjoy working on.

The new 8000-series aren't bad. They still sound like monkey boxes, but
they are a very big step up from the older series. What is interesting
is that they are all pretty much voiced the same, whereas the older series
had a huge range of tonal differences across the line.

The S30 has a far, far less colored midrange than any of their other line,
and really less colored than any horn or dome tweeter box I have heard.

>I would love to bring my BM6a's over your place....

Give me another couple of years to deal with the room issues first. It's
still not right here. Admittedly the rear lobes on the maggies are making
the room problems worse.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[soundmark[_2_]]

How about 4" of Thermafiber on the wall behind your monitor position? Itll
even it right out...

$48 for a 8 banger of 2x4 panels here in Norfolk.

A little burlap and spray glue and you are in bass absorption heaven.

maybe

soundmark


"Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
...
> soundmark > wrote:
>>Woof!
>>Scott, I don't think I have ever seen you show your cards like this!
>>
>>I like the S30's too. I think they are the only Genelecs I enjoy working
>>on.
>
> The new 8000-series aren't bad. They still sound like monkey boxes, but
> they are a very big step up from the older series. What is interesting
> is that they are all pretty much voiced the same, whereas the older series
> had a huge range of tonal differences across the line.
>
> The S30 has a far, far less colored midrange than any of their other line,
> and really less colored than any horn or dome tweeter box I have heard.
>
>>I would love to bring my BM6a's over your place....
>
> Give me another couple of years to deal with the room issues first. It's
> still not right here. Admittedly the rear lobes on the maggies are making
> the room problems worse.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[soundmark[_2_]]

By the way, can I use your term "monkey boxes" in the future? I love it.

soundmark

[Scott Dorsey]

soundmark > wrote:
>By the way, can I use your term "monkey boxes" in the future? I love it.

It's not mine. I think I first heard it from Corey Greenburg at Stereophile,
years ago. I am sure he'd like more people using it.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[Iwont Tell]

> "Scott Dorsey" > wrote in message
>snip<
>
> New parts for the S30's are where? And I am assuming we are talking about
> the S30's and not the S30B, C, or D. And if they are still available how
> long? Those puppies go way, way back.

>snip<

Like I said, about twenty years old or so. I think the model is the
first one.

The person who offered to sell his speakers to me bought them
secondhand a few years back from one of YLE's studios, YLE being the
national broadcasting company here in Finland. Thats' where I live.


I understood that they were sold because Genelec no longer could
guarantee support for that particular model. However, when I E-mailed
tech support, they offered to fix them right up to original specs.
Alternatively, they could sell me some new cones. So apparently parts
are still available . Dunno if Genelec will ship parts overseas,
though.

Also, my pal mentioned cones from some other manufacturer, Peerless I
think it was, that might actually be identical to the ones used in the
S30.

I did some measurements in the intended studio. After reading such
nice things about these speakers, I've decided the room is just big
enough. At least I'm gonna give the speakers a try.
If it then seems worth it, I'll take them to the Genelec factory in
Iisalmi and have them repaired.


On Apr 16, 8:53 pm, "soundmark" > wrote:

> How about 4" of Thermafiber on the wall behind your monitor position? Itll
> even it right out...
>snip<

I guess, in a small room like the one I use, that would be a good idea
too.


Bye now.

[Willie K. Yee, MD[_3_]]

On 16 Apr 2007 14:01:19 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

>soundmark > wrote:
>>By the way, can I use your term "monkey boxes" in the future? I love it.
>
>It's not mine. I think I first heard it from Corey Greenburg at Stereophile,
>years ago. I am sure he'd like more people using it.
>--scott
>--

Can I have it for my studio name?

[Scott Dorsey]

Willie K. Yee, MD <please@nospam> wrote:
>On 16 Apr 2007 14:01:19 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:
>>soundmark > wrote:
>>>By the way, can I use your term "monkey boxes" in the future? I love it.
>>It's not mine. I think I first heard it from Corey Greenburg at Stereophile,
>>years ago. I am sure he'd like more people using it.
>
>Can I have it for my studio name?

Maybe if you have Altec monitors.
--scott

--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

[[email protected]]

On Apr 16, 9:31 am, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> The new 8000-series aren't bad. They still sound like monkey boxes, but
> they are a very big step up from the older series. What is interesting
> is that they are all pretty much voiced the same, whereas the older series
> had a huge range of tonal differences across the line.
> --scott
>
> --
> "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

The similar voicing between the 8000 series is part of what I like
about them. One can have 8040s on the desk and carry 8030s to the
field without too much fuss going back and forth between monitors
other than the bass. Bass shy field monitors are often actually useful
when stuck in corners and other questionable acoustic spaces to
record.

bobs

Bob Smith
BS Studios
we organize chaos
http://www.bsstudios.com

[Willie K. Yee, MD[_3_]]

On 18 Apr 2007 10:47:01 -0400, (Scott Dorsey) wrote:

> "monkey boxes"
>>Can I have it for my studio name?
>
>Maybe if you have Altec monitors.
>--scott

I have (I think) worse. Will that do?